Bonanza gear light

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JOhnH

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I need to replace the gear light in my 2-light setup. The part is a GE-330 but I am wondering if I can buy one in the aviation aisle of my local auto parts store or bulb store, or does it have to be have the aviation blessing?
 
JOhnH said:
I need to replace the gear light in my 2-light setup. The part is a GE-330 but I am wondering if I can buy one in the aviation aisle of my local auto parts store or bulb store, or does it have to be have the aviation blessing?
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As long as it’s GE-330, or a cross reference part you’re fine. NAPA might have them.
 
Doc Holliday said:
As long as it’s GE-330, or a cross reference part you’re fine. NAPA might have them.
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Doc nailed it, any local source for that bulb. To remove the cover, its just keep turning to close (counter clockwise l think). I just don't' remember and I'm not near the plane today.

My V Tail Bonanza just had all the bulbs replaced this way (hw store bulbs). Its a great time to break out a little contact cleaner inside the base. There are bulbs behind the panel that illuminate the gear down and flap deflection that tend to get overlooked. Those have a blue "sleeve" on them that dims and colorizes the light. The same blue sleeve is on the glare shield lights. There should be bulbs behind the breaker panel that also get overlooked too.

Edited to be counterclockwise turn
 
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JOhnH said:
I need to replace the gear light in my 2-light setup. The part is a GE-330 but I am wondering if I can buy one in the aviation aisle of my local auto parts store or bulb store, or does it have to be have the aviation blessing?
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I tried turning the intensity up and down to no avail. I swapped positions of the upper (working) light with the lower light. Now, they both work. ???
But I'm going to order a few spares anyway. Possibly LED, but I'm not sure if I want them if they won't be dimmable.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
Using your logic .... A GE 4313 bulb is the same as a PAR 36 bulb....so one could use any old LED PAR 36 bulb?
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My "logic"??? The OP asked about a GE-330.

I'm not sure what the equivalent part number that cross references the GE bulb. Aircraft Spruce writes this in their catalogue under GE-330

Note: GE brand bulbs will be provided if available. Some model lamps are no longer manufactured by GE, in which case we will provide an equivalent lamp meeting the same specifications.

www.aircraftspruce.com

GE Bulb GE-330 14V .08A | Aircraft Spruce

GE Bulb GE-330 14V .08A Miniature lamps for cockpit / wing / tail lights.
www.aircraftspruce.com www.aircraftspruce.com

Not sure why you are trying to mix an LED bulb and an incandescent bulb as being "the same".
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
Using your logic .... A GE 4313 bulb is the same as a PAR 36 bulb....so one could use any old LED PAR 36 bulb?
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no. par stands for parabolic aluminized reflector #36 its a size standard not an SAE standard such as a GE4313. using any old par36 led from tractor city does not cut it. a lot of parts manuals state the bulb number such as GE4509. technically, since led bulbs are made to a different SAE standard, an led PAR36 does not meet the SAE standard of a normal light, so a FAA-PMA light or an STC'ed bulb such as the whelen needs to be used to be legal.
 
unsafervguy said:
no. par stands for parabolic aluminized reflector #36 its a size standard not an SAE standard such as a GE4313. using any old par36 led from tractor city does not cut it. a lot of parts manuals state the bulb number such as GE4509. technically, since led bulbs are made to a different SAE standard, an led PAR36 does not meet the SAE standard of a normal light, so a FAA-PMA light or an STC'ed bulb such as the whelen needs to be used to be legal.
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Damn. I must be getting old when I know longer know how to change a light bulb.:(
 
unsafervguy said:
no. par stands for parabolic aluminized reflector #36 its a size standard not an SAE standard such as a GE4313. using any old par36 led from tractor city does not cut it. a lot of parts manuals state the bulb number such as GE4509. technically, since led bulbs are made to a different SAE standard, an led PAR36 does not meet the SAE standard of a normal light, so a FAA-PMA light or an STC'ed bulb such as the whelen needs to be used to be legal.
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Bulbs are not FAA-PMA.....that's the issue. Nor is a landing light required for part 91 ops.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
Bulbs are not FAA-PMA.....that's the issue. Nor is a landing light required for part 91 ops.
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true, but they have to be a "standard part" thats what the SAE standard is all about for light bulbs. anyone manufacturing a light bulb numbered as a say, 4509 must meet the SAE standard for that number. PAR 36 led replacements are not manufactured to that standard, because SAE has a different standard for LED bulbs. thats why they are marketed as a PAR 36 replacement for a 4509. they cant call it a 4509. the only way you can legally install an LED landing light in an aircraft certified with a standard bulb is with an approved replacement part. your right, nobody has been issued a PMA to sell one. thats why whelen went through the trouble and expense to get the STC.

