Bought a New Ram - No Thinking Required

Zeldman said:
Y'all can play with your toy trucks. I stick with International Harvester.....:yes: This is a factory vehicle, not a custom job.

http://www.trucktrend.com/cool-trucks/0705dp-international-mxt-truck/


0705dp_07_z%2binternational_mxt_truck%2bdrivers_side.jpg


Body type: 7-foot pickup bed
Dimensions: 8 feet wide, 7 feet 7 inches tall, and 21 feet long
Horsepower: 300
GVWR: 14,500 pounds
Weight: 10,500 pounds
Chassis payload capacity: 4,000 pounds
Towing: Suitable for a variety of hauling configurations up to 15,500 pounds
Standard engine: International VT365, V-8 diesel (530 lb-ft of torque)
Transmission: Allison 2200 RDS five-speed automatic
Brakes: Hydraulic with four-channel ABS
Axles: Front-driving 6,500-pound capacity; rear-driving 11,000-pound capacity
Fuel tank: 40 gallons
Cab: Five-passenger, four-door crew cab with cab air-suspension system
Seats: Driver and passenger leather front seats; three-passenger leather rear bench seat
Wheels/tires: 20-inch Alloy Wheels and Pro Comp 40x13.50R20
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That thing is the definition of a toy-truck. Downrated to a point where it becomes useless. That chassis is good for 42k trucks and in this poser version you can barely load 4000lbs.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
One thing I'll say, though, is that I put 108,000 miles on my NV5600, mostly towing, and always in 6th gear. That transmission is still going strong. So I'm not sure who's had problems with it or if it was just the early ones, but for me, it was just fine. At >180k now it's still doing fine, according to my friend who bought it from me.
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I'm probably just paranoid about it from the stories. Keeping the temp under control probably does more for it than anything.

Ted DuPuis said:
I don't think the system has any way that you could easily put a button elsewhere. It all goes through the computer, so I may just have to live with it as-is. I've read up enough complaints on it that hopefully someone smarter than me can figure a work-around.

On the "full" setting, it just turns on as soon as you let off the throttle (well, I suppose 1/2 second or so delay). I haven't played much with the "auto" setting... I'll do that and see what I think of it.
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Maybe I have the descriptions / settings backward then, but I think one of them ties the thing to the first brake application. Maybe that's Auto. I dunno. Hey... you've got the POH! :)

Ted DuPuis said:
It does have the factory trailer brake system. This is the first truck I've owned that has a built-in system. Before that I had a Tekonsha Prodigy, which was (at the time) supposedly the best you could buy. Of course I bought it in 2003. It had a wire that got spliced into the brake light switch so it knew when you were hitting the brakes, and I never found it to have any odd behaviors as a result. When I bought my first truck in 2003 and was reading up on what brake controller to buy, everyone said the crappy brake controllers were a "get what you pay for" deal. So I bought the Prodigy, which everyone said was the one to get, and was very happy with it.

It'll be interesting to see how the built-in trailer braking does. I actually don't have a trailer with trailer brakes on it, so it may be a while before I find out. Maybe I'll offer to tow my houseback riding instructor's horse trailer somewhere to try it out, it has trailer brakes. In fact I helped her fix the wiring on it yesterday.
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You need a flatbed for your tractors. :)

I have a Prodigy P2. Supposedly the newer P3 is "mo bettah" but who knows? The downshifting problem is subtle and has to do with their "boost" setting. Boost 2 or 3 with a downshift while the brakes are applied, you can see the braking percentage bump up during the initial deceleration of the engine braking and then slack off as the RPM comes down, by about 10-15%. It's "feeling" the deceleration of the engine braking with its accelerometers, and thinking you're braking harder than you are.

I suspect the factory setup knows exactly how far you've depressed the brake pedal and knows it isn't moving, which would smooth that out completely.

A way to see this oddity with the Prodigy is to get set up in light braking and full engine braking and watch the controller if you put the clutch in and take the truck out of gear. It'll lower the trailer brakes considerably when the accelerometers sense that you aren't slowing as fast as you were with the truck in gear.

