Briggs Stratton too lean?

Tantalum

Tantalum

Final Approach
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San_Diego_Pilot
Just bought a brand new mower with a Briggs and Stratton ex engine after I got fed up with the electric one. Anyway, ran mostly fine my first mow last week, just noticed a little bit of surging and occasional backfiring... but otherwise ran great

Today however after about 5 minutes it wouldn't stay running very well and was backfiring like crazy. Okay. Carb issue?

I took the air box off and found the auto choke plate open.. okay good. What's strange though is if I forced the plate a tiny bit closed with my hand it would run fine. This tells me it is running too lean, between that and the backfiring. And forcing the choke plate somewhat closed enriched the mixture.

I took the auto choke wire off and just manually set the choke and mowed the rest of the yard without any further problems.

Did I get a dud and should return, or is this some new EPA thing where it runs too lean and I'll just need to manually choke it from now on. PITA

Does anyone know if there is a way to change the mixture on these?
 
:popcorn:

I got the opposite problem. Got a Briggs and Stratton that seems to be choked for air all the time. If I come off the idle it wants to quit. About to take it apart to see how the choke system works (all my other small engines are Hondas, so not familiar at all with B&S).
 
This crappy ethanol gas causes lots of issues also. I run all my small engines on 100LL. Give that a try.
 
I run mine only on zero ethanol premium Mogadishu or 100LL only. Do that with all my small engines. The B&s is the only one causing me problems and I am pretty sure something is wrong with the air/fuel setup.
 
Yeah a little disappointed to be honest. I thought B&S was the standard small engine for a reason... when I have more time this weekend I'll take the whole carb apart. Just seems silly in a brand new engine.. ugh
 
I would almost bet that thing is set up very lean to make emissions. Is the carb adjustable?
 
G-force said:
I would almost bet that thing is set up very lean to make emissions. Is the carb adjustable?
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That's my suspicion... I'll take it apart this weekend and see. Why a lawn mower has emission standards is beyond me
 
G-force said:
I would almost bet that thing is set up very lean to make emissions. Is the carb adjustable?
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I was going to say it, but I'd have to start another rant about CARB compliant carbs on power equipment exported from Kalifornia -- and I've had enough reminders of that place from the other thread. LOL.

Couldn't even find an adjustable carb for the '84 vintage John Deere snowblower with a Briggs on it, a few years back. Because you know... nobody lives at 6000' MSL and actually needs to adjust a carburetor... according to manufacturers who only make Kalifornia Kompliant carbs now. Couldn't even buy a rebuild kit for the old one.

The only good news is, the non-adjustables are so lean, the thing actually runs okay on it up here at 6000' MSL. Only at WOT and with it on the half choke setting until it's under massive load, and it blows fire from its exhaust and turns the muffler red it runs so hot and lean, but it runs.
 
denverpilot said:
WOT and with it on the half choke setting until it's under massive load
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That's exactly it. I rigged the choke half open and it ran okay once it was under some load. I might have to jury rig a red mixture knob somehow up by the push handle...

It is ridiculous.
 
I've really found that Honda and Stihl did their small engines right after all the CARB changes, but Briggs never seemed to get it right. The other two run really well in any application I've got them in.

Even Honda has to sell a sealed "high altitude" kit for us folks up here, but at least they do it. Briggs has nothing. Or didn't, the last time I shopped. And if they have it now, they don't install it on gear headed here. You buy the thing and then wait a week or two to get that part and DIY the install. They just bulk ship the junk to the big box stores as-is right off the boat.

Deere is also good on new stuff, but way too pricey now. You pay a lot of money for green paint. Worth it maybe in large gear, but not in small engine stuff.

I lust over the neighbor's Deere tractor but when the blue Ford finally dies, it'll probably be replaced with an orange Kubota and not a green Deere.
 
Having recently given away a lawnmower that had a carbureted Briggs because I was tired of spending more time farting around with the carburetor than mowing the lawn, I don't find your experience hard to believe. I suspect that that engine also needed a valve job that I didn't feel like doing, but the carburetor had been a pain in the ass since the day I bought it.

