Buy a plane or get instrument rating first?

TexasAviation

TexasAviation

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TexasAviation
Which would you do first: buy an airplane, or get your instrument rating?

I've had my PPL for a little over a year and have been saving up for a plane. My thought is that I'll buy a plane and then do my instrument training in it. I figured that would make me more comfortable with my aircraft since I'm training in it and learning on its equipment specifically.

But lately I've been wondering if I'm doing that backwards. My instructor thinks I should get the IR now so I can get the safety/utility benefits from it right away. It would make me a better pilot and the transition to my own plane would be relatively easy, he says.
 
Is he the same one renting you the airplane? If so he may be wanting to max out his profits from you. I purchased a Cessna 150 to get my PPL then sold it later down the road when my family outgrew it. I'm so glad I had it during my flight training. After getting signed off for solo work, it was so much easier to run out to the airport and practice any time I liked. I know your situation is a little different working on your IFR ticket, but I think the same idea applies. It is so nice having your own plane to fly anytime you like assuming you have done your homework and understand the costs involved with ownership, can afford it and you are comfortable with that.
 
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TexasAviation said:
Which would you do first: buy an airplane, or get your instrument rating?

I've had my PPL for a little over a year and have been saving up for a plane. My thought is that I'll buy a plane and then do my instrument training in it. I figured that would make me more comfortable with my aircraft since I'm training in it and learning on its equipment specifically.

But lately I've been wondering if I'm doing that backwards. My instructor thinks I should get the IR now so I can get the safety/utility benefits from it right away. It would make me a better pilot and the transition to my own plane would be relatively easy, he says.
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I may be wrong, but what your CFI is suggesting makes no sense to me. Unless you are trying to get a plane that may have IR as insurance requirement or something in that sense. Or you can't find what you want for a long time... I guess you can start IR in a rental and then switch when you get your own. Maybe this is what he meant.

You are a pilot. You can/will learn to fly your new plane with CFI pretty quickly and then you can focus learning IR on it. There is no sense in learning with something you are not intending to use in the future.
 
MickYoumans said:
Is he the same one renting you the airplane? If so he may be wanting to max out his profits from you. I purchased a Cessna 150 to get my PPL then sold it later down the road when my family outgrew it. I'm so glad I had it during my flight training. After getting signed off for solo work, it was so much easier to run out to the airport and practice any time I liked. I know your situation is a little different working on your IFR ticket, but I think the same idea applies. It is so nice having your own plane to fly anytime you like assuming you have done your homework and understand the costs involved with ownership and can afford and you are comfortable with it.
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I agree with the above. I chose to put off my instrument training until I had my own airplane. With rental aircraft I always had trust issues with the equipment. I would rather have my own and know it's maintenance history and that goes double with flying into actual IFR. With my own airplane everything worked properly or it was fixed ASAP.
 
Sounds like my situation just over a year ago. I had my PPL for about 2 years when I decided (simultaneously) it was time to get my instrument rating and buy and airplane.

Here I am a year later and I still don't have my instrument rating. That's not the plane's fault though, I just can't seem to find an instructor willing to fly at 9pm on weekends!! If I had known then what my life would be like now, I still would have gone through with the purchase because it's truly a cost-saving way to go. When you have to pay for a rental and an CFII, it starts to add up FAST. If you are able to afford your own plane, there should be no arguments against it.

The one thing is, you can lower your insurance rates if you have an instrument rating from the beginning. But once you do get that rating, you'll be able to adjust your policy at the next renewal.
 
Definitely get your own plane first. IFR is a heavy workload. Being totally comfortable with all of your avionics, as well as the plane itself will make it that much less work when you start your training. And you'll also be getting practice, with a CFII, in the plane that you'll be flying into actual after you get your rating. That alone makes it a smart decision to buy first.

I bought in the middle of my PPL training. I was all set to go straight into IR training after getting my PPL, but a couple of XC flights made me realize that I had a lot to learn about my aircraft before starting IR. So I've put it off for a year. I want to become a great VFR pilot before I try to become an IFR pilot.
 
MickYoumans said:
Is he the same one renting you the airplane?
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Sort of. He's the president of the flying club I rent the plane from (a volunteer position), so he doesn't benefit personally from my rental of the plane. But the club does. And if I picked him as my CFII, he'd benefit from that, obviously.

But I'm more interested in this as a general principle. Put another way, is it better to delay getting your instrument rating or delay getting your airplane? Which should be the priority?

Where I live in northeast Texas, I've had to scrub a few flights due to the weather. A lot of those would be easy IFR days with just a thin layer to punch through, or even marginal VFR days where I just don't want to find myself scud running. The IR ticket would be super useful for me.

