Busted Bravo

B

buster_b

Guest
Class B shelf = 3000
My altitude = 3400
For about 3nm in the most outer ring of B, for less than a minute.
Reason for bust = distracted looking at approach plate (stupid)

I was talking to Class D tower the whole time, and at that moment, inbound for pattern work then landing. Did 3 laps in traffic pattern before full stop - tower never said anything to me. I have no idea whether anyone is chasing me down or not.

I filed NASA ASRS. Any other actions I should take?
Thoughts?
 
I think if they planned on calling you out, they would have by the time you landed.
 
Nope. Wait and see if someone contacts you and if they do, take the time to get some advice based on the nature of the contact before responding.
 
If you were talking to the D tower while you inadvertently busted and they never mentioned it, it's likely you will be fine.

You filed an ASRS and that's all you can do. If they do get a hold of you down the road via your N number, tell them what happened and chances are they'll give you a slap on the wrist and you'll be on your way.
 
Sac Arrow said:
I think if they planned on calling you out, they would have by the time you landed.
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I'm tempted to agree. That's usually the case, and it probably applies to this situation.

But there is an issue floating around the FAA about when when Pilots Bill of Rights notification is required, even at an early stage. I don't know the exact status of it but I can see ATC deciding to be more circumspect with a "Take down this number; call the Tower" reaction.
 
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Perhaps he was doing a practice approach in VMC, working with the tower instead of approach?

Conversely, EVERYONE in the plane had a good belly laugh when we heard:
Approach, Bugfood 987, am I cleared for the Bravo?
Bugfood 987, I show you IFR, why are you asking this?
 
Nineteen Cessnas busting a bravo, nineteen Cessnas busting a bravo, take one down, pass it around, eighteen.........
 
Bust my Class B huh...hmphhh...we'll get ya next time sucker!

Bomarc.jpe
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rolivi said:
Perhaps he was doing a practice approach in VMC, working with the tower instead of approach?

Conversely, EVERYONE in the plane had a good belly laugh when we heard:
Approach, Bugfood 987, am I cleared for the Bravo?
Bugfood 987, I show you IFR, why are you asking this?
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Reminds me of a conversation I had with Boston Approach after a hand-off from a different sector:

Approach: 38W cleared direct Mansfield (which would put us right through the center of the Boston Bravo)
Me: Am I cleared into the Class Bravo?
Approach: You're IFR, correct?
Me: Negative, we're VFR
Approach (sounding a little confused): 38W cleared into Class Bravo at 4500 feet

I'm not even instrument rated and I was on Flight Following at 4500 feet.
 
MassPilot said:
Reminds me of a conversation I had with Boston Approach after a hand-off from a different sector:

Approach: 38W cleared direct Mansfield (which would put us right through the center of the Boston Bravo)
Me: Am I cleared into the Class Bravo?
Approach: You're IFR, correct?
Me: Negative, we're VFR
Approach (sounding a little confused): 38W cleared into Class Bravo at 4500 feet

I'm not even instrument rated and I was on Flight Following at 4500 feet.
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Getting my entire instrument rating nowhere near a class b airport, my first time entering SF class B airspace, I asked atc if I was cleared....
 
TheGolfPilot said:
Getting my entire instrument rating nowhere near a class b airport, my first time entering SF class B airspace, I asked atc if I was cleared....
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On the flip side, there are several instrument approaches around the region with segments inside the SFO Class B, so if you're doing VFR practice approaches, a B clearance may be needed. KHAF (north side) and KCCR (south and west sides) come to mind.
 
MAKG1 said:
On the flip side, there are several instrument approaches around the region with segments inside the SFO Class B, so if you're doing VFR practice approaches, a B clearance may be needed. KHAF (north side) and KCCR (south and west sides) come to mind.
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Would be really nice to have an approach to 1L and a DP to the Sunol intersection... I'll keep dreaming
 
buster_b said:
I was talking to Class D tower the whole time, and at that moment, inbound for pattern work then landing. Did 3 laps in traffic pattern before full stop - tower never said anything to me. I have no idea whether anyone is chasing me down or not.

I filed NASA ASRS. Any other actions I should take?
Thoughts?
Click to expand...

