Briggs Stratton too lean?

RJM62 said:
On a related note, I finally found a gas can nozzle that meets EPA and state standards and can actually be used to dispense gas.
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AWESOME! That's actually the same nozzle we have as well after many frustrating attempts at filling mowers, outboards, etc. BTW, I always thought I was the only that had a problem with those gas can spouts
 
ElPaso Pilot said:
Does B&S actually produce any mower transmissions? I was under the impression that B&S was merely a one of several suppliers of engines to the OEMs, who bolt them on their own platforms. Which may or may not be wonky.
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That is the case.
 
Tantalum said:
AWESOME! That's actually the same nozzle we have as well after many frustrating attempts at filling mowers, outboards, etc. BTW, I always thought I was the only that had a problem with those gas can spouts
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I use the VP racing jugs for my yard equipment. Fast fill, won't spill unless you knock the jug over.
 
Tantalum said:
We've certainly made strides, but there should be a reasonable balance. I can't imagine 4hp mowers were adding that much to pollution levels
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I dunno, you ever been out on a Saturday morning back in the 90's when everyone was running their Lawn Boy? :)
 
SoonerAviator said:
I dunno, you ever been out on a Saturday morning back in the 90's when everyone was running their Lawn Boy?
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I do recall smelling a lot more smoke growing up.

I wonder how the two strokes become compliant then. You can still buy two stroke outboards and there is plenty of two stroke lawn equipment. Surely a rich running 4-stroke lawn mower is still cleaner than a 2-stroke weedwacker?
 
Tantalum said:
We've certainly made strides, but there should be a reasonable balance. I can't imagine 4hp mowers were adding that much to pollution levels
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Oddly enough they contribute significant percentages of NOX and volatile organic compounds.
 
weilke said:
Oddly enough they contribute significant percentages of NOX and volatile organic compounds.
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If that's parts per million from it's own emissions I understand that.. mowers are relatively low tech and I wouldn't doubt that at all. But for total overall gross carbon footprint of the earth? It's got to be relatively small. Even if a mower emits, say, 30% more harmful emissions than a typical car they're still used what, maybe 50 hrs a year by at most half the population?

At the end of the day I shouldn't have bought B&S since they apparently can't make a compliant machine that runs well, oh well
 
Tantalum said:
I do recall smelling a lot more smoke growing up.

I wonder how the two strokes become compliant then. You can still buy two stroke outboards and there is plenty of two stroke lawn equipment. Surely a rich running 4-stroke lawn mower is still cleaner than a 2-stroke weedwacker?
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Dunno, maybe on a displacement-for-displacement basis, but a 4HP lawnmower is creating a larger volume of combustion byproducts than the .75HP or less line trimmer.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Dunno, maybe on a displacement-for-displacement basis, but a 4HP lawnmower is creating a larger volume of combustion byproducts than the .75HP or less line trimmer.
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But are the byproducts of combustion mostly water and CO2 or large quantites of unburnt 2 cycle hydrocarbons?
 
The thing that makes small 2 stroke gasoline engines so dirty is the because the lubrication oil must be mixed in with the fuel. Someone probably could engineer one to be more mechanically like a 2-stroke diesel and not have that requirement, but it would be complex enough that a 4-stroke engine would probably be cheaper to produce.
 
Tantalum said:
If that's parts per million from it's own emissions I understand that.. mowers are relatively low tech and I wouldn't doubt that at all. But for total overall gross carbon footprint of the earth? It's got to be relatively small. Even if a mower emits, say, 30% more harmful emissions than a typical car they're still used what, maybe 50 hrs a year by at most half the population?
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Not globally across the earth. In metro areas with a smog problem, small engines contribute a sizeable percentage of VOC. This is the result of cars and gas stations being very good at controlling VOCs. Even though small engines only provide a small percentage of the 'horsepower', they have a measurable contribution to volatile organics.
 
weilke said:
Not globally across the earth. In metro areas with a smog problem, small engines contribute a sizeable percentage of VOC. This is the result of cars and gas stations being very good at controlling VOCs. Even though small engines only provide a small percentage of the 'horsepower', they have a measurable contribution to volatile organics.
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Interesting... I'll have to research into that. Since you're burning the same gas I would think the emissions are similar, assuming a complete combustion and healthy engine
 
Tantalum said:
Interesting... I'll have to research into that. Since you're burning the same gas I would think the emissions are similar, assuming a complete combustion and healthy engine
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Except for the oil mixed in.
 