now as to a landing light being require, you are also right. however, if you aircraft was certified with one in it, they you must properly document it if its inop. it must be deactivated, or removed the switch needs to be labled inop, and a maintenance entry needs to be made.
 
unsafervguy said:
true, but they have to be a "standard part" thats what the SAE standard is all about for light bulbs. anyone manufacturing a light bulb numbered as a say, 4509 must meet the SAE standard for that number. PAR 36 led replacements are not manufactured to that standard, because SAE has a different standard for LED bulbs. thats why they are marketed as a PAR 36 replacement for a 4509. they cant call it a 4509. the only way you can legally install an LED landing light in an aircraft certified with a standard bulb is with an approved replacement part. your right, nobody has been issued a PMA to sell one. thats why whelen went through the trouble and expense to get the STC.

now as to a landing light being require, you are also right. however, if you aircraft was certified with one in it, they you must properly document it if its inop. it must be deactivated, or removed the switch needs to be labled inop, and a maintenance entry needs to be made.
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Got any references for that?....I've been discussing this with a few ACO folks. ;)

I don't believe the SAE part is a requirement....and where in the 4509 does it say SAE? And show me where this is a "standard part".
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this gets very deep and involved, but it all comes down to FMVSS (federal motor vehicle safety standards) that is the controlling regulations on vehicle lighting standards. years ago, SAE was about the only standards organization out there as far as motor vehicles are concerned. there are a lot now, but they all must comply with FMVSS. so, back when henry ford was still building cars and the government decided that they needed to regulate them the SAE standards became the organization that came up with the standards the government accepted. so any bulb labled with an SAE standard number would meet regs, and the manufacture is responsible to show that their product meets the standards. they do not have to mark it SAE, but by marking it GE4509 it shows the manufactures mark and that signifies compliance. where this comes into aviation is that the FAA accepts standard parts as acceptable as long as traceability is acceptable. thats why you can order AN bolts from AS, they have the documents to show compliance. buying your bolts from joe bobs harware may not satisfy the FAA for tracability for the bolts. as for light bulbs all the manufactures that put a standard number on a bulb have show it meets requiresment be it GE,bosch ect. SAE is not required, there is a lot of overlap with other agencies ANSI, ect, but any light bulb marked 4509 will meet the standards for a 4509 and becuse they are allowed to use that number, the FAA will accept that as a "standard part" the bottom line is a PAR 36 bulb does not meet any approved standard except for size, so without proper documentation the FAA will not accept is as a "standard part" because it does not meet the standards to be called a 4509. if you look in a piper pa28 parts manual it calles out a GE4509 by number. you can use any manufactures 4509, but you cannot use a PAR36.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
How's this for a cross reference?
4509

Larsen Lights, LED lights for your equipment !. PAR-36 LED Lights

HID & Led Work Lights for Off Road, Farm and Construction
www.larsenlights.com www.larsenlights.com
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worthless for an aircraft. all it says is that it is the same size as a 4509. as i have said, an LED cannot be called a 4509 because the standards to define a 4509 cannot be used to evaluate a LED light, thats a different standard.
you notice it only say can replace a 4509, yea, its the same size.
 
So the packaging says it meets an industry standard? Bulbs for the Bonanza list a number 4313....Beech doesn't make bulbs...nor do they source an approved bulb.

I can find many bulbs that have the 4313 that are filament....and LED. So, which ones as an A&P do I use?

BTW....these are "tractor" bulbs....not automotive.....and landing or taxi bulbs are not required for part 91 non-commercial operations.
;)
 
use what ever you want, just remember your ticket is on the line when the FAA askes for documentation that the part is approved.
 