If they noticed or cared enough they would have made contact through the Delta tower you were talking to. They are not necessarily itching to track you down like a trigger happy cop if you did not create a problem and immediately corrected. Alarms do not go off at ATC when you cross that line and you have to assume the the dude that was staring at the screen for the past however long cared enough to make an incident out of it...you got lucky. Willing to bet at most you got a "dumb ass" off mic by the ATC controller if he even noticed!

Go forth, say 10 Hail Mary's, and bust no more.
 
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I wonder if, when ADS-B out is standard, whether folks will be able to "get away" with this kind of thing? Like, now, ATC would have to do a little detective work to find tail number, etc., but with ADS-B it's probably just pushing a button or might even be an automated process which results in your tail number being sent to the local FSDO with a system-generated incident report or something.

Edit: My point, to the guy who posted this thread, is that you should get all the bravo-busting out of your system now - before 2020.
 
It's worth mentioning on this thread that based on new compliance philosophy guidance to FAA inspectors, an inadvertent first-time bust of class B airspace is unlikely to result in more than counseling with an inspector (i.e. no certificate action).
 
Brad Z said:
It's worth mentioning on this thread that based on new compliance philosophy guidance to FAA inspectors, an inadvertent first-time bust of class B airspace is unlikely to result in more than counseling with an inspector (i.e. no certificate action).
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Yep,
 
A couple of years ago, I launched from a little airport under the Indy Charlie airspace and was quickly climbing up to 2500, which is where I typically fly in NJ to stay under the outer ring of the NY Bravo. I was about 2300 when I checked my chart and saw the floor of the outer ring was 2100. I dropped down to 2000 as fast as safely possible. Once clear of the Charlie, I called Indy Departure for flight following. They didn't say a thing. I filled an ASAR anyway and never got a call.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk
 
This past weekend I was flying around with flight following and directed to stay clear of the Delta Airspace. A little while later the approach controller came on and asked me to keep an eye out for a tail dragger # XXXXXX coming up behind me. He wasn't talking to him but somehow knew his tail number. Turns out he busted the Delta airspace by flying directly over midfield at about 1000 AGL. About an hour and a half later he did the exact same thing on his return flight. I have a feeling that guy got himself into some trouble.
 
Flying Phanatic said:
He wasn't talking to him but somehow knew his tail number. Turns out he busted the Delta airspace by flying directly over midfield at about 1000 AGL. About an hour and a half later he did the exact same thing on his return flight. I have a feeling that guy got himself into some trouble.
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Must've been ID'ed beforehand. It's likely he either got a phone call later that day or he'll find a letter in his mailbox in a few weeks.
 
I must have busted bravo half a dozen times in the past 25 years. Never heard from anybody about any of them.
 
Flying Phanatic said:
This past weekend I was flying around with flight following and directed to stay clear of the Delta Airspace. A little while later the approach controller came on and asked me to keep an eye out for a tail dragger # XXXXXX coming up behind me. He wasn't talking to him but somehow knew his tail number. Turns out he busted the Delta airspace by flying directly over midfield at about 1000 AGL. About an hour and a half later he did the exact same thing on his return flight. I have a feeling that guy got himself into some trouble.
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Yeah but he has a couple great pictures of that Class B airport on his wall, framed! ;)
 
Flying Phanatic said:
This past weekend I was flying around with flight following and directed to stay clear of the Delta Airspace. A little while later the approach controller came on and asked me to keep an eye out for a tail dragger # XXXXXX coming up behind me. He wasn't talking to him but somehow knew his tail number. Turns out he busted the Delta airspace by flying directly over midfield at about 1000 AGL. About an hour and a half later he did the exact same thing on his return flight. I have a feeling that guy got himself into some trouble.
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May be a known....ahhh.... how can I say this.... character. One of those who won't let anyone tell him how or where to fly his plane. I have met a few of them. They lost their certificates years ago but still flying. They also have a trash barrel full of letters from the FAA.... all unopened.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Why?
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To fully answer that would require posting my ASRS reports, but they all probably boil down to getting distracted by tasks other than airspace avoidance. A contributing factor is that almost all of them were before I had a moving map GPS available to me.
 
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