But I've had to scrub even more flights (or more accurately, just not been able to schedule a flight) because of airplane availability. I've wanted to scream "I need my own plane!" more often than I can count. Just ask my wife :)

I know the costs involved and am prepared for that. I'm more conservative with money than a lot of people (planning to save up $60k before buying my first plane for around $40k, so I'll have a $20k engine/maintenance fund right off the bat if needed. Plus I know what to expect for ongoing expenses).
 
rachelk.tailwinds said:
The one thing is, you can lower your insurance rates if you have an instrument rating from the beginning. But once you do get that rating, you'll be able to adjust your policy at the next renewal.
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You don't even have to wait for the next renewal. They'll change it mid-term.
 
As someone who flies IFR for a living, by all means get YOUR plane and learn IFR on YOUR panel and YOUR equipment.

Only thing I'd make sure of, if you're actually going to be flying IMC, not just IFR, be sure you're getting a /G plane with a garmin (GNS or GTN), be sure you have a HSI or EHSI, be sure you get a good autopilot with altitude hold and GPSS at a minimum, and make sure your OAT gauge and all other equipment works on the prebuy.

IMHO a prebuy on a IFR plane should involve proving on the test flight that it can shoot all the approaches it's advertised equipment should permit.
 
Why not do both? The IFR is much easier in your own plane.
 
Plane hands down in my opinion.

You will fly a LOT more with your own plane VFR vs an IFR ticket with no plane.

...then you can work on you IFR as finances allow.

If purchase is in the cards in the near future anyway no reason to throw that money away paying for a rental during IFR training.
 
I'm building the hood and x-c time for my IR still and own. I'd much rather do it in my plane than rent.
 
Lots of people own a plane and get enjoyment and utility without venturing onto IFR.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I am with the "obtain your own airplane" first group.

Many reasons why, but mailing for the reasons Jean (Maverick) mentioned.
 
MickYoumans said:
Is he the same one renting you the airplane? If so he may be wanting to max out his profits from you. I purchased a Cessna 150 to get my PPL then sold it later down the road when my family outgrew it. I'm so glad I had it during my flight training. After getting signed off for solo work, it was so much easier to run out to the airport and practice any time I liked. I know your situation is a little different working on your IFR ticket, but I think the same idea applies. It is so nice having your own plane to fly anytime you like assuming you have done your homework and understand the costs involved with ownership, can afford it and you are comfortable with that.
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This is the truth right here.
I bought a C150 to train my wife and by far it was the best way to go. When it came time to sell it I had a student pilot come in with his A&P to look at it. The A&P said oh no you shouldn't buy this plane because of all sorts of BS reasons. I was selling a 600 smoh C150 for 14k which was ugly but in great shape mechanically and would have been a great plane for the guy. Turned out the guys A&P was also renting him one of his personal C150's at the time... The guy was too naive to know he was getting the shaft.

To the OP, absolutely buy now and train in the plane you want. It will be cheaper and you will be more comfortable in your own plane when you are done.
 
I was on my second plane when I did my IR in it. It was great to train in my own plane.
 
Seriously dude? Get a freakin' airplane. I wouldn't have even had to start this thread. :D
 
TexasAviation said:
Where I live in northeast Texas, I've had to scrub a few flights due to the weather. A lot of those would be easy IFR days with just a thin layer to punch through, or even marginal VFR days where I just don't want to find myself scud running. The IR ticket would be super useful for me.

But I've had to scrub even more flights (or more accurately, just not been able to schedule a flight) because of airplane availability. I've wanted to scream "I need my own plane!" more often than I can count. Just ask my wife :)
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I think you have answered your own delima. If you have scrubbed more flights due to availability instead of weather, I would certainly get my own airplane first, no question about it. As I aluded to in my first post and others have agreed, there is nothing like training and/or flying in your own plane. I know my airplane backwards and forwards. I know what it sounds like. I know what it feels like. I know how the controls and instrumentation are laid out. I know how she is maintained. I know how the radios and audio panel operate. Last but not least, I know how she handles. When you get in a rental.....you never know what to expect....you just hope for the best.
 
Devil's advocate here - Buying an airplane isn't something that happens overnight. Think about how long you'll have to put down instrument training until you get into your own plane. I'm not saying it's not a great idea to train in your own plane, but it may take long enough to find an airplane that you'll have time to get an instrument rating before you complete the purchase.
 
take it from someone who doesn't own a plane, isn't instrument rated and isn't IFR training.....buy the plane first if it's all within your means. it's what eman1200 hopes to do one day too.
 
Agree with those who say buy the airplane first.. Buy and train in the airplane you'll be flying IFR. Knowing it inside and out is important for IFR.
 