My local mom-and-pop Husqvarna dealer has also been steering people away from most of the carbureted B&S engines and toward the Honda and LCT engines for the past few years, for the same reason. Apparently the carbureted B&S engines that are CARB-compliant have been nothing but trouble. When I bought my snow blower a few years ago, they pushed me toward a model with an LCT engine. When I bought a new Husqvarna lawn mower last month, the salesman (who's also a friend of mine) pushed me hard toward one with a Honda engine, even though it was considerably less expensive than the models with B&S engines.

Last year my dad asked me to ask the dealer I use if they could match Lowes' price on a tractor. They could; but more importantly, the version of that model tractor that Lowes sold had a carbureted B&S engine, while the version sold through the Husqvarna dealership had an EFI B&S engine that was dual-badged by B&S and Husqvarna. Apparently the EFI Briggs engines are still solid. It's only the carbureted ones that are a headache.

If you decide to return the thing, I doubt you'll find much difference. I'd either get a refund; exchange it for a model with a different engine (either another brand or an EFI model, if available); or rig a manual choke. There may also be some aftermarket, non-CARB-compliant rebuild kit available, but rigging a manual choke would be easier.

Rich
 
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I've had a Briggs and Stratton mower I've been using for the better part of two decades. I share it with my neighbor. The thing has never had any mechanical service of any kind and still runs just fine.
 
Take it back and grab another. It's probably just misadjusted from the factory, but since it's new I wouldn't even fuss with adjusting it. The next one will probably be fine. I've had B&S engines in all sorts of things that have run without complaint for decades. They won't be as smooth/quiet as a Honda or Kawasaki in general, but they definitely work just fine for what most people use them for.
 
Yeah really. You don't exactly need a Swiss watch to mow your lawn. Especially not mine, which I think is mostly weeds.
 
steingar said:
I've had a Briggs and Stratton mower I've been using for the better part of two decades. I share it with my neighbor. The thing has never had any mechanical service of any kind and still runs just fine.
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I had one, too, two mowers ago. The deck rotted away to nothing, but the engine still ran. It seems to be only the recent, CARB-compliant, carbureted models that have issues.

Rich
 
steingar said:
I've had a Briggs and Stratton mower I've been using for the better part of two decades. I share it with my neighbor. The thing has never had any mechanical service of any kind and still runs just fine.
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RJM62 said:
I had one, too, two mowers ago. The deck rotted away to nothing, but the engine still ran. It seems to be only the recent, CARB-compliant, carbureted models that have issues.

Rich
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Agreed. Two decades ago is about right for the last of the reliable Briggs motors from what I've seen. The only motor that won't start and I haven't been able to beat into submission out in the garage is a modern Briggs on a 5000W generator that dad owned. It's going to require drastic measures. I think it had ethanol gas in it for three years or more without being started. I suspect it was a "project" for dad, and he was a small engine whisperer. Haha.

He used to buy dead small engine tools (especially snowblowers) at garage sales and then coax them back to life and use them as trade bait. He once bought two dead snowblowers for $25, got them running with no new parts, then traded both for a new water heater installed and the guy also carted away the old one. Haha. Best barter deal I ever saw. He spent hours cleaning crud out of their carbs though.

Both Hondas pull start in a single pull every time no matter how much I abuse them. Well, if I leave ethanol gas in them for a year (try to avoid that, seriously) it'll take two pulls. Sometimes I forget to drain the Honda at the hangar in summer when it doesn't get used much. Technically I only abuse that one, the 1000. I baby the 3000. That's a sweet little genset. We bought it for the fifth wheel and it didn't go with the trailer. It stays. Awesome little unit.
 
Briggs and Stratton is the bottom of the barrel of small engines.

Take it back. Any other manufacturer would be better.
 
ElPaso Pilot said:
Are you sure about that?

https://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result/index/?CatPath=All+Products%2F%2F%2F%2FUserSearch1%3Dengines////Engines+&+Generators&RequestData=CA_CategoryExpand&dir=asc&order=EAScore,f,EAFeatured+Weight,f,Sale+Rank,f&q=engines
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Hey now, I replaced a pressure washer motor that failed catastrophically with one of the HF Predator engines. I leave fuel in it for 6-7 months sometimes in-between uses, abuse it, and toss it in the corner. That thing will fire up the first pull every time and runs strong. Best of all, it was only $100 for a 7HP engine, which you couldn't touch anything B&S/Kohler/Kawasaki/Honda for double that price.
 