Tantalum said:
Interesting... I'll have to research into that. Since you're burning the same gas I would think the emissions are similar, assuming a complete combustion and healthy engine
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That was true when cars had carburetered engines without emissions controls. Now cars have EFI and cathalytic converters and small engines dont. Cars also control VOC with those charcoal canisters. Per pound of fuel burned, small engines have higher emissions than cars.
 
As a californian, i can get behind bashing our standards when appropriate, brah. I'll just say that i have a B&S mower that is about ten years old. Maybe changed the oil three times and have done nothing else. Hit the primer three times, starts on first pull, as long as there is gas in it. As for gas can spouts, throw it away and use a funnel.

Now, wanna bash california, let's talk about illegal mt biking. Its a real thing in this state and it can get expensive, so i've heard.
 
weilke said:
Per pound of fuel burned, small engines have higher emissions than cars.
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I believe it for sure. But how many pounds of fuel am I going to burn in a year of mowing grass, compared to my car? At any rate I'm not saying reasonable enviro conscious regulations are a bad thing, surely there is great value in keeping the air we breath clean. But when I can't even run my lawn mower once the auto choke opens after it warms up that starts to get a little crazy (or maybe B&S just started to be a crappy company. Growing up I thought they were the gold standard in small engines, maybe Honda took that crown now)
 
RJM62 said:
I thought they bought out Snapper, Murray, and some other mower companies?

Rich
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Briggs & Stratton? I don't know. I suppose I could look it up. My comments were dated.
 
MTD makes a bunch of the consumer lawn brands.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
RJM62 said:
On a related note, I finally found a gas can nozzle that meets EPA and state standards and can actually be used to dispense gas. It took about five years, but I finally found one.

https://www.amazon.com/No-Spill-6131-Gas-Nozzle-Assembly/dp/B001QCZQ7I
The one in the link is the only one I've found so far that's actually usable.

Rich
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Thanks - I just ordered one. After hearing all the trouble everyone is having with newer mowers, I guess I better try to squeeze a few more years out of my '77 Toro. I actually have a second one i picked up for parts about 20 years ago and have been able to keep the old one running.
 
Tantalum said:
I believe it for sure. But how many pounds of fuel am I going to burn in a year of mowing grass, compared to my car? At any rate I'm not saying reasonable enviro conscious regulations are a bad thing, surely there is great value in keeping the air we breath clean. But when I can't even run my lawn mower once the auto choke opens after it warms up that starts to get a little crazy (or maybe B&S just started to be a crappy company. Growing up I thought they were the gold standard in small engines, maybe Honda took that crown now)
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I go through roughly 4 gallons of gas a year. 3 in the mower (Briggs engine), one in the trimmer (Ryobi - 2 stroke). Sometimes more, sometimes less. I have a pretty small yard, and since I don't water in the summer, I can generally go for several weeks without mowing when it really gets hot.

Now, when I fire up the smoker, I definitely contribute to drowning polar bears.
 
don't blame the engine, did you follow the checklist?:p
 
Matthew said:
Now, when I fire up the smoker, I definitely contribute to drowning polar bears.
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Shh... California will probably decide we need back yard smoker emissions standards and stick us all with them. ;)
 
B&S many years ago did away with the choke system and went to a primer system. This was done because of regulations set forth by the EPA. They found that during start up these little engine produced a lot of emissions. They also set them to run lean. It does not take much to make these engine surge from over lean. There are ways to fix this if you know what you are doing.
Many years ago, a decade or so ago. B&S purchased all of Honda's old stock. Honda retooled and redesigned their engine. B&S then brought all the NOS. They purchased over a million of these engines. Not sure if they have depleted this stock yet. This is why if you purchased an OHV B&S the block had Honda stamped into it. It was a honda block with B&S parts bolted to it.
The EPA had further plans to play with small engines. They had a date of 2020 in mind, not sure if they changed this date. But anything under 4 hp would be effected by this. The EPA wanted Fuel Injection and computer controlled injection at that on these small engines. They also wanted all two strokes to be done away with. Things like weed eaters will be 4 stroke not two stroke. I have been out of the loop now for over 15 years or so, some of this may have changed. But this was the plan. I have mentioned this before and people scuffed at the date of 2020. I heard things like who cares what happens in 2020. Well 2020 is knocking on our door. I bet those people who made these comments care today.
Tony
P.S I am factory Trained by B&S and many many others.
 
