Bulk, New Car Engines?

I don't know why everyone is giving Nick such a hard time. He didn't ask anyone to design his project for him. All he asked was where he could buy new engines. If you know a place that sells new engines, let him know. If it doesn't meet his criteria, then he will not buy it. Perhaps he is thinking about opening a factory to build and supply new engines and wants to see how much competition there is. I thought it was an easy question, not an RFP or a project evaluation.
 
If you haven't yet built one single prototype Nickmobile why are you looking for a high volume source for engines? Seems like you've got the cart before the horse here.
 
It might be helpful if you could briefly describe the function of the Nickmobile, e.g.

Number of passengers and carrying capacity?

On road? Off road? Both?

Physical size limitations or requirements?

Minimum performance requirements?

Economy requirements?

Intended method of construction and materials? (e.g. body/frame, monocoque, steel, aluminum and/or composites)

Intended market or end users? (low income people, or equipping a fleet cheaply, or high income looking for some sort of specialty vehicle, etc...)

Budget for vehicle and price range?

Number of units?

Any existing sources of major vehicle components?

(Sac Arrow does have a background in vehicle design btw, at least by education.)
 
JOhnH said:
I don't know why everyone is giving Nick such a hard time. .
Click to expand...

Because the target keeps moving. First he wanted a bunch of new engines, then it was one new engine, then it was EPA road legal, then it was engine and a trans.
 
Sac Arrow said:
It might be helpful if you could briefly describe the function of the Nickmobile, e.g.
Click to expand...

I can try:

Number of passengers and carrying capacity?
Click to expand...
The number of passengers and carrying capacity that the engine will support, around a car that has been built

On road? Off road? Both?
Click to expand...
On Road only.

Physical size limitations or requirements?
Click to expand...
No limitations, the car would be limited by the engine, not the other way around.

Minimum performance requirements?
Click to expand...
It must drive a car at road speeds (including highway speeds). The size of the car would be based on what the engine would do

Economy requirements?
Click to expand...
None.

Intended method of construction and materials? (e.g. body/frame, monocoque, steel, aluminum and/or composites)
Click to expand...
Whatever the engine requires.

Intended market or end users? (low income people, or equipping a fleet cheaply, or high income looking for some sort of specialty vehicle, etc...)
Click to expand...
I'd rather not answer that question yet...

Budget for vehicle and price range?
Click to expand...
I'd rather not answer that question yet either...

Number of units?
Click to expand...
For prototype purposes, 1, however, should the prototype work the way I envision it would, a few thousand a year.

Any existing sources of major vehicle components?
Click to expand...
Not known yet...

(Sac Arrow does have a background in vehicle design btw, at least by education.)
Click to expand...
Then you may be interested in helping? I'll PM you details.
 
SkyHog said:
I can try:


The number of passengers and carrying capacity that the engine will support, around a car that has been built


On Road only.


No limitations, the car would be limited by the engine, not the other way around.


It must drive a car at road speeds (including highway speeds). The size of the car would be based on what the engine would do


None.


Whatever the engine requires.


I'd rather not answer that question yet...


I'd rather not answer that question yet either...


For prototype purposes, 1, however, should the prototype work the way I envision it would, a few thousand a year.


Not known yet...


Then you may be interested in helping? I'll PM you details.
Click to expand...

Okay, so, your business model appears to be "The expensive component of an automobile is the engine. Procure them cheaply and then you can make and sell vehicles to suit."

Which, isn't really true. Unless you can get the rest of the package as a unit, which is a complete chassis and body with brakes, lighting, wiring, etc... then you have design it, prototype it, tool up, and manufacture it. There is a very expensive capital outlay for prototyping (hand fabbing) one or two units, and an even more expensive capital outlay for tooling up a production facility to make it.

So, you get a line on some engines. What can you do with them? Let's say it's:

1. A three cylinder Fiat automotive diesel with an integral FWD manual drive train. You can basically, build a small four wheel subcompact FWD vehicle that resembles the Fiat it was designed for. Except that producing only a few thousand of them will yield something a lot more expensive that the Fiat it displaces, with probably fewer bells and whistles and probably lower quality due to lack of the same amount of R&D.

2. A four cylinder, two liter inline gasoline engine intended for a RWD vehicle. Pretty much anything ranging from a small compact RWD car to a half ton truck. Sort of depends on the transmission you can find to couple with it. If it's a car transmission, you're stuck with a small compact RWD car, and if it's a truck transmission, you're stuck with a small pickup. Unless you can get a reducer, then you might be able to make a larger cargo truck.

3. A 5.9L Cummins turbo diesel. Anything from a full size pickup to a 10,000 GVW utility truck. Or maybe a smaller motorhome.

In any case, the engines are going to be the cheap part of the equation. Normally, in a typical vehicle design, you start with an intended use, design the chassis and the body around it, and the engine and transmission is one of the last things to be designed or specified.