ElPaso Pilot said:
Are you sure about that?

https://www.harborfreight.com/catal...e,f,EAFeatured+Weight,f,Sale+Rank,f&q=engines
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LOL. HF stuff is great if you're going to throw it away after the job is done.

I have one of their little generators too. It runs like dog poop after the dog ate three cans of pumpkin. But it can usually be coaxed to life after about ten pulls. Ha.

But cheap... oh man is it cheap. If you need a genset in a hurry and don't care if it lasts, a couple of Benjamins at HF and you're up and running in a couple of hours including drive time.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
too many links. Which doc?
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This is California, we have to abide by all of them! One point that may not have been clearly stated, the OP is in California, we get different engines/carbs on power equiptment than the rest of the country. So you guys out side of CA may not be having problems, but us in CA are because we get different equiptment. Look in say a Norther Tools catalog, there are different Honda generators (different part numbers) for ones legal to sell/ship to california. On a different note, OP, I have been very happy with a Honda motored Troy mower from a big box store.
 
I second Honda powered mowers. I've had a Honda mower for the last... mmm... twelve years? It is superior to the Briggs powered mower it replaced in every respect, and that was back when Briggs motors were still bullet proof.
 
Sac Arrow said:
I second Honda powered mowers. I've had a Honda mower for the last... mmm... twelve years? It is superior to the Briggs powered mower it replaced in every respect, and that was back when Briggs motors were still bullet proof.
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Yup, if you are wanting the best of the best, Honda mowers are great . . . but you're gonna pay. They pay for themselves more if you are using them for commercial mowing. For Joe Consumer, mowing his 1/2 acre lot twice a week for 3-4 months of the year, the B&S engine will last him a decade or longer without likely needing anything other than normal maintenance. You can buy two B&S mowers for every one Honda mower, just depends on how much you want to pay up front. When it comes to larger engines, I think there's a bit more parity in the market. B&S/Kohler/Honda/Kawasaki all make some good engines in the 20HP+ range.
 
On the upside, there is less smog in the LA basin. The downside is that the rest of the country has to deal with ****ty lawnmowers.

The behaviour you are seeing could also indicate an air-leak.
 
G-force said:
This is California, we have to abide by all of them! One point that may not have been clearly stated, the OP is in California, we get different engines/carbs on power equiptment than the rest of the country.
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LOL. No. Honda is an exception. And only on certain engines.

What really happens is that we all get your carbs and things now because the manufacturers don't want to make two models.

That's what we were saying when I was talking about Honda and whoever makes Stihl and some others working well, but Briggs never got it right when they all went CARB compliant.
 
A number of states voluntarily adopt CARB standards. So it's not like you can build a '49 state lawnmower', more liked a '37 state' compliant version. Manufacturers don't like to produce different lines, so we all get 'flame arrestors' and overly lean chainsaws.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Yup, if you are wanting the best of the best, Honda mowers are great . . . but you're gonna pay. They pay for themselves more if you are using them for commercial mowing. For Joe Consumer, mowing his 1/2 acre lot twice a week for 3-4 months of the year, the B&S engine will last him a decade or longer without likely needing anything other than normal maintenance. You can buy two B&S mowers for every one Honda mower, just depends on how much you want to pay up front. When it comes to larger engines, I think there's a bit more parity in the market. B&S/Kohler/Honda/Kawasaki all make some good engines in the 20HP+ range.
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The other factor is self propelled mowers. Honda has a pretty solid system while B&S implementations tend to be wonky. The last B&S mower I had was just a standard mower, but the Honda is self propelled. I like that feature enough that I won't go back when I have to get another.
 
Sac Arrow said:
The other factor is self propelled mowers. Honda has a pretty solid system while B&S implementations tend to be wonky. The last B&S mower I had was just a standard mower, but the Honda is self propelled. I like that feature enough that I won't go back when I have to get another.
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Eh, I'll agree to an extent. I think Honda's system is more durable, but we had to have the transmissions/wheel mechanisms repaired/replaced at least once a season on our Honda mowers when I was running a landscape crew in college. They may have improved the product since the early 2000's, but we were doing 20 yards a day and frequently had 1 of the 3 Honda self-propelled units in the shop for repair. The engines always fired right up though. The only caveat I can add, is that the fanciest model (which I ran almost exclusively) never seemed to have issues. It was the model with 3-speed transmission and the blade clutch, but maybe I operated it differently than my crew did (don't leave engaged when turning).
 
