BMW *sigh*

We're on our third 3 series BMW. A 1990 convertible we kept for 10 years. A 1999 sedan we kept for 10 years. A 2008 convertible we now own. All great cars and very reliable.

We're on our third Porsche, following a 944 a long time ago, one of the last of the air cooled 911s a sort of long time ago, and now a Boxster. All excellent cars.

All of the Hondas I've had have been troublefree transport for as long as I owned them. Currently the Pilot is at 180K miles and runs like new.

My 1990 Dodge Durango, on the other hand, 23 trips to the dealer in 4 years/48K miles.
 
us AAirways said:
Looks like they are replacing the battery.

I think it is something with the security/smart key system because everything powered up....push the button again to start and nothing, not even a click.
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If you don't even get a click it has nothing to do with the key system. Battery might be toast and no power to turn it over but enough to power the electronics maybe?

When the key/security module go "out of alignment" the car will crank over, just never actually start. Had it happen to my X5, sudden catastrophic battery failure is what they called it. Only problem I've ever had with 7 new Bimmers, so experiences vary dramatically owner to owner. BTW, was a simple fix and a quick diagnosis to find it so if the dealership has taken days to figure it out and it's a dead battery, it's time to find a new dealer and contact BMW NA and tell them of the loooong diag time for a simple problem.

Steve
 
For those who prefer data vs. anecdotes, the 2013 JD Powers initial quality numbers are interesting, particularly if it's been awhile since you've looked at them.

(I also see Fiat has resumed the the space they used to hold when last selling cars here :) )


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Here are the "long term" (owners of 3 year old car) numbers.

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Interesting topic! 3 BMW's no issues, 1 Audi no issues. Ford needed 2 engines by 30K miles. Jeep was decent, check engine light always came on though.
 
ElPaso Pilot said:
Here are the "long term" (owners of 3 year old car) numbers.



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What a dumb list. Many if those are made by the same company. Lexus and Toyota for instance. Or Chevrolet and GMC being split. You can still see the correlation but it's not quite right to do it strictly by brand.

One could also argue that it gives no indication of price on the problems seen. Replacing a $100 dollar window motor vs replacing a transmission aren't quite the same type of problem.

And 3 years? Hell. The newest vehicle outside is a 2008 and we got it this year. Before that it was a 2004. ;)
 
Ken Ibold said:
Sorry to hear that. I like new cars. But I also keep them for a long time. Must be why my garages and driveway are so crowded.
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Our 4-wheel stable...

2005 Honda Element (bought new)
1993 Toyota Land Cruiser (bought used)
2007 Jeep Wrangler (bought used, just recently)

No reason to upgrade any for now. The Element may give way to some sort of EV or hybrid if and when the range goes up and the price goes down. The Land Cruiser may go if and when we need a newer tow vehicle.
 
denverpilot said:
What a dumb list. Many if those are made by the same company. Lexus and Toyota for instance. Or Chevrolet and GMC being split. You can still see the correlation but it's not quite right to do it strictly by brand.

One could also argue that it gives no indication of price on the problems seen. Replacing a $100 dollar window motor vs replacing a transmission aren't quite the same type of problem.

And 3 years? Hell. The newest vehicle outside is a 2008 and we got it this year. Before that it was a 2004. ;)
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ummm, it's a summary list. The JD Power data drills down to every individual model as well.

Even the summary is useful, however.

On a new car, a large perception of quality is how many times it has to go back to the dealer, not the cost of the repairs, since these are mostly warranty claims anyway.

Grouping by brands under a nameplate talks to the manufacturer's corporate quality program execution as well as customer expectations for said brand.

Toyota vs. Lexus? The sheet metal and power trains may be the same on a few models, but they are optioned very differently, and the optioned components are often designed by different teams and sourced from different suppliers. The Toyota line also has a number of lower end models that Lexus doesn't.

GMC vs. Chevy? I've never seen a 'vette or any of the passenger car models sold with a GMC badge on it.

Even the cars that are "badge engineered" and come down the same lines vary on these lists from demographic differences (expectations of quality) and a specific age group being able (or not able) to navigate a touch screen without taking it back to a dealer because it "broke."
 
