Build XC time from the working non commercial crowd

[GeorgeC]

I'm also a full time job/2 kids weekend warrior type. I haven't done the ir/comm yet, but I flew lots of local 50nm XCs, a few 300nm XCs, did my night towered ops... Make every flight count towards something and you can check all the boxes pretty quickly.

 

[jspilot]

I work a full time regular job and get to the airport to go flying when I can, when scheduling and time permits I make an effort to select a trip at least 50nm from home and generally run at gentle power settings (2300 RPM, or thereabouts) to build up that cross country time for the instrument ticket... which is my real goal as I only feel like like a "half pilot" since my flying is often limited by not being able to poke through the frequent marine layers here and I can't realistically plan longer XC flights with my family if I don't have a VFR guarantee

Anyway... for the people on here who don't fly commercially but earned their instrument ticket... what was your secret? Did you just slowly slog through the XC flights until you had at least 50 PIC XC hours, or did you plan a one or two long trips?

I'm almost thinking now that I should just take a few days off work, grab an instrument rated pilot buddy (to have as a safety pilot for hood time, and in case we get socked in somewhere), and just plan a long a** trip in a 172N from San Diego up towards the Bay Area and back. Need at least 19 more XC hours.

I also feel like a trip like that, while taking care of the hours in one fell swoop, would also give me more valuable experience than just shuttling back and forth from the same 3 airports 10 times. I have heard of more than a few pilots get their instrument tickets but not really feel "ready" to actually use their ratings for real IMC <- don't want that to be me

Thoughts?

Unless I'm taking a friend up to sightsee, if I'm alone or the person I'm taking has gone with me already, I'm flying an XC. I have around 325 hours and about 70% of that is XC time( minus training flights.) The best advice I have is just take your time getting hours and plan to fly XC's when you can. You will be surprised at how fast the time adds up.

I would also plan for trying to get 2.0 or more on the Hobbs each XC. These are ideal length flights as they can be done in a 4 hour window. Go find an airport with a resturant about 85-100nm's away from your home base and make that flight a bunch of times and you will be all set!

 

[midlifeflyer]

Going back to @Tantalum's initial post, ultimately, yes, you slog through it.

Your student solo cross countries count.

Your private pilot cross country flights with your CFI count. One of them is required and doing the odd lesson by flying approaches and getting additional en route instruction and experience (something IMO is severely lacking in instrument training) isn't going to add that much extra expense to a "normal" instrument lesson.

Then there is, of course, you personal $100 hamburger flights. Draw a 50 mm circle around your home base.

 

[MAKG1]

Going back to @Tantalum's initial post, ultimately, yes, you slog through it.

Your student solo cross countries count.

Your private pilot cross country flights with your CFI count. One of them is required and doing the odd lesson by flying approaches and getting additional en route instruction and experience (something IMO is severely lacking in instrument training) isn't going to add that much extra expense to a "normal" instrument lesson.

Then there is, of course, you personal $100 hamburger flights. Draw a 50 mm circle around your home base.

Well, there is a solution where you DON'T slog through it. Part 141 has no XC requirement.

 

[Tantalum]

Thanks again guys for the thoughtful posts and recommendations. Was recommended the safety pilot thing from someone else locally and adopted the "50 nm circle around home base" for the $100 hamburger runs pretty much right after I got my license

Truth be told New England flying seemed to have more variety for XC flights. Where I am at currently you have a very small handful that are close enough but just over 50nm... outside of that you are looking at 200 or 300 nm trips... which is fine and good and more XC time but as VFR only and several high mountain ranges with dynamic weather patterns planning those effectively with both personal and airplane scheduling becomes cumbersome. There have been many clear days here where I chose not to go because winds aloft were high and I didn't like the prospect of trying to cross an 8,00 foot ridge with 30 nm winds aloft on a hot day - no thanks! haha

 

[Tantalum]

*8,000 now 800

 

[Clark1961]

Just to add in, I did two things to build xc time. Breakfast/lunch/dinner runs with some of my more adventurous friends and then did a bunch of long flights while instrument training. I just paid the instructor for the most part on the long flights under the hood. I thought the long flights were great because there was such a variety of approaches. Still had the ADF then so found out what the real problems were with those approaches. Sometimes the beacons were down, sometimes the receiver seemed insensitive, once or twice everything was great.

One other thing was I did get one long work related flight in while still VFR. That one provided a bit over 10% of the required xc time.

