Boy gets special ride to school -- in a helicopter; FAA alerted

Eeeek! Heaven forbid, and aircraft! Not on a flight plan! How could this happen!!!! Think of the children!!!
 
I definitely think the father should've at least requested to land on the school's property. Are helicopters required to gain permission before landing somewhere? Or is every piece of viable landing area fair game, even if there isn't an emergency?
 
wbarnhill said:
I definitely think the father should've at least requested to land on the school's property. Are helicopters required to gain permission before landing somewhere? Or is every piece of viable landing area fair game, even if there isn't an emergency?
Click to expand...

They can land anywhere where not illegal by local law if the pilot can plead it wasn't careless and reckless...until months later after the local town council has outlawed doing it again.
 
mikea said:
They can land anywhere where not illegal by local law if the pilot can plead it wasn't careless and reckless...until months later after the local town council has outlawed doing it again.
Click to expand...

Trespass is a law too...you can't just land somewhere without the permission of the property owner!
 
JeffDG said:
Trespass is a law too...you can't just land somewhere without the permission of the property owner!
Click to expand...

Funny. My neighbor down the court had to go out to open the gate on the lot she owns to let out the passengers on the Lifeflight helicopter that landed. They didn't ask ahead of time, or ever. She mentioned it like it was just a bother having to go out at 2 AM.

My only take was why didn't I hear it.
 
mikea said:
Funny. My neighbor down the court had to go out to open the gate on the lot she owns to let out the passengers on the Lifeflight helicopter that landed. They didn't ask ahead of time, or ever. She mentioned it like it was just a bother having to go out at 2 AM.

My only take was why didn't I hear it.
Click to expand...

Isn't LifeFlight emergency related?
 
wbarnhill said:
I definitely think the father should've at least requested to land on the school's property. Are helicopters required to gain permission before landing somewhere?
Click to expand...
Unless that "somewhere" is a designated public air/heliport, pretty much yes, unless it's an emergency.
Or is every piece of viable landing area fair game, even if there isn't an emergency?
Click to expand...
Absolutely not.
 
The simple way to look at helicopter ops are if you do an off airport landing have permission of the property owner as well as to check that it doesn't violate any local ordinances.

When I had my helicopter operation I would sometimes just fly one of the helicopters home after work and land in the back yard instead of driving.
 
Bunch of bleeping weenies in this country these days.
 
Ron Levy said:
Unless that "somewhere" is a designated public air/heliport, pretty much yes, unless it's an emergency.
Absolutely not.
Click to expand...

Doesn't that vary, at least by state if not by locale? I know you have to have prior permission in NJ for landings at other-than-helipads/airports, but in PA it is looser than that. I remember our late friend Bob Bruneau discussing it, but don't remember the details.

I've threatened my wife that I am going to get my helo lic so I can park one in the backyard, save me the drive (10mins) to the airport. Not likely to happen, mind you. But a boy can dream.....
 
flyersfan31 said:
Doesn't that vary, at least by state if not by locale? I know you have to have prior permission in NJ for landings at other-than-helipads/airports, but in PA it is looser than that. I remember our late friend Bob Bruneau discussing it, but don't remember the details.
Click to expand...

Yes. That's why it's important to check local laws as well as permission of the property owner before using the area as an LZ.

flyersfan31 said:
I've threatened my wife that I am going to get my helo lic so I can park one in the backyard, save me the drive (10mins) to the airport. Not likely to happen, mind you. But a boy can dream.....
Click to expand...

If you do get your Rotorcraft Rating you will throw rocks at your airplane. It's very addictive.
 
Last edited:
Ron Levy said:
Unless that "somewhere" is a designated public air/heliport, pretty much yes, unless it's an emergency.
Absolutely not.
Click to expand...

That's what I figured.

Father should've handled it differently. Just my two cents.
 
We have an equipment operator that tries to fly his Enstrom to work any chance he gets. So we check with the City and property owner usually getting a clear approval during regular noise making working hours!