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If BMWs were made in America it would be Appalachian Auto Works and the line would be staffed by Cletus... :rofl:
 
I have owned a jeep liberty, 2008 toyota 4runner, and as of now a 2012 audi a4. By far the best car in terms of quality and no hassle operation has been the 4runner.
 
Ken Ibold said:
Sorry to hear that. I like new cars. But I also keep them for a long time. Must be why my garages and driveway are so crowded.
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Nothing to be sorry about. The truck I got this year is a 2001 and it's great. Could buy two more of them for the price of a new one. Having a ball making noise with it. Every big kid should have a stick shift diesel one-ton with an exhaust brake. Heh.

Still looking for the right used fifth wheel to pull with it. ;)
 
denverpilot said:
One could also argue that it gives no indication of price on the problems seen. Replacing a $100 dollar window motor vs replacing a transmission aren't quite the same type of problem.
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I agree.

The other problem with those raw numbers is there is no indication of problem type and fixes required.

One of the worst marketing decisions some of the luxury auto makers ever did, IMHO, was to build and sell an "affordable" line. With easier credit and a 30k entry price point Mercedes, Jaguar, BMW et al attracted an audience that expected perfection from the badging without considering that most of those cars were not the same as the 50-60k+ models just optioned differently. Build was the same, mark was the same but the parts and suppliers were different and the brands suffered. Some took the lesson and improved the model C-Class Mercedes for example, some dropped the offending line, Jaquar x-type.

For the OP, however, enjoy it when you get it back. The BMW 1-Series has an almost cult like following, and I'll admit that my daughter's 135 is a blast to drive, but in the end it's an entry level luxury car designed to get you sold on the brand so use that to your advantage and call BMW NA with your concern of a week long diagnosis for a simple battery issue. They can get you satisfied with your experience.

Steve
 
I sincerely hope that your dealer has a better service department than the one in central Arkansas. First & last BMW (2008 328i) and last of any kind where the nearest service dept. is over 50 miles away.
 
us AAirways said:
Looks like they are replacing the battery.

I think it is something with the security/smart key system because everything powered up....push the button again to start and nothing, not even a click.
Click to expand...

If it's taken them three days to decide to replace the battery I think you need to take the vehicle to another service department.

There are specific troubleshooting for no-starts on computer driven cars - and one of the first ones is battery voltage. If the voltage is off it becomes a no-start situation.
 
comanchepilot said:
If it's taken them three days to decide to replace the battery I think you need to take the vehicle to another service department.

There are specific troubleshooting for no-starts on computer driven cars - and one of the first ones is battery voltage. If the voltage is off it becomes a no-start situation.
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I was wondering that. If the battery was down to say 8 volts if the computer would even let it try to crank?

The next closest dealer is about 90 miles away. :(

I'll see what happens when I get back. Hopefully just the battery.
 
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My wife has a Mini Cooper built by BMW. I won't bore you with the crap we've had to put up with on that car. It's a POS.

One example, is the rear camber adjustment. There isn't any except to replace the bushings in the lower control arm. I had to pay $300 to get adjustable control arms to fix the rear camber. At least my cheap azz Focus has an adjustment on the control arm.

Nothing is built with quality on the Mini, I wish we'd never seen it, but we're in it now.
 
Jaybird180 said:
I have had mixed success with non-OEM parts. I've got non-OEM rear pads on and non-OEM brake fluid and motor oil/ filter, then I'm 100% again. I'll keep the LubroMoly oil and the Blue brake fluid though. I use BavAuto
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If I know the brand name is trustworthy, like Moog or Bosch, I'll use an aftermarket part. If I'm not absolutely sold on the reputation of the supplier, I get the OEM part. My experience with non-OEM parts has been dismal the last few years.
 
Years ago a German co-worker kept referring to BMWs as "BMTroubleus". He wasn't fond of them. Drove a Subaru. This was in the mid 1980s in Germany.

