Bonanza vs. everything else?

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Artimas

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Artimas
Can of worms time-

What do you think of Bonanzas?

Is a Bonanza the nicest flying, commonly available HP single? If so, why do you think it is.

I currently fly a 210, but am thinking of getting something newer and would consider a Bo. I sure like the double doors and interior comfort of the 210, though. Not getting any younger...

Thanks.
 
First question: what kind of Bo are you interested in? V-tail or A36? Bo's in general are nice flying airplanes. Reasonably fast. Relatively comfortable, although seating is pretty close/tight which is one way they get their speed.

Very easy airplanes to fly. Very balanced and handle nicely.

Textron owns both now, so your pretty much screwed on parts ($$$$) for either a Bo or 210.

I've flown both. I slightly prefer Bo's, but honestly, if you are happy with the 210, I don't see a huge reason to switch unless you just really want to have the sun beating down on you through all that plexi.
 
Since you are talking about double doors and are moving from a 6-seater, I assume you mean an 36-series. I have time in a number of types, including Bonanzas. They are, without a doubt, one of the most stable, comfortable, and easy to handle airplanes around. Their one downside from a handling standpoint is some lateral instability, which just means you have to pay attention when you fly.

My standing joke is that you have to work hard to land one poorly. I've had pilots call me that once, so I put them in the left seat of a 33-series I had teaching privileges in to prove it.

I can't compare it to the 210 though. I only flew one once.
 
What's your mission? Mooneys also fly really well, some people fit the taller bos better some people with long legs fit the Mooney better, which is actually slightly wider. If you wanna travel hard to beat a Mooney. Bo's are very pleasant to fly with lighter controls and are easier to land. Both require climbing up on a wing to get in...


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They're OK....I have one. I've also owned a Cherokee Six and a Cessna 150. So having a plane is nice....very nice. Having one equipped the way you like it (GPS and nice autopilot) with extra power is extra nice.

A new one is even more awesome.....:D
 
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I wouldn't touch a 210 with a 10 foot stick, but Bos are lovely airplanes.
 
So if you are interested in a new plane, the budget and how many seats do you really need? Solo I'd take an Ovation over an A36. Smal wife and you, Ovation. Bigger wife, Bo. Wife you and a kid, Bo.

You need to define first what you want to do with it, then shop the available options. My nice might not be your nice flyer.

Turbine Lancair, well ,now we are talking nice!
 
Artimas said:
What do you think of Bonanzas?
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They are great.

Is a Bonanza the nicest flying, commonly available HP single?
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Yes.

I currently fly a 210, but am thinking of getting something newer and would consider a Bo. I sure like the double doors and interior comfort of the 210, though. Not getting any younger...
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Do you still need 6 seats ? The A36 has two doors, except that both are on the same side of the plane and you still have to scoot over to get into the captains seat. Ingress for the back passengers is actually better than in the 210. Barn doors and a step-stool and you can load anyone still able to stand up from their wheelchair.

I don't know what 'newer' is in your book, with the A36 there is a steep step in price between the 1983 and 1984 model years. That is when Beech finally looked inside their competitors planes and realized that while everyone else had standardized on a more functional pattern. Is maximal useful load of importance to you ? Speed ? Altitude/climb capability ? Range ? The A36 is basically a modular system and you can get versions optimized in each of those areas.
 
midlifeflyer said:
...My standing joke is that you have to work hard to land one poorly. I've had pilots call me that once, so I put them in the left seat of a 33-series I had teaching privileges in to prove it...
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I don't believe that for a second. So if anyone is willing to put me in the left seat of a Bonanza, I'm willing to prove that theory right or wrong. :)
 
Timbeck2 said:
I don't believe that for a second. So if anyone is willing to put me in the left seat of a Bonanza, I'm willing to prove that theory right or wrong. :)
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There is a way to screw up a landing in a Bo or Baron for that matter and unfortunately many owners are guilty of it: landing way too damn fast.
 
I've been in a couple Bonanzas. Chalk me up as a Mooney guy.

Then again, I'd take a Velocity over either of those if given a chance. The velocity is a fantastic flying plane, unless you're looking to land at short unimproved strips.
 