"I'm a police officer and he most certainly did get away with murder. There's no other way to describe it,"
Heather Franc - holidaying at Chappaquiddick on 19 July 1969
 
wbarnhill said:
The one lesson I had got me hooked. It's a good thing I didn't have the cash available for it. :D
Click to expand...
The one lesson got me hooked so now I have some printing on my plastic which occasionally becomes a conversation piece when someone notices. :)
 
flyersfan31 said:
Doesn't that vary, at least by state if not by locale? I know you have to have prior permission in NJ for landings at other-than-helipads/airports, but in PA it is looser than that.
Click to expand...
I don't think there's any state in which you don't need the property owner's permission. The only question is whether local ordinances or zoning laws flatly prohibit landings even with permission.
 
When I was working as the drug officer for the sheriff's department we would fly the county looking for marijuania grows. There was a nice cafe that had a grassy area between the parking lot and the highway. We would have dispatch call them up and get permission to land for lunch. Something about landing a helicopter in the front of the business and guy's with guns getting out gets a lot of attention, plus real good service!:yes:
 
Ron Levy said:
Unless that "somewhere" is a designated public air/heliport, pretty much yes, unless it's an emergency.
Absolutely not.
Click to expand...

You might want to brush up on all 50 state laws before making an erroneous statement like that.
 
EdFred said:
You might want to brush up on all 50 state laws before making an erroneous statement like that.
Click to expand...

Do you know of some state that allows you to land anywhere in a non-emergency context without prior permission?

Because I want to live there. :D
 
I know of several places that you could land and no one would care. Not sure on the legality, but in the country side, people are not wound quite as tight and they are in the urban areas.

I think we are used to the boogey-man and he doesn't scare us quite as much.... :D
 
Cervelorod said:
I know of several places that you could land and no one would care. Not sure on the legality, but in the country side, people are not wound quite as tight and they are in the urban areas.

I think we are used to the boogey-man and he doesn't scare us quite as much.... :D
Click to expand...

Hey, if you can make it down into our backyard without destroying my radio antennas and don't have a problem with a nice slope.... Go right ahead. :D
 
wbarnhill said:
Do you know of some state that allows you to land anywhere in a non-emergency context without prior permission?

Because I want to live there. :D
Click to expand...

In the State of Michigan all navigable waterways are free to be used for takeoff and landing by sea-planes - with the exception of Reeds Lake, and Lake Angelus (I think it's this one). No permission required.

Michigan State Code also says this:

259.80d Landing aircraft.

Sec. 80d.
(1) An aircraft shall not land, except in an emergency, on private property, other than upon recognized landing areas, unless express permission is secured from the owner or lessee.
(2) A person shall not land an aircraft on a public highway, except in an emergency. A person shall not operate an aircraft on a public highway unless traffic is controlled by law enforcement officials. Lighter-than-air and emergency evacuation aircraft may take off and land on any public highway with prearranged traffic control.

Note that it does not address any public lands, just public highways.
 
Cervelorod said:
I know of several places that you could land and no one would care. Not sure on the legality, but in the country side, people are not wound quite as tight and they are in the urban areas.

I think we are used to the boogey-man and he doesn't scare us quite as much.... :D
Click to expand...

The countryside is not a "built-up area" as we in Canada call it. Not an issue. Landing in a schoolyard is just asking for the parents of other kids to start suing you, at least, never mind the lawmen salivating over an easy conviction.

Here's the Canadian law regarding it:

602.13 (1) Except if otherwise permitted under this section, section 603.66 or Part VII, no person shall conduct a take-off, approach or landing in an aircraft within a built-up area of a city or town, unless that take-off, approach or landing is conducted at an airport, heliport or a military aerodrome.

(2) A person may conduct a take-off or landing in an aircraft within a built-up area of a city or town at a place that is not located at an airport, heliport or a military aerodrome where


(a) the place is not set apart for the operation of aircraft;
(b) the flight is conducted without creating a hazard to persons or property on the surface; and
(c) the aircraft is operated
(i) for the purpose of a police operation that is conducted in the service of a police authority, or
(ii) for the purpose of saving human life.


Endquote.