Sac Arrow said:
The other factor is self propelled mowers. Honda has a pretty solid system while B&S implementations tend to be wonky. The last B&S mower I had was just a standard mower, but the Honda is self propelled. I like that feature enough that I won't go back when I have to get another.
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Does B&S actually produce any mower transmissions? I was under the impression that B&S was merely a one of several suppliers of engines to the OEMs, who bolt them on their own platforms. Which may or may not be wonky.
 
RJM62 said:
but the engine still ran
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That's why I got this one, my family always had B&S mowers and I remember them being very solid and tolerating just about any kind of abuse... but that would put it about 2-3 decades ago which I guess makes sense.

I just bought it and already took the carb apart once and have a few mows in.. at this point manually rigging the choke with my current set up is easier than taking the whole thing apart and returning it. Oh well. I will know for next time. Ultimately I don't mind working on small engines

**Seems Honda was able to get the compliant stuff right, wonder why B&S couldn't. We had / have a Honda outboard and it's bullet proof.. much more so than the Tohatsus (from my experience)

Tangentially related, Harley Davidson had some over leaning issues too: https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/harley-davidson-clean-air-act-settlement
From what I understand they would get to the dealership brand new but run so lean they would barely idle, so the dealers would "update" the firmware and then they would run fine, apparently
 
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We get air that isn't so visible around the big cities. Sometimes it takes awhile to get the regs right. I think the small engine regs are a bit overboard but have to admit I'm unfamiliar with the data. I have seen enough change in the reported sources of air pollution over time that I doubt all reports. I don't doubt the visually cleaner air and decreased ozone levels.
 
Clark1961 said:
I don't doubt the visually cleaner air and decreased ozone levels.
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We've certainly made strides, but there should be a reasonable balance. I can't imagine 4hp mowers were adding that much to pollution levels
 
Tantalum said:
That's why I got this one, my family always had B&S mowers and I remember them being very solid and tolerating just about any kind of abuse... but that would put it about 2-3 decades ago which I guess makes sense.

I just bought it and already took the carb apart once and have a few mows in.. at this point manually rigging the choke with my current set up is easier than taking the whole thing apart and returning it. Oh well. I will know for next time. Ultimately I don't mind working on small engines

**Seems Honda was able to get the compliant stuff right, wonder why B&S couldn't. We had / have a Honda outboard and it's bullet proof.. much more so than the Tohatsus (from my experience)

Tangentially related, Harley Davidson had some over leaning issues too to meet some regs: https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/harley-davidson-clean-air-act-settlement
From what I understand they would get to the dealership brand new but run so lean they would barely idle, so the dealers would "update" the firmware and then they would run fine. I think Harley's issue got very little media press because it was only $12M and it seemed "unAmerican" for the media to pile on them the way they did VW

P.S. - I understand the whole "we have one planet to live on", but some of this stuff borders on nonsense. You can't regulate something into submission or change certain laws of physics... you end up just spending a ton of money that ultimately stifles economic growth and tech advancement

Between the fines from GM, Fiat, VW, etc., I have to ask are we actually getting anything from this or do the fines just go to line the pockets of EPA officials?
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I have no problem with reasonable regulations. When they get to the point that the device doesn't work anymore, that's when they've gone too far.

On a related note, I finally found a gas can nozzle that meets EPA and state standards and can actually be used to dispense gas. It took about five years, but I finally found one.

https://www.amazon.com/No-Spill-6131-Gas-Nozzle-Assembly/dp/B001QCZQ7I

I'd been using a water nozzle, which was fine except that it riled up the DEP cops if they happened to notice me filling up at the gas station. Then I started using the older, approved-but-unusable nozzle just for the ride to the gas station, and would change it to the water spout when I got home. But that was kind of a hassle, too. The one in the link is the only one I've found so far that's actually usable.

Rich
 
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