Sandyeggo you say? Go south for your xc. Maybe you can pick up a 17 y.o....

 

[Cajun_Flyer]

Truth be told New England flying seemed to have more variety for XC flights.

Yeah, we have an abundant selection of really great >50nm destinations in New England! If only the weather didn't cancel 70% or so of my flights to get to those awesome destinations.

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

Yeah, we have an abundant selection of really great >50nm destinations in New England! If only the weather didn't cancel 70% or so of my flights to get to those awesome destinations.

Just clear out the weather for me starting May 15th!!

 

[Tantalum]

Yeah, we have an abundant selection of really great >50nm destinations in New England! If only the weather didn't cancel 70% or so of my flights to get to those awesome destinations.

Definitely know the feeling! Not sure if it makes it better or worse but so often I have to cancel my trips because of a shallow marine layer. "If I could just get over or under that I'd be in the clear!"

Some of my favorite destinations in NE were, in rough order
-Montauk, KMTP
-Block Island, KBID
-Nantucket, KACK
-Northampton, 7B2 - nice walk to get into town, cool town
-Lebanon, KLEB

Within, but just over 50nm of me now are like three airports... lol, and none of them I've found to be as cool as the ones above. Big Bear is a cool place but the high DA and the mountain flying make that one far less easier to pop into than any on the list above. Oh well!

 

[sferguson524]

What about AVX?

 

[frfly172]

Do a lot of cross country breakfast runs,visit long distance airports,the time comes fairly quickly.

 

[Cajun_Flyer]

Definitely know the feeling! Not sure if it makes it better or worse but so often I have to cancel my trips because of a shallow marine layer. "If I could just get over or under that I'd be in the clear!"

Some of my favorite destinations in NE were, in rough order
-Montauk, KMTP
-Block Island, KBID
-Nantucket, KACK
-Northampton, 7B2 - nice walk to get into town, cool town
-Lebanon, KLEB

Within, but just over 50nm of me now are like three airports... lol, and none of them I've found to be as cool as the ones above. Big Bear is a cool place but the high DA and the mountain flying make that one far less easier to pop into than any on the list above. Oh well!

I flew into Big Bear last year at the end of June... it was actually my first post-checkride xc. Did it while away at a conference. It was a hot, muggy day and the DA was crazy. I've never experienced anything like that. Seemed to take forever to climb out and had to play "dodge the treeline" at the end of the runway a little. Good thing I was with a local CFI who was able to help me navigate all of the challenges, including the dozens of birds that descended on us during our approach! Won't forget that flight.

7B2/Northampton is a great spot! Started my PPL out of there, but switched when I moved closer into Boston. Love the airports you listed, although I still haven't been to MTP.

Some other favorites -
Chatham/KCQX
Keene/KEEN - Great new restaurant
Katama/1B2 - Can't beat beachfront airplane parking!
Sanford/KSFM
Groton/KGON

 

[Tantalum]

What about AVX?

I can't swim

Just kidding, I can, but that's far enough from shore that the prospect of spending some time in the water is a real thing to consider. A life jacket is great, but the Pacific ocean is COLD... it may seem overly cautious but even if is it just 20 minutes or so you are out of glide range I'd feel safer on that trip with a raft. I suppose you could fly up towards Long Beach and shoot out from there... but that's a lot of extra mileage. The islands in the NE area are all close enough that you are realistically within gliding range of some shore. Coming out of Block Island or MTP I would climb somewhere between VX and VY until about 3,500

So I haven't been to Catalina even though it is high on my list of places I'd like to go to

 

[Dave S.]

First of all....log every flight lands at a different airport from the one you took off from as cross country no matter how close or how far...as long as you used navigation or pilotage methods to get there...and who doesn't. Every single flight.

Then try to work in flights of over 50nm, etc, for part 61 requirements when needed.

Don't waste a single flight as long as it meets the above.

tex

 

[Tantalum]

Chatham/KCQX
Keene/KEEN - Great new restaurant
Katama/1B2 - Can't beat beachfront airplane parking!
Sanford/KSFM
Groton/KGON

Keene is a cool spot, I was on the fence about including that or not. I haven't been there in years but there was a cool general store you could walk to not far from it, and navigating to it was very easy since it stood just behind that small mountain there. Didn't go into Katama but have heard only good things! If I'm back on the east coast this summer I'll rent from ECAC in BED and do some nostalgic XCs maybe...