No big deal. Just noticeable. With an automatic the deceleration is pretty constant and the trailer brake controller's assumption that deceleration rate is an indication of brake application, is valid...

Well unless you're on snow/ice, and I'm not a fan of towing those trailers on either of those! :) That'll confuse even the driver, let alone the little accelerometers! :) :) :)
 
JGoodish said:
For half-ton? Fuel economy. For HD? Towing. The Titan XD does not seem to serve neither of those missions very well.
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If Nissan was trying to fix those things with only an engine swap, they failed miserably. :)

JGoodish said:
So says a truck buyer... hmmm.
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??? I wouldn't buy a Nissan. Not even the Frontier. Just don't like them. Nothing against anyone who does. ???
 
weilke said:
That thing is the definition of a toy-truck. Downrated to a point where it becomes useless. That chassis is good for 42k trucks and in this poser version you can barely load 4000lbs.
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Problem is most people are loading 4000 lbs on a 1/2 ton truck, and trying to pull 30,000lb trailers. Doesn't work for long.

At least the International will do it with ease and also has the brakes to stop those loads.
 
Zeldman said:
Problem is most people are loading 4000 lbs on a 1/2 ton truck, and trying to pull 30,000lb trailers. Doesn't work for long.

At least the International will do it with ease and also has the brakes to stop those loads.
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When I bought my first truck I had a dealer try to sell me an F-150 with the 300 straight six, saying "It's a straight six! It's a towing engine!" At which point I immediately knew I was dealing with an idiot.

That's also why I've never owned a 1/2-ton truck (we had an Avalanche, but that was my wife's). The new ones are a lot better than 10+ years ago without a doubt, as @jesse has shown towing my old boat with his F-150 EcoBoost, but all the ones I've used have been very underwhelming whenever given a load of any significance. My Ram has a payload rating of just under 4,500 lbs. I forget the tow rating, but it's something ridiculous as well. It would be virtually impossible for me to overload it. Hmm... that sounds like a challenge...
 
Ted DuPuis said:
When I bought my first truck I had a dealer try to sell me an F-150 with the 300 straight six, saying "It's a straight six! It's a towing engine!" At which point I immediately knew I was dealing with an idiot.

That's also why I've never owned a 1/2-ton truck (we had an Avalanche, but that was my wife's). The new ones are a lot better than 10+ years ago without a doubt, as @jesse has shown towing my old boat with his F-150 EcoBoost, but all the ones I've used have been very underwhelming whenever given a load of any significance. My Ram has a payload rating of just under 4,500 lbs. I forget the tow rating, but it's something ridiculous as well. It would be virtually impossible for me to overload it. Hmm... that sounds like a challenge...
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The dealer isn't wrong, a straight six is a towing engine. At least in truck applications they have a long stroke that equates to lots of TQ. Heck, semi trucks in the 50's and 60's only had inline six gas engines. The 300 six actually produced more tq than the 5.0 Windsor in it's time and over a broader curve.

Most half ton trucks today can tow more than 3/4 ton and some 1 ton trucks could 10 or 20 years ago. For most people they are more than capable of towing anything they ever need to. The 1/2 ton trucks can easily tow 12k lbs now which is a massive boat or camper which is what most of the trucks today are pulling. The problem is that most people don't equip a half ton for towing. I looked all over for a 1/2 ton GM with the max trailering package and there were only a hand full within 500 miles of me. Most people buy the gas trucks with 3.42 or higher gears and of course the truck is going to fall on it's face towing. Get the 3.73 gears or even the 4.10 (which hardly anyone offers anymore) and they will surprise you.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
When I bought my first truck I had a dealer try to sell me an F-150 with the 300 straight six, saying "It's a straight six! It's a towing engine!" At which point I immediately knew I was dealing with an idiot.