Fearless Tower said:
There is a way to screw up a landing in a Bo or Baron for that matter and unfortunately many owners are guilty of it: landing way too damn fast.
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Add the Mooney to that list as well. Don't know why folks can't figure out how to slow a plane down for landing. Guess they figure coming in faster will keep them from suddenly falling out of the sky.... :rolleyes:

Can't kill all the OWT's out there... :sigh:

Cheers,
Brian
 
Fearless Tower said:
First question: what kind of Bo are you interested in? V-tail or A36?
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Even among V-tails, there is quite a variety. A lightweight early model with an E-series engine is very different from a late-model V35B in systems, performance, W&B issues and handling.

Anyone contemplating purchase of any Bonanza or Debonair should get and read a copy of Flying the Beechcraft Bonanza by John C. Eckalbar. It's an excellent review of the characteristics and idiosyncracies of the entire line, including much not found in the manuals.
 
What is the driving force that's making you consider a BO over the 210? I'd wanted a V-tail since I first saw one in the 70's so when my wife and I decided to upgrade to a retractable those are the first planes we looked at. I'm 6'4" and none of the three models we checked out were good fits for me. My knees didn't fit under the panel well. We couldn't afford a mid-70's or later model so that may have changed with more recent versions.

We tried Comanches, Mooneys (early 70's or older), an arrow, and three models of V-tails. We also tried a 210 and both my wife and I really liked it so that was our target. It turned out at that time that due to my lack of an Instrument ticket and no retractable time I couldn't get insured. One of the brokers asked if we'd considered a Cardinal. We hadn't but found one to get a ride in and ended up buying a 74 Cardinal RG.

It's been a very good choice for my wife and I. She has a very bad back and sciatica but is comfortable enough that we've flown up to 10-hours in one day on several occasions and have been to the Bahamas and the west coast from the Houston area. I still envy the extra speed my friends with 210's get but I like the 10gph or less (ROP) fuel consumption and the relatively cheap maintenance costs vs. what they pay.
 
Thanks for the replies.

Nothing wrong with the 210, I've had it for over 10 years and still like it. I'm just thinking if something might be better. My next plane will probably be my last, so I'd like to get the nicest thing I can afford to finish out my flying career. I think the Beech fit and finish is much nicer than Cessna. My friend's SR-22 does the job, but I didn't really like how it flies. It's still a consideration. I've flown Mooneys and I'm not comfortable in them. I prefer upright seating and more shoulder room. Maybe upgrade to a nice P210?

The mission I'm looking at is NYC area to KPBI area for 2 people as fast as is reasonably possible. Don't need 6 seats but I may want that for easy access for Angel Flights in the future. Wife wants air conditioning, and I'm sure I'd like it too, especially in Florida, so that's a must. The ability to get high if necessary to deal with turbulence, ice, and tailwinds would be nice, thus considering turbo. I doubt I can afford any plane that will do it nonstop in a reasonable leg time (dream plane is a TBM). The most I can sit is 3 1/2-4 hours, so I'm looking at 1 stop.

Newer avionics and a good autopilot are a must as well.

For discussion sake, let's say the budget is $250,000.

Thanks.
 
Artimas said:
I think the Beech fit and finish is much nicer than Cessna.
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That is generally true, but while the Beech workmanship is superior, plenty of folks have beaten the crap out of their Beech's over the years, so you still have to look carefully to find a good one.
 
Artimas said:
Thanks for the replies.

Nothing wrong with the 210, I've had it for over 10 years and still like it. I'm just thinking if something might be better. My next plane will probably be my last, so I'd like to get the nicest thing I can afford to finish out my flying career. I think the Beech fit and finish is much nicer than Cessna. My friend's SR-22 does the job, but I didn't really like how it flies. It's still a consideration. I've flown Mooneys and I'm not comfortable in them. I prefer upright seating and more shoulder room. Maybe upgrade to a nice P210?

The mission I'm looking at is NYC area to KPBI area for 2 people as fast as is reasonably possible. Don't need 6 seats but I may want that for easy access for Angel Flights in the future. Wife wants air conditioning, and I'm sure I'd like it too, especially in Florida, so that's a must. The ability to get high if necessary to deal with turbulence, ice, and tailwinds would be nice, thus considering turbo. I doubt I can afford any plane that will do it nonstop in a reasonable leg time (dream plane is a TBM). The most I can sit is 3 1/2-4 hours, so I'm looking at 1 stop.