"dodge the treeline" at the end of the runway a little

Yup... if you take off heading east I always make a very gentle and mild left turn, there's an open field there that slopes down as you work to keep the airspeed up and the VS in the positive range. Surely a unique place!

 

[Cajun_Flyer]

First of all....log every flight lands at a different airport from the one you took off from as cross country no matter how close or how far...as long as you used navigation or pilotage methods to get there...and who doesn't. Every single flight.

I log every flight, but not as xc. Maybe if I had more columns in my logbook, but even then I don't see the point in logging those <50 nm as xc since they don't help me get any ratings. Am I missing some vital reason to log those as xc?

I'll rent from ECAC in BED and do some nostalgic XCs maybe...

That's where I rent out of. Never a dull place

if you take off heading east I always make a very gentle and mild left turn, there's an open field there that slopes down as you work to keep the airspeed up and the VS in the positive range.

Yep! That's exactly what he had me do. Such a cool flight.

 

[gsengle]

I'd say get the 50k Plane, a Cherokee maybe. The truth is you build time faster in a slower plane... and you learn by actually going places. Hard to do in rentals. Imagine the experience and time logged if you flew down to the fl keys and back over a week! Your first plane really isn't always your forever plane, you need to build experience....

ps I'm based in Northampton.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[sferguson524]

I can't swim

Just kidding, I can, but that's far enough from shore that the prospect of spending some time in the water is a real thing to consider. A life jacket is great, but the Pacific ocean is COLD... it may seem overly cautious but even if is it just 20 minutes or so you are out of glide range I'd feel safer on that trip with a raft. I suppose you could fly up towards Long Beach and shoot out from there... but that's a lot of extra mileage. The islands in the NE area are all close enough that you are realistically within gliding range of some shore. Coming out of Block Island or MTP I would climb somewhere between VX and VY until about 3,500

So I haven't been to Catalina even though it is high on my list of places I'd like to go to

SMO is a fun flight out of MYF.. Easier when on IFR flight plan (IMO). The typhoon restaurant is AMAZING

 

[AWACSEng]

Am I missing some vital reason to log those as xc?

If you ever seek employment, they will be looking for a certain amount of cross country. For those purposes, ALL cross country time is useable, not just the Pt. 61 >50nm time.

 

[Tantalum]

By the way, I do log every flight and make good notes in the comments field, etc. But I'm not logging "cross country" time if it doesn't count as a cross country towards ratingsn namely instrument, IE, over 50nm, I guess I just don't see the point in that like @Cajun_Flyer said, I still log it as PIC, but the XC column I reserve for over 50nm

The truth is you build time faster in a slower plane...

So true... I think I did my last XC here at like 2,200 RPM

 

[Tantalum]

If you ever seek employment, they will be looking for a certain amount of cross country. For those purposes, ALL cross country time is useable, not just the Pt. 61 >50nm time.

Makes sense, thanks

 

[Tantalum]

SMO is a fun flight out of MYF.. Easier when on IFR flight plan (IMO). The typhoon restaurant is AMAZING

Nice! I've been into there once or twice but never stopped to eat. Good to keep in mind. LAX transition routes are fun

 

[SbestCFII]

Some apparently log most of their hours as cross country regardless of any real standard or metric. No reason you can't either. Also, all your log book hours count. Even the ones you logged during PPL training.

Not all. For example your dual cross-countries as a student pilot do not count. Neither does any flight less than 50 NM as either a solo student or a private pilot. You can count XC time as a safety pilot (>50 NM) if agreed that the safety pilot is the PIC, while the pilot under the hood can log PIC as "sole manipulator of the controls." Remember, the metrics are PIC (solo student or certificated pilot) on a flight of 50 NM or greater. I've seen a DPE measure distances on a IFR students coming to check-ride with the bare minimum hours. Don't fudge your hours. When it comes to adding a rating, there is no such thing as cross-country time under 50 NM. Instead of spending an hour flying in the pattern, fly to an airport 50 miles out, do some T&G's and fly back home.

https://www.aopa.org/training-and-s...-cross-country-time/logging-time-safety-pilot

 

[MAKG1]

I can't swim

Just kidding, I can, but that's far enough from shore that the prospect of spending some time in the water is a real thing to consider. A life jacket is great, but the Pacific ocean is COLD... it may seem overly cautious but even if is it just 20 minutes or so you are out of glide range I'd feel safer on that trip with a raft. I suppose you could fly up towards Long Beach and shoot out from there... but that's a lot of extra mileage. The islands in the NE area are all close enough that you are realistically within gliding range of some shore. Coming out of Block Island or MTP I would climb somewhere between VX and VY until about 3,500