That's also why I've never owned a 1/2-ton truck (we had an Avalanche, but that was my wife's). The new ones are a lot better than 10+ years ago without a doubt, as @jesse has shown towing my old boat with his F-150 EcoBoost, but all the ones I've used have been very underwhelming whenever given a load of any significance. My Ram has a payload rating of just under 4,500 lbs. I forget the tow rating, but it's something ridiculous as well. It would be virtually impossible for me to overload it. Hmm... that sounds like a challenge...
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I know one guy who's done it. Pallets of retaining wall blocks.

the main thing on most 3/4 ton or better trucks is to watch rear axle weight and tire and wheel loads. even at max PSI, tires have a limit.
 
Grum.Man said:
The dealer isn't wrong, a straight six is a towing engine. At least in truck applications they have a long stroke that equates to lots of TQ. Heck, semi trucks in the 50's and 60's only had inline six gas engines. The 300 six actually produced more tq than the 5.0 Windsor in it's time and over a broader curve.
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He was a dealer trying to sell me a truck that wasn't going to do what I needed it to. Yes, I6s are common in towing by design and there are benefits to a 300-6 vs. a 302. The 300 was not going to work for what I wanted at all, and a 302 wouldn't have worked, either. I got my 20' trailer within a couple weeks of buying my truck and was doing 700+ mile hauls with vehicles on the back, going 70 most of the time. The gas engine wouldn't have been happy with that at all, but even the 6.5 diesel . Also, the F-150 wouldn't have towed nearly as well.

Most half ton trucks today can tow more than 3/4 ton and some 1 ton trucks could 10 or 20 years ago. For most people they are more than capable of towing anything they ever need to. The 1/2 ton trucks can easily tow 12k lbs now which is a massive boat or camper which is what most of the trucks today are pulling. The problem is that most people don't equip a half ton for towing. I looked all over for a 1/2 ton GM with the max trailering package and there were only a hand full within 500 miles of me. Most people buy the gas trucks with 3.42 or higher gears and of course the truck is going to fall on it's face towing. Get the 3.73 gears or even the 4.10 (which hardly anyone offers anymore) and they will surprise you.
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No doubt, the modern 1/2-tons are much better, as I said. But ratings vs. what they do well are another story. I don't think towing close to the max ratings most people end up being very comfortable. I know you like you don't mind pushing the limits of what the ratings say, but I want to be comfortable towing things down the highway when doing long hauls, which is what I've spent most of my driving career doing. I'd doubt that any of the current generation of 1/2-ton trucks do better than the 3/4 or 1-tons of 10 years ago in terms of hauling something comfortably (despite what the ratings may say), but 20 I would agree with. My first truck was a '97 C2500 diesel and that did alright but I'm sure Jesse's F-150 does better.
 
I don't care what my '08 F-150 or '07 GMC 1500 are rated at, I'm not towing 10K with it. I've towed two pallets of landscape stone on a 1500lbs steel-floored car hauler a year or two back (probably 8.5-9K lbs total). The engine had the power to do it (although my 3.55LS rear wasn't doing anything quickly), and I wasn't too concerned about the brakes, but the suspension was not anywhere near what I wold be confident in for a long-distance haul. I was only going 15-20 miles down the road. I don't mind people towing at capacity with their 1/2 tons, but I wouldn't pretend that it's as safe as a 3/4 ton from even 10 years ago. Sometimes suspension is the biggest piece of the puzzle you don't think about until it's not there.
 
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SoonerAviator said:
I don't care what my '08 F-150 or '07 GMC 1500 are rated at, I'm not towing 10K with it. I've towed two pallets of landscape stone on a 1500lbs steel-floored car hauler a year or two back (probably 8.5-9K lbs total). The engine had the power to do it (although my 3.55LS rear wasn't doing anything quickly), and I wasn't too concerned about the brakes, but the suspension was not anywhere near what I wold be confident in for a long-distance haul. I was only going 15-20 miles down the road. I don't mind people towing at capacity with their 1/2 tons, but I wouldn't pretend that it's as safe as a 3/4 ton from even 10 years ago. Sometimes suspension is the biggest piece of the puzzle you don't think about until it's not there.
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Exactly. My wife's 2003 Avalanche was like that. I did everything possible to upgrade the suspension, but it still didn't tow worth a damn from that perspective. Towing the boat from Ohio out to Kansas when we moved here was not fun. Would've been much happier with the current truck.
 