Not sure I could offer a lot of valuable assistance but if you wanted to ping some ideas off of me I'd be happy to help out in that way.
 
You all clearly have not dealt with Nick's thought experiments before. It goes like this:

Nick asks a question that doesn't make sense to anyone because it's not how anyone else does it that way. Nobody else does it that way because it doesn't make sense. The bickering goes on for a few pages with people trying to explain to Nick why it doesn't make sense, and Nick insisting that it does. No answer ever comes of this.

Eventually, the project goes nowhere, and everyone is confused by the initial question still because they do not understand that which is Nick. Love ya buddy. In a completely heterosexual way, of course. ;)

So here's my submission:

You haven't specified what regs it will fall under. Limited production/kit cars can have different regs than full on production cars. So assuming limited production, you could probably get away with a Chevy/Ford crate motor legally for emissions, and that will also probably be the cheapest. It will be a V8, but that will probably be cheaper than a 4 cylinder since there isn't a market for new 4 cylinders outside of OEMs, and OEMs will charge you way more money.

Transmission: any of the T-5/T-45/3550/TKO series can be had brand new. Manual trans.

You said the drivetrain will be married to the transmission, which doesn't work except with a front wheel drive setup. Which you won't find for sale new. You're better off buying a new Ford 8.8" or 9", which is also for sale.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
You all clearly have not dealt with Nick's thought experiments before. It goes like this:

Nick asks a question that doesn't make sense to anyone because it's not how anyone else does it that way. Nobody else does it that way because it doesn't make sense. The bickering goes on for a few pages with people trying to explain to Nick why it doesn't make sense, and Nick insisting that it does. No answer ever comes of this.

Eventually, the project goes nowhere, and everyone is confused by the initial question still because they do not understand that which is Nick. Love ya buddy. In a completely heterosexual way, of course. ;)

So here's my submission:

You haven't specified what regs it will fall under. Limited production/kit cars can have different regs than full on production cars. So assuming limited production, you could probably get away with a Chevy/Ford crate motor legally for emissions, and that will also probably be the cheapest. It will be a V8, but that will probably be cheaper than a 4 cylinder since there isn't a market for new 4 cylinders outside of OEMs, and OEMs will charge you way more money.

Transmission: any of the T-5/T-45/3550/TKO series can be had brand new. Manual trans.

You said the drivetrain will be married to the transmission, which doesn't work except with a front wheel drive setup. Which you won't find for sale new. You're better off buying a new Ford 8.8" or 9", which is also for sale.
Click to expand...

I don't think that's fair criticism at all, Ted. I asked a pretty specific question: "What is the cheapest, smallest engine, and where can I buy it?" I didn't ask anyone to engineer my project for me.

This thread has been about as frustrating as the myriad of "What is your mission" threads, where people just can't accept that the only mission a pilot may have is that the plane needs to get off the ground, return safely, and carry as many people as it was designed to carry.

The problem is that you are looking at my problem backwards: I don't need an engine to fit a specific car, I need a car to fit a specific engine. And the car is something I'm working on, but the engine is what I need information on now.

So far, I've determined that the cheapest option is the Ford 1.0L 3cyl Engine. It also appears to be making a return to the US soon, so availability will be better in the future as well. Anyone have anything else?
 
SkyHog said:
I don't think that's fair criticism at all, Ted. I asked a pretty specific question: "What is the cheapest, smallest engine, and where can I buy it?" I didn't ask anyone to engineer my project for me.
Click to expand...

I think it's pretty fair. You know how these discussions go here, you've been around these parts longer than most of the responders. :)
 
Didn't Obama junk all old engines under the clunk for clinkers program?
 
Well, not all of them, but a lot of them.
People still had to be able to buy a new qualifying car after getting their clunker cash.

But Nick doesn't want an old engine.
 
SkyHog said:
..... I asked a pretty specific question: "What is the cheapest, smallest engine, and where can I buy it?"
Click to expand...

SkyHog said:
Lets say someone wanted to buy a lot of engines, brand new. Where would one find them? All I can find are used/rebuilt ones.

Also - what is the cheapest, new engine on the market right now?

This is for a car, not a plane.
Click to expand...

Your first request was for a "cheapest, new engine on the market....

You made no mention of smallest the first time around..:no::nonod:
 
Silvaire said:
If you haven't yet built one single prototype Nickmobile why are you looking for a high volume source for engines? Seems like you've got the cart before the horse here.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't waste time on a prototype without having an idea about the cost and parts availability for scaling up production
 
SkyHog said:
I don't need an engine to fit a specific car, I need a car to fit a specific engine. And the car is something I'm working on, but the engine is what I need information on now.
Click to expand...
He's making me an electric sports car with an onboard generator, just like I asked for!!! THANKS, NICK!!!

:goofy:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top