There are a few 4-stroke weed trimmers out there, but they are noticeably heavier and usually relegated to the oddball commercial jobs like brush cutting or pole saws that can take advantage of the higher torque output. The reason I like 2-strokes, is that they put out a lot of power in a small/light package, and as long as you have the proper fuel-oil mix, you can't kill the things.
 
SoonerAviator said:
There are a few 4-stroke weed trimmers out there, but they are noticeably heavier and usually relegated to the oddball commercial jobs like brush cutting or pole saws that can take advantage of the higher torque output. The reason I like 2-strokes, is that they put out a lot of power in a small/light package, and as long as you have the proper fuel-oil mix, you can't kill the things.
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It's been some years ago (~10?) but I went out of my way to find a 4 stroke edger/string trimmer. It was a Troy Bilt with interchangeable heads sold by either Lower or Home Depot (don't remember now). It had good reviews and I wanted to get away from premixed gas, two kinds of gas to store, etc.

The power was barely enough for the string trimer and the edger never had anywhere close to enough power. (St. Augustine lawn, central Florida.) I switched to the Echo 2 stroke and there's no comparison. (Not a controlled, all else is equal, 4-stroke vs. 2-stroke experiment, but a data point.)

John
 
jsstevens said:
It's been some years ago (~10?) but I went out of my way to find a 4 stroke edger/string trimmer. It was a Troy Bilt with interchangeable heads sold by either Lower or Home Depot (don't remember now). It had good reviews and I wanted to get away from premixed gas, two kinds of gas to store, etc.

The power was barely enough for the string trimer and the edger never had anywhere close to enough power. (St. Augustine lawn, central Florida.) I switched to the Echo 2 stroke and there's no comparison. (Not a controlled, all else is equal, 4-stroke vs. 2-stroke experiment, but a data point.)

John
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I've got a 2-stroke Toro with the interchangeable trimmer/edger attachments that has done great for over a decade. It has been getting almost impossible to start, and I had just had all fuel lines/filter/primer bulb/fuel cap replaced last year by a repair shop. I will be getting the ECHO PAS trimmer to replace it, as I'm a fan of the ECHO stuff. We've got an ECHO chainsaw and a backpack blower that work great, so I won't be getting away from pre-mix any time soon. It doesn't bother me that much as I only go through 2-3 gallons of pre-mix per year anyway, and it all uses the same ratio. Back when you had equipment with 32:1, 40:1, 50:1 it was a real hassle to keep it straight. Nowadays most everything runs 50:1 for the most part.

When I start having to lug around small equipment with 4-strokes/EFI/batteries/catalytic converters/etc., I'll just pay someone else to do it, lol.
 
SoonerAviator said:
I've got a 2-stroke Toro with the interchangeable trimmer/edger attachments that has done great for over a decade. It has been getting almost impossible to start, and I had just had all fuel lines/filter/primer bulb/fuel cap replaced last year by a repair shop. I will be getting the ECHO PAS trimmer to replace it, as I'm a fan of the ECHO stuff. We've got an ECHO chainsaw and a backpack blower that work great, so I won't be getting away from pre-mix any time soon. It doesn't bother me that much as I only go through 2-3 gallons of pre-mix per year anyway, and it all uses the same ratio. Back when you had equipment with 32:1, 40:1, 50:1 it was a real hassle to keep it straight. Nowadays most everything runs 50:1 for the most part.

When I start having to lug around small equipment with 4-strokes/EFI/batteries/catalytic converters/etc., I'll just pay someone else to do it, lol.
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What the local mower shop owner told me was that Stihl and Echo both make excellent commercial gear, but Echo uses the same engines in their consumer gear and Stihl does not. He carries and repairs both so he'd know. He might just be making things up because he gets a better percentage on the Echo (I doubt it, be he could be.) But the two Echo pieces I have and the one my dad had (now hanging in my garage) have all been excellent. Even with infrequent use.

John
 
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