People's experiences vary. I've got a 1999 Jeep Wrangler with about 188,000 miles on the clock. Currently loaned to our son as his 1999 Ford Mustang is absolutely useless when it snows. My wife drives a 2006 Jeep Commander with close to 120,000 miles on it. Runs fine, but there is a recall we need to address (probably during Christmas break). Then there's my 2013 Ford Escape. Pushing 10,000 miles, and the only reason it has seen the dealer's service department is for an oil change (free). I hope it turns out to be as reliable as the last Ford product I bought, an 1988 1/2 Escort that ran and ran and ran. Only mistake I made buying that Escort was buying the extended warranty. Never used it. Most reliable car I every owned.
 
Ghery said:
Currently loaned to our son as his 1999 Ford Mustang is absolutely useless when it snows.
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Heh. And he lives here?

Will you be my dad? I wanna buy a car that won't work half the year here and you'll loan me a useful one for the winter, right? ;)

LOL... He probably needs to sell the toy car, until he can afford both. :) :) :)

But you're a nice guy for doing it. Heh heh.

Maybe he'd sell you the Mustang??? Hahaha.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
denverpilot said:
Heh. And he lives here?

Will you be my dad? I wanna buy a car that won't work half the year here and you'll loan me a useful one for the winter, right? ;)

LOL... He probably needs to sell the toy car, until he can afford both. :) :) :)

But you're a nice guy for doing it. Heh heh.

Maybe he'd sell you the Mustang??? Hahaha.


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Or, just get a set of snow tires for the Mustang.
 
My business partner has had a similar issue with his 5 series in the past. Do you keep your key hung up near the car? His problem was that after a few dead batteries while being parked in the garage it turns out that if his car senses that the keys are proximate, it never powers itself down. He had to start hanging his keys up in the house vs in the garage. Problem solved.
 
I will get through this life having owned only three German cars.

1. My 1984 BMW 320i. Sold it to buy a Jeep Cherokee for the family and yes, I regret that decision.

2. My 2001 Passat. Best car I've ever owned until the turbo started to fail and it was all down hill from there.

3. The sweet 1999 BMW 735i E38 from the "Transporter" movie that I'll own and maintain myself some day.
 
Ken Ibold said:
I learned to drive in a 68 Camaro in Wisconsin. Snow driving in sports cars can be done.
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Oh he'll yes, you just learn how to drive sideways,the Mustang however was always the worst handling of all the pony cars.
 
Henning said:
Oh he'll yes, you just learn how to drive sideways,the Mustang however was always the worst handling of all the pony cars.
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yeah, I learned how to drive on a Mustang in Pennsylvania. It snows quite a bit in PA. I drove that Mustang 20+ miles to school every day, in all weather.
 
PilotSpike said:
My business partner has had a similar issue with his 5 series in the past. Do you keep your key hung up near the car? His problem was that after a few dead batteries while being parked in the garage it turns out that if his car senses that the keys are proximate, it never powers itself down. He had to start hanging his keys up in the house vs in the garage. Problem solved.
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I keep the keys in the bedroom, and the car in the garage. I would think it is far enough away???
 
BillTIZ said:
I would have them canceling the sale right now and restoring everything to the day before the sale. You should be out $0. Sales tax refund, registration fee/tax refund. Every penny.

They get a lemon car and you walk to another dealer.
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Contract law and state lemon laws prevent your statement from seeing the light of day. The dealership MAY, on their own accord, invalidate the contract but there is no legal obligation.
 
I get it back tomorrow, so hopefully it's fixed.

If it happens again, I am going to *nicely* talk to the dealer about getting a different vehicle. I like the car, but not if it has an intermittent starting problem. If they don't want to help, then I will contact BMW.
 
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Also, Lemon laws are very specific. You need to look at them closely if you want to file a return as a lemon. I looked at it once, and found that while there were a few hundred applications for a lemon return, the actual results were very low in getting the mfg to take the car back. Each state has a consumer affairs dept and the lemon laws can be found there.
 
I would look at the lemon law specifically. There are things you need to do in each state and you may need to put the dealer on notice specifically for every repair - READ THE RULES in your state.
 
I have about 125,000 on my 2006 Lexus IS350. I drive that thing like a mofo and it has been amazingly dependable. When it comes time to get a new ride (soon) I'll definitely be giving the IS-F a look. Used to own a 2003 Mustang... never buying an American car again.
 
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