Burning Oil Dangerous?

VWGhiaBob

VWGhiaBob

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VWGhiaBob
Our club's otherwise fantastic Saratoga is burning about 2 quarts of oil per hour. We are scheduling it for a top overhaul.

In the meantime, any opinions out there about whether or not it's safe to fly? Our members are still flying it and it runs great...they just take lots of oil. I'm not so sure...what if the oil gets too low during a longer flight?

Am I being overly cautious?
 
Is it really burning 2 per hour, or is it doing what all Lycomings do, and blowing the first 2 quarts out? If you start at 6 quarts (you can go as low as 3) and fly an hour are you down to 4? Or is it if you start at 12 quarts and fly an hour you are down to 10?
 
EdFred said:
Is it really burning 2 per hour, or is it doing what all Lycomings do, and blowing the first 2 quarts out? If you start at 6 quarts (you can go as low as 3) and fly an hour are you down to 4? Or is it if you start at 12 quarts and fly an hour you are down to 10?
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A quick look at the belly of the plane will confirm that...:yes:...;)
 
EdFred said:
Is it really burning 2 per hour, or is it doing what all Lycomings do, and blowing the first 2 quarts out? If you start at 6 quarts (you can go as low as 3) and fly an hour are you down to 4? Or is it if you start at 12 quarts and fly an hour you are down to 10?
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Second that never fill to top ,it only blows it out the breather.
 
Our Yankee did that. and the belly was not very oily. but it made blue smoke.
 
Oil in the combustion chamber promotes detonation, so I'd be careful of running an oil burner.
 
Burning two quarts per hour would make me nervous, probably warranting a compression check. I'll echo the above regarding blowing the excess out the breather.
 
I'd say that if they are considering a top overhaul they have been running it long enough to know what level to keep the oil at and this isn't due to an over-fill condition. I'd also assume the oil consumption issue is something new, that the engine wasn't doing it before.

Two qts/hr is a bit excessive and would, at the very least, warrant an investigation. The first step would be to do a compression test, the problem may only be one cylinder. It's a bit early to make the decision to do a complete top overhaul unless you've already determined the cause.
 
Go to a mechanic that has a bore scope and look inside the cylinders and find out where the oil is coming from before planning a top overhaul. Top overhaul is a expensive and most likely wasteful use of money. Google Mike busch all about cylinders or diagnosing high oil consumption and watch the video. It might just save your club 5-8k...... Could just be one broken oil control ring on one cylinder.
 
EdFred said:
Is it really burning 2 per hour, or is it doing what all Lycomings do, and blowing the first 2 quarts out? If you start at 6 quarts (you can go as low as 3) and fly an hour are you down to 4? Or is it if you start at 12 quarts and fly an hour you are down to 10?
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It's really burning 2 quarts / hour and the belly is not oily. I never fill it to the top.
 
That means it burns just under a shot of vodka(oil) every minute. That definitely needs to be investigated.
 
Lycoming says the engine is unairworthy if it uses 1.8 or more quarts per of oil per hour or more. If your mechanic finds the problem and thinks it something rather minor such as a oil control ring on one cylinder try switching to aero shell straight 50w and see if it reduces oil consumption. If you mechanic suggest a top overhaul based on hours without any further diagnosis......RUN and find a new mechanic. Did you look up the Mike Busch video yet?
 
I bought a plane with a run out IO520 which burned close to 2 quarts/hr. It ran perfectly way past TBO. It had 3 chrome cylinder which I presumed had not been properly broken in.
 
I recently purchased an Arrow that dumps anything over 6 quarts...and found out it was fine after being told about it happening quite often. What a mess when I filled it to capacity. Add a quart when it hits five and that takes 15 or so hours of flight time from six to five.
 
As I said before I'm pretty sure the OP knows how much oil to run in it. They didn't all of a sudden decide to start running it with an extra two quarts in the sump.
 
Flew an AME's 182 with him for a couple of years............never used a single drop...........stuck at 12.5 qts..........he was anal about being gentle on the power tho...
 
Vf6cruiser said:
Flew an AME's 182 with him for a couple of years............never used a single drop...........stuck at 12.5 qts..........he was anal about being gentle on the power tho...
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Every internal combustion engine uses oil.

If it appears not to, it's collecting crap. Most likely combustion products (water and carbon). Maybe fuel.
 
Glad you're getting it checked out, but until then, it's good to go as long as you keep flying with an eye on it. It's when there's no oil anywhere that you're in trouble!
 
Thanks for all the advice. After looking at the cylinder head, running some other tests above, and considering Lycoming's airworthiness rule, we "downed" the Saratoga for a top overhaul. Since we have a dedicated club mechanic (we own 5 planes), there's no additional cost for the labor...only costs us parts / refurb. She will be back in the air in 2 weeks. Thanks all for the usual great advice!
 
VWGhiaBob said:
Thanks for all the advice. After looking at the cylinder head, running some other tests above, and considering Lycoming's airworthiness rule, we "downed" the Saratoga for a top overhaul. Since we have a dedicated club mechanic (we own 5 planes), there's no additional cost for the labor...only costs us parts / refurb. She will be back in the air in 2 weeks. Thanks all for the usual great advice!
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Still don't understand why you would "top overhaul" the engine, how do you know all the cylinders need to be changed? What if there is only a issue with 1 or 2 cylinders....also when you remove all the cylinders there isn't any tension on the case so which is a problem in itself.

Changing perfectly good parts makes you less safe because they are all unproven parts and several engines have come apart due to loose cylinder flange bolts ect....why do extra maintenance that will make your engine more susceptible to failure?
 
Aaron...I am not a mechanic, unfortunately. ;-)

I started this thread wondering if it was safe because I love this plane. Our mechanic and club then downed the plane, concluding better to be safe than sorry.

The mechanic feels it needs a top overhaul. And unlike other mechanics, he has no financial incentive to make extra unnecessary work. In fact, we pay him a fixed amount, so his real incentive is to reduce the amount of work. He's a good, honest guy, so we're going to trust him and follow his advice.
 
VWGhiaBob said:
Aaron...I am not a mechanic, unfortunately. ;-)



I started this thread wondering if it was safe because I love this plane. Our mechanic and club then downed the plane, concluding better to be safe than sorry.



The mechanic feels it needs a top overhaul. And unlike other mechanics, he has no financial incentive to make extra unnecessary work. In fact, we pay him a fixed amount, so his real incentive is to reduce the amount of work. He's a good, honest guy, so we're going to trust him and follow his advice.
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http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=1204537102001

Have him watch the link above.....I believe you he is honest but a lot has changes in best practices in engine repair and the old school way of conducting repairs ends up costing the owners more money. At the price of cylindes it might save you some money, and besides anytime we loose, tighten and replace parts that don't need to be changed we increase the chances of so thin going wrong.

The could be as simple as a broken oil ring where he finds he culprit cylinder pulls it, replaces the oil ring, hones the cylinder and re assembles and you back to low oil consumption operation all for $500-700 instead of spending north of $8-10k.

Imagine how much more confident you will feel flying behind proven components......just a though.

Aaron
 
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