 

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again, drop in replacement, no mention that it is a specific number, only par 36, the sae number given is the standard for lead free construction not the bulb standard. also figure 66b of the bonanza IPC calls out the bulb number. you want aviation grade, to quote tommy calahan, " i can take a s.. in a box and mark it guaranteed, but all you get is a guaranteed box of s.." the only standard that bulb meets is par 36 size, and lead free construction. funny how when you click on product description it says "for aircraft experiment only" does not sound like it has a any documentation to show its an approved part to me.
 
Some Whelen WAT bulbs no longer need a STC. They have now been FAA approved as a standard replacement. Now if you just have a landing light, and you try to change it to a taxi/landing light it will need a Stc. Because of extra switch and wiring.
 
Bacho said:
Have any examples of this?
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there a re plenty of cases where certificate actions were taken for unapproved part, granted, i doubt they would go after a certificate for a landing light. however, the point is they could, and do you want to fight the FAA. under the FAA SUP program there are a lot of documents that discuss "standard parts". here is portion of one ofthe documents from that program. I will leave it up to everyone to make their own decisions, but does a Chinese LED light bought at "tractors are us" or amazon meet this standard?

 
Checkout_my_Six said:
Using your logic .... A GE 4313 bulb is the same as a PAR 36 bulb....so one could use any old LED PAR 36 bulb?
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PAR 36 is a style, not a part number. 4313 is a part number. There were several automotive PAR 36s part numbers before the old glass sealed-beam headlights were replaced with the plastic stuff and halogen lamps.

The aircraft's parts catalog is the place to find the part number. The Bonanza's parts catalog apparently lists a 330 as the number for the bulb the OP needs. It is a T1-3/4 style bulb. There are 12 and 24-volt version of that style, as well as other wattage ratings of it.

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Checkout_my_Six said:
Again....landing/taxi bulbs are not approved parts.
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yes they are. you really don't understand the idea of a standard part. its this simple. the manufacture puts the part in the plane, the plane is certified, that part becomes a certified part. now, the FAA says, "that is a 4313 bulb. it meets SAE specs for a 4313, so any bulb manufactured under the SAE spec for a 4313 is a certified part as long as the manufacture follows the specs for that bulb. so what you either don't understand, or will not accept, is that a LED advertised as a par 36 is not a standard part under the FAA guidelines. it was not manufactured to the SAE spec for a 4313. you can try to justify it under a minor mod, but you cannot call it a approved part because its a standard part.
 
Dan Thomas said:
I haven't seen anything in the FARS that offers guidance.
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The guidance combines the Part 1 definition of a major / minor and the Part 43 Appendix A(a). But in general, there are two routes to install parts on a TC aircraft: as a replacement part which conforms to the original type design or as an alteration part which alters the original type design. There are also other guidance docs that assist like AC 43.210.
 
unsafervguy said:
yes they are. you really don't understand the idea of a standard part. its this simple. the manufacture puts the part in the plane, the plane is certified, that part becomes a certified part. now, the FAA says, "that is a 4313 bulb. it meets SAE specs for a 4313, so any bulb manufactured under the SAE spec for a 4313 is a certified part as long as the manufacture follows the specs for that bulb. so what you either don't understand, or will not accept, is that a LED advertised as a par 36 is not a standard part under the FAA guidelines. it was not manufactured to the SAE spec for a 4313. you can try to justify it under a minor mod, but you cannot call it a approved part because its a standard part.
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I'm calling it a minor and logging it.

If you want to SMS this and run a full blown hazard analysis....there is nil risk to this. This is the BS that frustrates most as to why folks can't do common sense maintenance on certified aircraft.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
I'm calling it a minor and logging it.

If you want to SMS this and run a full blown hazard analysis....there is nil risk to this. This is the BS that frustrates most as to why folks can't do common sense maintenance on certified aircraft.
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if you want to call it a minor, that's up to you as an A&P.

as to common sense maintenance, have you done any testing or have any data to show that your tractor light is not pumping out so much electrical noise that your radios, transponder, adsb or gps is not getting effected? there is more to a high power LED than a simple light bulb. bottom line is if someone brings me an aircraft with a cheap chinese LED landing light in for an annual, its going out the door with a discrepancy list rather than an annual sign off.
 
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