So I haven't been to Catalina even though it is high on my list of places I'd like to go to

You can fly to Catalina and remain within glide range to one shore or another at all times. You just have to do it high enough. 10,000 ought to do it in a 172.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Thanks again guys for the thoughtful posts and recommendations. Was recommended the safety pilot thing from someone else locally and adopted the "50 nm circle around home base" for the $100 hamburger runs pretty much right after I got my license

Truth be told New England flying seemed to have more variety for XC flights. Where I am at currently you have a very small handful that are close enough but just over 50nm... outside of that you are looking at 200 or 300 nm trips... which is fine and good and more XC time but as VFR only and several high mountain ranges with dynamic weather patterns planning those effectively with both personal and airplane scheduling becomes cumbersome. There have been many clear days here where I chose not to go because winds aloft were high and I didn't like the prospect of trying to cross an 8,00 foot ridge with 30 nm winds aloft on a hot day - no thanks! haha

Yeah. I learned to fly in New England. The main impetus for going after the instrument rating was the changeable weather and the summer "milk bottle." Of course, a few weeks after earning the rating I moved to Colorado where I rarely used it.

 

[midlifeflyer]

7B2/Northampton is a great spot! Started my PPL out of there, but switched when I moved closer into Boston.

That's where I got my private,

 

[BigBadLou]

I did not rush into IR. It took me a year to fly around, to vacation spots, weekend destinations, I flew a LOT of rescue pups and eventually realized that IR would be a good way to go. At that time, I already had >100hrs XC so it was no issue to me.
I was VERY comfortable in my airplane and knew that transitioning from VFR to IFR should be no problem and I was right. I cannot imagine jumping into IR training right after I got my PPL, or shortly thereafter. Becoming well proficient in my VFR flying made me confident in my IR training and I blasted through it in no time and it was a lot of fun.

Go fly an XC for a fun reason and enjoy the heck out of it! When you start training for your IR, you will miss seeing out the window, it was pretty drastic for me. Trust me.

 

[Tantalum]

I cannot imagine jumping into IR training right after I got my PPL

Definitely agree, and the high from earning that PPL rating lasted for a long time. I'm at the point now though where I want to be able to more confidently plan trips in the future without scrapping them simply because I have a marine layer I need to get over or under. I do have some actual instrument time with an instructor and it was incredible coming out on top. Wow, one of my coolest memories actually to date was flying up into the sun in the Cirrus from a dark overcast sky, that would be a really cool experience to give pax I think

Frankly on the east coast with the threat of icing, etc., I didn't really have a desire to be IR, but despite "Sunny SoCal!" the coast is often socked in, and with some of the local elevations so high I really am not interested in threading a needle between an overcast layer and a mountain pass - no thanks!

 

[MAKG1]

You'll find IFR in mountains often doesn't work well. Heading north from LA, some of the routes will put you at 12000 or higher. Ice in winter and convective activity in summer.

It's great for marine layer, but that can get too low as well.

Honestly, it's real tough for an inexperienced low time pilot. Heck, it's tough for anyone, but you have extra stuff in the way.

 

[Tantalum]

You'll find IFR in mountains often doesn't work well.

For sure... and that's when I start dreaming about the day I win the lottery and get some cool pressurized turbo plane where I can climb into the flight levels

 

[Volzalum]

If you do a short hop and land in the opposite direction, then you may can get a >50 nm XC to your desired $100 burger location, then hit the 2nd starting point again on way back before hopping to home airport. Might open some of your 30-40 nm locations up for >50 nm legs.

 

[Tantalum]

If you do a short hop and land in the opposite direction, then you may can get a >50 nm XC to your desired $100 burger location, then hit the 2nd starting point again on way back before hopping to home airport. Might open some of your 30-40 nm locations up for >50 nm legs.

Yup, I'd have to backtrack a little from SEE to Brown Field, but that does open up some options. I'm usually bringing pax though if I fly somewhere and the "we're going to fly in the wrong direction for 20 minutes" is generally a deal breaker lol

 

[Volzalum]

Yup, I'd have to backtrack a little from SEE to Brown Field, but that does open up some options. I'm usually bringing pax though if I fly somewhere and the "we're going to fly in the wrong direction for 20 minutes" is generally a deal breaker lol

Just tell them you are avoiding airspace ... lol