So unless your (urban) back yard is designated as a heliport, it's out. And if you land anywhere else within the city, better have a real good reason.


I would imagine the FARs have something similar.



Dan
 
Dan Thomas said:
I would imagine the FARs have something similar.



Dan
Click to expand...

In the US it's more reasonable.



91.119 Minimum safe altitudes: General.

Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:
(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.
(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.
(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.
(d) Helicopters. Helicopters may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section if the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface. In addition, each person operating a helicopter shall comply with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the Administrator.
 
Last edited:
wbarnhill said:
Do you know of some state that allows you to land anywhere in a non-emergency context without prior permission?

Because I want to live there. :D
Click to expand...

Unless it has changed in the last 2 years, New Mexico has no law prohibiting landing of an aircraft anywhere, period.

Federal Lands may have different laws however.
 
I also thought Texas and Montana allowed planes to land on roads as long as they didn't cause problems for other traffic.
 
EdFred said:
I also thought Texas and Montana allowed planes to land on roads as long as they didn't cause problems for other traffic.
Click to expand...

I can't speak to Texas and Montana, but unless it has changed in the last 2 years, you can land on roads in New Mexico.
 
EdFred said:
You might want to brush up on all 50 state laws before making an erroneous statement like that.
Click to expand...
I don't need to "brush up on all 50 state laws" to know that my statements that:
  1. Except for emergencies, permission is pretty much always required outside a designated air/heliport, and
  2. It is absolutely not true that "every piece of viable landing area [is] fair game, even if there isn't an emergency."
...are not erroneous.
 
SkyHog said:
I can't speak to Texas and Montana, but unless it has changed in the last 2 years, you can land on roads in New Mexico.
Click to expand...

I was driving back from Mississippi last week and had just crossed back into Texas when I watched a crop duster land on the access road to IH-10. He ended up driving right in front of a cop in the process so I think you still can. This was a pretty remote part of the highway and I think his operation was the only drive to that particular part of the access road.
 
Ron Levy said:
I don't need to "brush up on all 50 state laws" to know that my statements that:
  1. Except for emergencies, permission is pretty much always required outside a designated air/heliport, and
  2. It is absolutely not true that "every piece of viable landing area [is] fair game, even if there isn't an emergency."
...are not erroneous.
Click to expand...

Ron,

You obviously live east of the Mississippi. Not everyone does.
 
alaskaflyer said:
Ron,

You obviously live east of the Mississippi. Not everyone does.
Click to expand...

I live east of the Mississippi (Florida) and was a helicopter operator. We rarely had any issues with off airport ops. As a matter of fact the EMS operators never call ahead for "permission" to land off airport.
 
Ron Levy said:
Please tell me which state allows helicopters to land on non-airport property without the owner's permission.
Click to expand...

But that isn't what was said before.

"...required to gain permission before landing..."

is a much different statement than

"allowed to land without the owner's permission."

It is perfectly legal to land many places without receiving affirmative prior permission. But of course it is not likely legal to land where that permission is specifically withheld.

Nowhere in Alaska law does it say that helicopters may land on most state lands. There is no regulation, no law that gives citizens that privelege. Yet I can assure you that it is perfectly legal. However, there are regulations and laws that affirmatively prohibit landings in certain areas.

Also, in many Western states there is no civil or criminal trespass on private property unless you affirmatively put the actor on notice that he is trespassing.

Kind of like a "open until closed" vs. "closed unless open" argument. There is no law that empowers me to land on the state highway either. But it is perfectly legal unless other regulations are busted.
 
Last edited:
Michigan law is written like the FARs.
If it's not forbidden it's legal. Maybe I shuold ask an airport manager in the state....

From the Michigan areo FAQs:

[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]May I land a seaplane on any lake? [/FONT] Answer: [FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]This issue is still being debated in the court system, but generally speaking, if there are no local zoning laws prohibiting motorized aircraft operations on the PUBLIC lake, you can land on it. Private lakes are considered private property and you will require prior permission from the owner. [/SIZE][/FONT]

http://www.michigan.gov/aero/0,1607,7-145-14494-34586--F,00.html
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top