No offense intended but if loaded properly and following the tongue weight limits the suspension shouldn't be an issue. They make load leveling systems to fix that if you have something to tow that doesn't allow for proper tongue loads. My Escalade EXT has the load leveling suspension and road sensing shocks and handles its max tow rating quite easily. There is no doubt using a bigger truck makes more sense if routinely pulling max weights but there is nothing unsafe about pulling a max load with a half ton than a 3/4 ton.
 
Grum.Man said:
No offense intended but if loaded properly and following the tongue weight limits the suspension shouldn't be an issue. They make load leveling systems to fix that if you have something to tow that doesn't allow for proper tongue loads. My Escalade EXT has the load leveling suspension and road sensing shocks and handles its max tow rating quite easily. There is no doubt using a bigger truck makes more sense if routinely pulling max weights but there is nothing unsafe about pulling a max load with a half ton than a 3/4 ton.
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Most F250s around here seem to 'tow' a receiver mounted bike rack, a 2000,lb landscaping trailer with a couple of sheets of plywood or maybe a 16ft Jon-boat.
 
So Ted, ya dint tell us where the wheel fell off or what it took to git it back on. You can come clean and tell us that is why ya stopped for the night...
 
Grum.Man said:
No offense intended but if loaded properly and following the tongue weight limits the suspension shouldn't be an issue. They make load leveling systems to fix that if you have something to tow that doesn't allow for proper tongue loads. My Escalade EXT has the load leveling suspension and road sensing shocks and handles its max tow rating quite easily. There is no doubt using a bigger truck makes more sense if routinely pulling max weights but there is nothing unsafe about pulling a max load with a half ton than a 3/4 ton.
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The problem is being able to meet all of the parameters for max towing. If you've got 10K lbs in tow, your tongue weight is likely close to 1,500lbs, which likely exceeds the payload or axle weight ratings, as well as the class IV/V hitch most modern trucks are equipped with. Again, I never said it was unsafe, I said I wasn't comfortable/confident that the 1/2 ton had enough margin for error. When you're getting jerked around by the trailer with a 7K lbs skid loader bouncing around, it gets mildly disconcerting. The thicker/extra leaves in a 3/4-1 ton make a world of difference in my experience.


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Grum.Man said:
No offense intended but if loaded properly and following the tongue weight limits the suspension shouldn't be an issue. They make load leveling systems to fix that if you have something to tow that doesn't allow for proper tongue loads. My Escalade EXT has the load leveling suspension and road sensing shocks and handles its max tow rating quite easily. There is no doubt using a bigger truck makes more sense if routinely pulling max weights but there is nothing unsafe about pulling a max load with a half ton than a 3/4 ton.
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No offense intended, but you've made enough posts regarding your views on towing with lesser capacity vehicles that I don't think that your view of "handles its max tow rating quite easily" is the same as mine. If you're comfortable with it that's fine and I would agree that it's not necessarily unsafe so long as you go slow enough, which you don't seem to mind. I've towed long distances with 1/2-ton trucks near or at their max limit, and I've never enjoyed it. Yes, I've gone slower with those trucks than I would with 3/4 or 1-tons. Unsafe? No, but not comfortable. Meanwhile my Ram was comfortable at 80 with a loaded trailer. Did I tow it that fast regularly? No, but I normally would do 70 or so, same as the semis.
 
SoonerAviator said:
The problem is being able to meet all of the parameters for max towing. If you've got 10K lbs in tow, your tongue weight is likely close to 1,500lbs, which likely exceeds the payload or axle weight ratings, as well as the class IV/V hitch most modern trucks are equipped with. Again, I never said it was unsafe, I said I wasn't comfortable/confident that the 1/2 ton had enough margin for error. When you're getting jerked around by the trailer with a 7K lbs skid loader bouncing around, it gets mildly disconcerting. The thicker/extra leaves in a 3/4-1 ton make a world of difference in my experience.