Newer avionics and a good autopilot are a must as well.

For discussion sake, let's say the budget is $250,000.

Thanks.
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For that mission for two people you want a Mooney Ovation. Tremendous build quality and faster than the Bonanza. I've gone from Orlando to NYC area in 4 hours nonstop. Mine with FIKI goes 6 hours at 13gph economy cruise and 175kts, 970 useful load with low TKS tank.

You can get a very nice one for 250k. Here is an example.

http://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/1448679/2004-mooney-m20r-ovation2-dx




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I like them from afar - they are certainly very popular, and have a great reputation. I had to go with the poor man's Baron, the Twin Comanche. Because I am a poor man.
 
gsengle said:
For that mission for two people you want a Mooney Ovation. Tremendous build quality and faster than the Bonanza. I've gone from Orlando to NYC area in 4 hours nonstop. Mine with FIKI goes 6 hours at 13gph economy cruise and 175kts, 970 useful load with low TKS tank.

You can get a very nice one for 250k. Here is an example.

http://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/1448679/2004-mooney-m20r-ovation2-dx




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+1 on this. Before I decided my mission is better served by a twin I was 100% on Ovations. Everybody has their own favorite flavor of things but what an Ovation offers for the price, in my opinion, is unbeatable.
 
I guess if I couldn't fly tailwheel or find a nice A185, a V Bo might be an option.
 
I've been admiring J-through-P model 35s from afar for some time. They seem to be reasonably priced. Why don't I see clubs or partnerships with them the way you see with brand C or P?
 
GeorgeC said:
I've been admiring J-through-P model 35s from afar for some time. They seem to be reasonably priced. Why don't I see clubs or partnerships with them the way you see with brand C or P?
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I sure enjoyed my '59 K35. It had an upgrade to the 260 hp IO-470-N, same as in the N35 and P35, but no other speed mods. At its light 2950 lb MGW it cruised at 155 KTAS at 10K', at a hair under 11 gph lean-of-peak. Wonderful handling. Downsides were limited baggage room and a complex four-tank fuel system.
 
I fly a V35B. My serial is close to the end when the V35B was stopped being produced. I have flown other No models too.

The airframe is very predictable. Built solid, easy to work on, and one heck of a pilot-supported network. You have a question - someone will provide you an accurate answer and offer to help.

A36 has the double door and doesn't have the aft CG problem many V35's do. I put in additional nose weight and have tip tanks so I get higher useful loads and CG issues are very rare.

I fly almost exclusively IFR and at altitudes above 7000 and get upper 12's GPH recordings. Speed is 150-155 knots. IO520 motor. Could get a few more knots if I ran ROP but it's not worth the cost. Routinely climb with two people 100 knots at 1,000FPM. I am at sea level and these numbers will vary with temp.

If you have just two people, the Vtail is a great bird. 550 motor will get you a few additional knots over the 520. If you need more space get the A36. Vtail in crosswind landings is easier I might add.

Regarding legroom someone mentioned, you can also invert the single yoke so the V is up as opposed to down. Much more leg room. Just saying...

Zero hours in a 210 so I can not compare. Good luck as you work through your decision.
 
I agree with everything you said....cept you ain't putting two full grown adults in the rear two seats of an A36. It does have CG issues with all seats full.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
I agree with everything you said....cept you ain't putting two full grown adults in the rear two seats of an A36. It does have CG issues with all seats full.
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So does a V35B, well, 5 seats so 5 total anyway. Flown many V35B and A36 hours.
 
Fearless Tower said:
There is a way to screw up a landing in a Bo or Baron for that matter and unfortunately many owners are guilty of it: landing way too damn fast.
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Even then you have to work at it unless you combine a too fast landing with a too short runway. Unlike Cezznas and Moonies the Bonanzas don't tend to porpoise or crow hop if you touch down too fast or too flat. But you're right, a lot of Bo drivers flare and touch down much faster than they should, possibly because they can get away with it.
 
gismo said:
Even then you have to work at it unless you combine a too fast landing with a too short runway. Unlike Cezznas and Moonies the Bonanzas don't tend to porpoise or crow hop if you touch down too fast or too flat. But you're right, a lot of Bo drivers flare and touch down much faster than they should, possibly because they can get away with it.
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But they DO go off the runway. That and landing gear up are the primary ways of screwing up a landing in a Beech.
 