Funny... I actually had my instrument checkride a week or so before I closed on my plane. I tried to coincide them... it brings insurance costs down. It also frees you up to get checked out in the plane if need be.
 
Only thing I'd make sure of, if you're actually going to be flying IMC, not just IFR, be sure you're getting a /G plane with a garmin (GNS or GTN), be sure you have a HSI or EHSI, be sure you get a good autopilot with altitude hold and GPSS at a minimum, and make sure your OAT gauge and all other equipment works on the prebuy.
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James is giving you great advice. You can add ADS-B to an airplane like this reasonably. For single pilot IFR, an autopilot is a great addition.
 
aggie06 said:
Devil's advocate here - Buying an airplane isn't something that happens overnight. Think about how long you'll have to put down instrument training until you get into your own plane. I'm not saying it's not a great idea to train in your own plane, but it may take long enough to find an airplane that you'll have time to get an instrument rating before you complete the purchase.
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I was kind, sorta looking for an airplane to buy to train my son in. On Thursday December 24 I heard about an airplane for sale. Saturday December 26 I saw the airplane for the first time. On Monday December 28 I made an offer. On Tuesday December 29 (today) the offer was accepted. On Friday January 1st I take possession (an annual inspection will be done between now and then).

Not exactly overnight, true but it doesn't take long to buy an airplane (unless you're Ben).
 
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Seems like (unless I missed it) nobody has asked what you use a plane for or plan to. If your going on trips where waiting out the weather isn't always an option then the IR is pretty important. Or are most of your flights just for fun or trips that don't have to happen and the IR is a nice to have or just the next logical thing?
 
KLRDMD said:
I was kind, sorta looking for an airplane to buy to train my son in. On Thursday December 24 I heard about an airplane for sale. Saturday December 26 I saw the airplane for the first time. On Monday December 28 I made an offer. On Tuesday December 29 (today) the offer was accepted. On Friday January 1st I take possession (an annual inspection will be done between now and then).

Not exactly overnight, true but it doesn't take long to buy an airplane (unless you're Ben).
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and we forgive you, this time, for not posting any pics. so, post some pics already!

...and congrats!
 
I did a ifr accelerated course and used his plane. I owned a Columbia at the time and he owned a warrior. My thinking was that he wasn't as familiar maybe with glass panel and he and the dpe he used were more familiar with the warrior. I had never flown a warrior before but, I enjoyed the warrior and it's slow approach speed gave me more time to relax. Figured if his plane broke we could use mine then. If you are having a dispatch problem then maybe buying your own plane first might be good, but, I wouldn't stop training just because you want your own plane first. One thing also, is you might decide after ifr training you want certain avionics or autopilot. Even faster more advanced airplane. I fly on a ifr flight plan almost all the time these days and am constantly moving either a step up or over on my airplanes these days. I now have the airplane I have been the most happy with so far. My list of what I wanted grew some after I got my ifr ticket. Fiki, pressurization, retract,(for landing on grass) and different avionics.
 
KLRDMD said:
I was kind, sorta looking for an airplane to buy to train my son in. On Thursday December 24 I heard about an airplane for sale. Saturday December 26 I saw the airplane for the first time. On Monday December 28 I made an offer. On Tuesday December 29 (today) the offer was accepted. On Friday January 1st I take possession (an annual inspection will be done between now and then).

Not exactly overnight, true but it doesn't take long to buy an airplane (unless you're Ben).
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:yikes::rofl::rofl::rofl:

btw...:needpics:
 
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KLRDMD said:
I was kind, sorta looking for an airplane to buy to train my son in. On Thursday December 24 I heard about an airplane for sale. Saturday December 26 I saw the airplane for the first time. On Monday December 28 I made an offer. On Tuesday December 29 (today) the offer was accepted. On Friday January 1st I take possession (an annual inspection will be done between now and then).

Not exactly overnight, true but it doesn't take long to buy an airplane (unless you're Ben).
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Agreeing with KLRDMD, I've owned four planes (all separately/none at the same time) and from deciding to purchase ANY plane to purchasing EACH plane, I spent on average 10 days looking for a plane to purchasing. My current plane took me about a month, and was my longest search.


Now selling a plane...that's a different story...


BTW, did you see (my) nice IFR trainer Cessna 150 for sale in the classified section? (self promotion here, lol)
 
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I did somewhat of a customized "accelerated" thing with Jesse and enjoyed it. Documented elsewhere in the site.

I don't think you could go wrong doing that with any of the conscientious CFIs that participate here.

I think the accelerated thing is very student specific. Some people prefer it, others want a different pace. I liked it for the nearly absent possibility for distractions. I "only" got called by work three times during the week-ish long stint out of town, and the leaving town thing helped a lot with that.
 
denverpilot said:
I did somewhat of a customized "accelerated" thing with Jesse and enjoyed it. Documented elsewhere in the site.