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Well, my '17 F150 Ecoboost, 10K in tow isn't an issue. 1500 lbs of payload isn't an issue. 1500 lbs of tongue weight would be. Though 1200 lbs of tongue weight wouldn't be.

As much as I considered buying a larger truck I just couldn't justify it. If I was going to buy new then I definitely would want to park it in the garage. Any larger of a truck and there is no chance it would fit.

The biggest thing that I could realistically see myself wanting to pull within the next 10 years would be a 30-ish ft travel trailer. Most of them I'm looking at have a gross weight of 8,000-ish lbs. Based on everything I've read this is a non-issue in the truck and it'll do it comfortably all-day long.

Realistically I would probably only tow in such a configuration a couple thousand miles per year. If I were towing it around constantly I'd buy a diesel.

If I were in Ted's shoes, living where he lived, I probably would have bought exactly what he bought.

In my case I had to balance my space limitations, ****ty parking lot at work limitations, and any future mission I could see. So far, I'm quite happy with my choice. The truck has surprised me in every department. I don't think it'd feel underpowered no matter what the hell you hooked up to the back of it. The damn Ecoboost would rip out the front grill of the truck before it pretended to be underpowered.

As far as the Ecoboost tow performance this is all I know so far. I bought Ted's boat. Ted's boat is really ****ing heavy. At least 7,000 lbs.

-I towed Ted's boat to my house with a 2001 3/4 ton Duramax. It towed the boat easily.

-Next I towed it with my 1997 Chevy Silverado (5.7 V8). I applied the brakes at 5 mph and came to a stop three counties over. Needed new shorts. It was terrifying. I wanted to buy a Duramax. But I was cheap, so I wasted $500 trying to upgrade the brakes and scared the **** out of myself again. Serious Duramax shopping time begins....

-I shopped all over for a Duramax but I was not pleased with paying $20,000 for a 20 year old truck. That was too much money. I always spent <$2000 on all vehicles. Seems like nobody actually wanted to sell their Duramax.

-I went to the Ford dealer and spent $40,000+ on a new F150. I towed the boat with the new F150. It did it as well or better than the Silverado 2500 Duramax in every department (suspension, braking, power). Granted it is 16 years newer.

- I slept well at night.

- Ted sold me his boat. That lead to me buying a new truck. That lead to Ted buying a new truck. Along with two of my other friends buying new trucks.

Ted's boat was ****ing expensive.
 
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denverpilot said:
If Nissan was trying to fix those things with only an engine swap, they failed miserably. :)
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That is my point. I don't think that the engine (or the vehicle) really solves any problem that most truck buyers are looking to solve.

Then again, I suspect that the Japanese manufacturers are really just leveraging brand loyalty to capture their customers who want a truck. If they can make money with it, more power to them.


denverpilot said:
??? I wouldn't buy a Nissan. Not even the Frontier. Just don't like them. Nothing against anyone who does. ???
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If you want or need a mid-size, honestly the Frontier is one of the best out there (still), despite the design being well over a decade old.


JKG


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jesse said:
As much as I considered buying a larger truck I just couldn't justify it. If I was going to buy new then I definitely would want to park it in the garage. Any larger of a truck and there is no chance it would fit.

The biggest thing that I could realistically see myself wanting to pull within the next 10 years would be a 30-ish ft travel trailer. Most of them I'm looking at have a gross weight of 8,000-ish lbs. Based on everything I've read this is a non-issue in the truck and it'll do it comfortably all-day long.

Realistically I would probably only tow in such a configuration a couple thousand miles per year. If I were towing it around constantly I'd buy a diesel.

If I were in Ted's shoes, living where he lived, I probably would have bought exactly what he bought.