Artimas said:
Thanks for the replies.

Nothing wrong with the 210, I've had it for over 10 years and still like it. I'm just thinking if something might be better. My next plane will probably be my last, so I'd like to get the nicest thing I can afford to finish out my flying career. I think the Beech fit and finish is much nicer than Cessna. My friend's SR-22 does the job, but I didn't really like how it flies. It's still a consideration. I've flown Mooneys and I'm not comfortable in them. I prefer upright seating and more shoulder room. Maybe upgrade to a nice P210?

The mission I'm looking at is NYC area to KPBI area for 2 people as fast as is reasonably possible. Don't need 6 seats but I may want that for easy access for Angel Flights in the future. Wife wants air conditioning, and I'm sure I'd like it too, especially in Florida, so that's a must. The ability to get high if necessary to deal with turbulence, ice, and tailwinds would be nice, thus considering turbo. I doubt I can afford any plane that will do it nonstop in a reasonable leg time (dream plane is a TBM). The most I can sit is 3 1/2-4 hours, so I'm looking at 1 stop.

Newer avionics and a good autopilot are a must as well.

For discussion sake, let's say the budget is $250,000.

Thanks.
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You can get a petty nice older pressurized twin for that kind of dough, if you can afford the Opex.
 
skier said:
I've been in a couple Bonanzas. Chalk me up as a Mooney guy.

Then again, I'd take a Velocity over either of those if given a chance. The velocity is a fantastic flying plane, unless you're looking to land at short unimproved strips.
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What he said ... I had a Velocity FGSE with fixed wood prop and it was every bit as my fathers (VERY nice) Mooney 201. I'll admit he had a better panel, but I found the Velocity much more comfortable. I'm only 5'10" and around 180 lbs and found my right leg sore from resting against the center column on the Mooney after 3 hours or so. Compared to the Velocity, the Mooney was a bit more challenging to land. The Velocity can make you a bit of a sloppy pilot if you let it ... I felt like I could land at about any dang speed I wanted.

All above said, the Velocity is NOT a short or grass field plane. I miss my Velociy :(
 
DavidWhite said:
I wouldn't touch a 210 with a 10 foot stick, but Bos are lovely airplanes.
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Do you dislike 210 because of losing oil in flight back then, or is there another reason?
 
Fearless Tower said:
But they DO go off the runway. That and landing gear up are the primary ways of screwing up a landing in a Beech.
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I'm sure they do but I don't recall reading about any Bonanza overruns in the last several years but the gear-ups just keep on happening. FWIW, the gentleman I bought my B55 from flew his VMC approach at something like 120 KIAS (Vso * 1.8) touching down over 100 KTAS when he demoed the plane for me. Looking at the logs I discovered that he went through a set of brake pads and tires almost every year and he averaged about 30 hrs per year of hobbs time over the same period.
 
Aside from the six seater if that's even a requirement, have you tried a Cessna/Columbia 400? One of my buddies has one and loves it. He paid about ~$250k for it a couple years ago. The only thing really that it won't give you unless you spring for a later model ($$$) is FIKI.
 
zaitcev said:
Do you dislike 210 because of losing oil in flight back then, or is there another reason?
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Well, the entire hydraulic system crapped on me, and I had to burn my hand manually pumping the gear down because of a poor gear design and pump location.

Cessna makes great airplanes, but I wouldn't touch any of their swingy gear airplanes.

I think we have 5 or 6 members here who have had gear issues in 210s. I don't know of any who have had the same in a bonanza
 
DavidWhite said:
I think we have 5 or 6 members here who have had gear issues in 210s. I don't know of any who have had the same in a bonanza
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Had to crank the gear down in my K35 once. Mechanic said the motor was "gummed up" -- just cleaned it out and it was fine after that.

I was a little antsy on landing, because the prior owner said he cranked it down after an electrical failure, and the nosegear folded because it "hadn't been cranked far enough." My landing was uneventful.

Otherwise the gear was trouble-free in five years of ownership. Spent more time and money fussing with the fiberglass wheel fairings on my Grumman Cheetah than on the Bonanza gear.
 
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