I don't think you could go wrong doing that with any of the conscientious CFIs that participate here.

I think the accelerated thing is very student specific. Some people prefer it, others want a different pace. I liked it for the nearly absent possibility for distractions. I "only" got called by work three times during the week-ish long stint out of town, and the leaving town thing helped a lot with that.
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After taking 23 years from start to finish for my PPL, I said I would never take the long route again and would do accelerated courses after that. Then less than a year after after getting my PPL I did a 2 week accelerated and got my IFR ticket. It's the only way to go for me.
 
I bought my plane first. Doing my instrument training in my plane made me very comfortable with it.
 
Flygirl,

How can you live in NC and 'dropped in on' all those states surrounding but missed GA? lol.
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"Flyover country" :)
 
I have owned 12 planes in the past 12 years.
I do not have a IFR ticket and will never get one.
Instructors love pushing you into the IFR stuff.
I enjoyed aerobatic lessons more than IFR lessons.
 
Ok I am going to be the minority here and say "it depends" but I vote for IR first......

Got my PPL then started my IR the next year, but had no idea what plane I should purchase to fit my skill level or actual missions (not the ones we all dream of doing :rolleyes: but missions we actually end up doing) .

I had an AA5B Tiger available to rent $120/hr wet with G430W, Stec30 AP and had a friend with a PA32-200 with G430w and Century AP I could use for gas money. So between the two I experienced technical differences and got a lot of hours (about 200 hours) while getting my IR.

In that same time I also joined a flying club with access to a Mooney and cessna 177 so I could compare planes on actual trips (hourly wet rate was about $95-110/hr) and see how they handled approaches.

BUT I am so glad I waited to purchase until AFTER my IR and the added time in other planes. If I matched my purchase with comfort level at that stage of training I would just have purchased the 180hp Tiger and missed out on figuring out what plane I really wanted for an IFR traveling platform and why.

By this process I stepped into what I feel is my last plane first and did it at my pace. I may be what some call chicken or wus for not just purchasing the 300 hp Bonanza V35B (I currently own) to train for my IR with only having 130 PIC hours under my belt (I felt this would be a little cavalier ). But I am now comfortable in it and it fits my missions perfectly unlike the plane I would have purchased when I started my IR training.

So the rental/flying club experience played an important roll in raising my competency and experience level in different planes so I didn't end up looking for the next plane shortly after purchasing the first one.
 
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MyassisDragon said:
Ok I am going to be the minority here and say "it depends" but I vote for IR first......

Got my PPL then started my IR the next year, but had no idea what plane I should purchase to fit my skill level or actual missions (not the ones we all dream of doing :rolleyes: but missions we actually end up doing) .

I had an AA5B Tiger available to rent $120/hr wet with G430W, Stec30 AP and had a friend with a PA32-200 with G430w and Century AP I could use for gas money. So between the two I experienced technical differences and got a lot of hours (about 200 hours) while getting my IR.

In that same time I also joined a flying club with access to a Mooney and cessna 177 so I could compare planes on actual trips (hourly wet rate was about $95-110/hr) and see how they handled approaches.

BUT I am so glad I waited to purchase until AFTER my IR and the added time in other planes. If I matched my purchase with comfort level at that stage of training I would just have purchased the 180hp Tiger and missed out on figuring out what plane I really wanted for an IFR traveling platform and why.

By this process I stepped into what I feel is my last plane first and did it at my pace. I may be what some call chicken or wus for not just purchasing the 300 hp Bonanza V35B (I currently own) to train for my IR with only having 130 PIC hours under my belt (I felt this would be a little cavalier ). But I am now comfortable in it and it fits my missions perfectly unlike the plane I would have purchased when I started my IR training.

So the rental/flying club experience played an important roll in raising my competency and experience level in different planes so I didn't end up looking for the next plane shortly after purchasing the first one.
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So what if he really wants to fly a Pitts upside down and wastes his money on a IR instead? My instructor pushed and pushed for me to start my IFR stuff. That is not my cup of tea.
I bought a 172, flew it for a year and got bored. I sold it and got a Decathlon and started having fun!
Now I have a boring 172, J-3 Cub and a Pitts Model 12. I could care less about a IR.
Just saying everyone is different. Sounds like the instructor is saying you gotta get a IR.....
 
Plane first. Build hours and experience. If you get a good IFR capable plane, you can do your IR training in it. I bought a 2-seater a month after getting my ticket, put 4 years on it, then traded up to a 4-seat to do my IR training in. Still flying it today, 25+ years later. Definitely plane first.
 
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