In my case I had to balance my space limitations, ****ty parking lot at work limitations, and any future mission I could see. So far, I'm quite happy with my choice. The truck has surprised me in every department. I don't think it'd feel underpowered no matter what the hell you hooked up to the back of it. The damn Ecoboost would rip out the front grill of the truck before it pretended to be underpowered.
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The fact that my Ram won't fit in the garage and thus needs to live outside (or in my shed, which it will fit in) was one of my holdups. But, my 2004 Ram that I bought new has lived its entire life outside, and the paint still looks good on it 13 years later from the pictures I saw. I figure if it's going to hail or we're going to leave it parked for an extended period I'll put it in the shed, otherwise it's fine outside. But my work parking situation is also pretty good, as is parking around here in general.

As far as the Ecoboost tow performance this is all I know so far. I bought Ted's boat. Ted's boat is really ****ing heavy. At least 7,000 lbs.

-I towed Ted's boat to my house with a 2001 3/4 ton Duramax. It towed the boat easily.

-Next I towed it with my 1997 Chevy Silverado (5.7 V8). I applied the brakes at 5 mph and came to a stop three counties over. Needed new shorts. It was terrifying. I wanted to buy a Duramax. But I was cheap, so I wasted $500 trying to upgrade the brakes and scared the **** out of myself again. Serious Duramax shopping time begins....
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Note here: Jesse's towing experience with the Silverado closely resembles my towing experience with the 2003 Avalanche on that same boat (although the Avalanche is a bit better than the '97 Silverado). It was at this point that I told Jesse he really needed to get a new truck, otherwise he'd waste a bunch more money working on the Silverado so that he could buy a new truck.

-I shopped all over for a Duramax but I was not pleased with paying $20,000 for a 20 year old truck. That was too much money. I always spent <$2000 on all vehicles. Seems like nobody actually wanted to sell their Duramax.

-I went to the Ford dealer and spent $40,000+ on a new F150. I towed the boat with the new F150. It did it as well or better than the Silverado 2500 Duramax in every department (suspension, braking, power). Granted it is 16 years newer.

- I slept well at night.
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And this more or less mimics what I did, but I added the extra step of buying the F-350. We need a long bed crew cab truck, 3/4 or 1-ton. Crew cab necessitated by the 3 kids who we often have to haul along, and long bed because when we buy stuff that goes in the bed of a truck, we buy a lot of it. 3/4 or 1-ton to account for the payload of what we put in (the F-350 has a ~3500 lb payload, and the Ram has ~4500). Looking at ~$20k prices for a 20 year old truck, I ended up spending significantly less on a truck that was going to require a total of over $20k (including purchase price) to get up to snuff. And at that point, we decided to bite the bullet on the new truck. Not cheap at all, which was why we didn't want to go that route. But at the moment no regrets, and my wife isn't complaining, either. This gives us a vehicle we can trust completely, can fit the whole family in, and will tow/haul anything we want. Works out well.

- Ted sold me his boat. That lead to me buying a new truck. That lead to Ted buying a new truck. Along with two of my other friends buying new trucks.

Ted's boat was ****ing expensive.
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It's funny how a $5,000 boat has generated on the order of $200,000 worth of economic activity in the past 3-6 months.
 
Matthew said:
Ted is making America great again!
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That's just how I roll.

I'd put in the YouTube video for "On A Boat" but I think that violates the RoC...
 
Ted DuPuis said:
That's just how I roll.

I'd put in the YouTube video for "On A Boat" but I think that violates the RoC...
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Ha! The last BVI trip, every afternoon after we picked up the mooring ball, we cued that song up, blasted it loud, and danced together on the cabin roof. Rum drinks may have been involved.
 
Bill Jennings said:
Ha! The last BVI trip, every afternoon after we picked up the mooring ball, we cued that song up, blasted it loud, and danced together on the cabin roof. Rum drinks may have been involved.
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I think Jesse needs to make that song cue up every time he turns on the battery on my old boat.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
It's funny how a $5,000 boat has generated on the order of $200,000 worth of economic activity in the past 3-6 months.
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And that would be a boat you no longer have, correct? Should we expect a new "Thinking About a Boat" thread?
 
Bill Jennings said:
Ha! The last BVI trip, every afternoon after we picked up the mooring ball, we cued that song up, blasted it loud, and danced together on the cabin roof. Rum drinks may have been involved.
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I like how you and your people roll. LOL.
 
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FormerHangie said:
And that would be a boat you no longer have, correct? Should we expect a new "Thinking About a Boat" thread?
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Correct, we no longer have that boat. Jesse does. I suppose I could go borrow it from him.

There's been a lot of thinking going on, and we haven't yet decided on what we wanted. By the time I started "Thinking About a Boat", we already had a pretty good idea that we wanted to buy one, and the question was more additional research and deciding what to buy.

There have been some additional thoughts. We thought about a lake house, which morphed into a house boat (neither of which are towable). At the moment I don't think either are in the cards. We really enjoyed our vacation to Florida, but part of that was being gone for a week, rather than a weekend. We're also not really camping people so I don't see a camper in the future.

What I think is more likely would be getting another boat in a few years, when the kids are old enough that we can go on a boat for a day and have it be more fun for everyone. The kids just were getting to the point on our boat where they were too mobile and not listening enough. I could see our next boat being something bigger most likely, but still trailerable. Maybe something where it would be feasible to do some level of overnights. Don't know. This relaxing thing is something we're still trying to figure out.

In the mean time, I have tractors to haul.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Correct, we no longer have that boat. Jesse does. I suppose I could go borrow it from him.

There's been a lot of thinking going on, and we haven't yet decided on what we wanted. By the time I started "Thinking About a Boat", we already had a pretty good idea that we wanted to buy one, and the question was more additional research and deciding what to buy.

There have been some additional thoughts. We thought about a lake house, which morphed into a house boat (neither of which are towable). At the moment I don't think either are in the cards. We really enjoyed our vacation to Florida, but part of that was being gone for a week, rather than a weekend. We're also not really camping people so I don't see a camper in the future.

What I think is more likely would be getting another boat in a few years, when the kids are old enough that we can go on a boat for a day and have it be more fun for everyone. The kids just were getting to the point on our boat where they were too mobile and not listening enough. I could see our next boat being something bigger most likely, but still trailerable. Maybe something where it would be feasible to do some level of overnights. Don't know. This relaxing thing is something we're still trying to figure out.

In the mean time, I have tractors to haul.
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I don't know how old your kids are, but yes, I think you're getting to that age where they are really hard to do stuff like this before they get really easy to do stuff like this.

mine are 5 and this year vs last year is night and day as far as taking them out on a boat for a day. by next year, i'd have no hesitation to plan a whole day trip with them
 
MIFlyer said:
I don't know how old your kids are, but yes, I think you're getting to that age where they are really hard to do stuff like this before they get really easy to do stuff like this.

mine are 5 and this year vs last year is night and day as far as taking them out on a boat for a day. by next year, i'd have no hesitation to plan a whole day trip with them
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This summer the kids were 4, 2, and 2 (twin girls). Our son turns 5 in a couple weeks, girls turn 3 in December. It was pretty difficult the times we went out this year. Plus, we're not a big fan of the local lake. The cops are always out hassling everyone, and the machine to buy yearly permits is always "broken" so they'll only sell you a daily permit. Daily permit = 1/3 the cost of a yearly permit.

We bought the boat when my wife was pregnant with the girls, and it worked well at first. It would also be fine if there was one kid, but 3 makes for constant chasing after one while the other two are getting into trouble. :)

My thought is summer 2019 will probably be when boating will get doable again.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
This summer the kids were 4, 2, and 2 (twin girls). Our son turns 5 in a couple weeks, girls turn 3 in December. It was pretty difficult the times we went out this year. Plus, we're not a big fan of the local lake. The cops are always out hassling everyone, and the machine to buy yearly permits is always "broken" so they'll only sell you a daily permit. Daily permit = 1/3 the cost of a yearly permit.

We bought the boat when my wife was pregnant with the girls, and it worked well at first. It would also be fine if there was one kid, but 3 makes for constant chasing after one while the other two are getting into trouble. :)

My thought is summer 2019 will probably be when boating will get doable again.
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I knew I liked you, I just didn't know it was because you're a twin dad too!

My girls are 5. We don't have any others so I don't exactly know what your experience is, but I'll say that if your girls are anything like ours, you're almost through the looking glass (1 year optimist, 2 year pessimist) and then it's all gravy for awhile. we did camp with them 5 times when they were 4 months old, but we realized that's exhausting. Next summer will probably still be mayhem to take them someplace and I probably wouldn't relish entire days on boats with 2 @ 3.5 years old, but by the summer after, you should be golden, unless you go for a 4th. :)

Now, at 5, it'd be a breeze to take them both somewhere all weekend or all day, but even a year ago, with two, it was pretty iffy.
 
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MIFlyer said:
I knew I liked you, I just didn't know it was because you're a twin dad too!

My girls are 5. We don't have any others so I don't exactly know what your experience is, but I'll say that if your girls are anything like ours, you're almost through the looking glass (1 year optimist, 2 year pessimist) and then it's all gravy for awhile. we did camp with them 5 times when they were 4 months old, but we realized that's exhausting. Next summer will probably still be mayhem to take them someplace and I probably wouldn't relish entire days on boats with 2 @ 3.5 years old, but by the summer after, you should be golden, unless you go for a 4th. :)

Now, at 5, it'd be a breeze to take them both somewhere all weekend or all day, but even a year ago, with two, it was pretty iffy.
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We are very much done having kids, but that would be a thread for "Medical Topics". Oh my, worst "Thinking about..." thread ever. ;)

It's good to hear that there is light at the end of the tunnel. I love the ages the kids are, but it is exhausting and you are limited on what you can practically do. The vacation we took to Pensacola a couple weeks ago was the first really fun/successful/pretty easy trip we've taken with all 3 kids. There were several reasons for that, but certainly age was a large part of it. What you're saying more or less confirms my previous thought that summer 2019 sounds more reasonable. And maybe at that point we'll start to get more interested in the idea of a houseboat (or just general boat we could sleep on), etc. for weekend getaways.

I didn't realize you were a fellow twin dad, either. Oh, and if you have twins you need to fly a twin. It's one of the rules. My wife says that the reason we ended up with twins is because I refuse to fly singles. :D
 
denverpilot said:
That came out creepy inserted into the discussion topic shift to their kids. LOL.

We'll just call you Jared... hahaha.
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Hahahaha I didn't even think about that...I was referring to Teds new truck. Hadn't even read to the end of the thread. lol that's hilarious
 
Ted DuPuis said:
We are very much done having kids, but that would be a thread for "Medical Topics". Oh my, worst "Thinking about..." thread ever. ;)

It's good to hear that there is light at the end of the tunnel. I love the ages the kids are, but it is exhausting and you are limited on what you can practically do. The vacation we took to Pensacola a couple weeks ago was the first really fun/successful/pretty easy trip we've taken with all 3 kids. There were several reasons for that, but certainly age was a large part of it. What you're saying more or less confirms my previous thought that summer 2019 sounds more reasonable. And maybe at that point we'll start to get more interested in the idea of a houseboat (or just general boat we could sleep on), etc. for weekend getaways.

I didn't realize you were a fellow twin dad, either. Oh, and if you have twins you need to fly a twin. It's one of the rules. My wife says that the reason we ended up with twins is because I refuse to fly singles. :D
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when i buy the Aztec, i'm going to stencil one of their names on each engine nacelle, they can carry us around after all the years we carried them.
 
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MIFlyer said:
when i buy the Aztec, i'm going to stencil one of their names on each engine nacelle, they can carry us around after all the years we carried them.
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Have you figured which one will be the critical engine? :D
 
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