Black exhaust soot??

Stewartb said:
Find peak and lean properly. You don't need the gauge for that. See if the soot issue resolves itself. If not, take it back to your mechanic.
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How do you lean properly without EGT??. I am truly curious. I have one of these gauges now and taught to find peak temp leaning then enrich to 100F Rich of peak.
In the past without this gauge I would
Lean to rough running and enrich a little. Was lean but probably running hotter cylinder temps as a result of being too lean- at least so I think.
 
no engine should produce that amount of carbon.
 
Just a question,, are we managing a misfuel issue, some one dealing with some JP?
 
Tom-D said:
Just a question,, are we managing a misfuel issue, some one dealing with some JP?
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If his EGT has increased like he says, it sure sounds like it...
 
benyflyguy said:
Lol. Like it but I find that puts be near 50F ROP and apparently a bad place.
this link from mike Busch helped me but makes me want to have more info then just EGT. But I’m a carbureted IO-470 in an ole 182.
https://www.avweb.com/ownership/the-savvy-aviator-59-egt-cht-and-leaning/
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Yeah they say that, but if you consider the fact that the majority of flight school aircraft operate within that parameter on a daily basis, yet still make it to TBO and beyond. The so called ‘red box’ isn’t as big of an issue as the internet junkies make it out to be.
 
benyflyguy said:
Lol. Like it but I find that puts be near 50F ROP and apparently a bad place.
this link from mike Busch helped me but makes me want to have more info then just EGT. But I’m a carbureted IO-470 in an ole 182.
https://www.avweb.com/ownership/the-savvy-aviator-59-egt-cht-and-leaning/
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carbureted IO-470?

Continental recommends full rich for full throttle ops, 50* rich of peak for 75% power ops, and peak EGT for 65% power and below. Lean to stumble and enrich to smooth it out works great. Always has.

http://www.tcmlink.com/pdf2/M89-18.pdf
 
Tom-D said:
If that proves correct, he his looking at an overhaul.
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An overhaul??? Compressions were mid to high 70’s last December. Approx 450 smoh completed in 2014. What makes you believe this engine needs to be overhauled??
 
Stewartb said:
carbureted IO-470?

Continental recommends full rich for full throttle ops, 50* rich of peak for 75% power ops, and peak EGT for 65% power and below. Lean to stumble and enrich to smooth it out works great. Always has.

http://www.tcmlink.com/pdf2/M89-18.pdf
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Sorry. O-470. Continental. I’ll take a look at this and try it. Might help me save a bit a fuel and be leaner. 100F ROP admittedly doesn’t let you lean that much even at 8k-10k feet.
 
jason gula said:
An overhaul??? Compressions were mid to high 70’s last December. Approx 450 smoh completed in 2014. What makes you believe this engine needs to be overhauled??
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That doesn't make a shi-, if the engine runs well or not. Once diesel is run the fuel is a detonation hazard.
years ago there has 150 engine ruined by a 5% diesel mix, the refinery picked up the rebuilds, all 150 were torn down, all were bad, Most had cylinder stud stretching and case cracks.

If the mis-fueling did occur, you engine is down hard.
you must find why / when it occurred and trace it to the source.
Mis-fueling is a really bad thing, It causes premature catastrophic failures caused by over stressing of the case, rods, pistons, and cylinders.
 
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jason gula said:
So I recently had a magneto overhauled and replaced along with the 4 plugs to this magneto. The aircraft is a Piper Cherokee. I’ve noticed since having this replaced some black exhaust can be seen on the nose wheel, especially if the plane is leaned out during flight. The EGT is running at 200 degrees or so while in cruise and not leaned out. It seems the more it’s leaned out the more black soot and higher egt now. Not sure of this new magneto is the cause or if it’s something else, again.
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Re-reading this, is typical of a mis-fueling.
Diesel will run cooler because the fuel runs faster and does not create the heat for the entire power stroke.
It will create a detonation event for each power stroke.
 
Tom-D said:
That doesn't make a shi-, if the engine runs well or not. Once diesel is run the fuel is a detonation hazard.
years ago there has 150 engine ruined by a 5% diesel mix, the refinery picked up the rebuilds, all 150 were torn down, all were bad, Most had cylinder stud stretching and case cracks.

If the mis-fueling did occur, you engine is down hard.
you must find why / when it occurred and trace it to the source.
Mis-fueling is a really bad thing, It causes premature catastrophic failures caused by over stressing of the case, rods, pistons, and cylinders.
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Lol. Man I’m new here but this has my mind blown now. You’re telling me my plane was misfueled?? So basically you’re saying, though I’ve personally watched each refueling for my aircraft, I have diesel fuel in my engine and it needs to be overhauled now? I’m pretty sure I’m not a f’n idiot. I know the difference between the fuels, colors, leaning, etc. I DONT know the reason for higher egt and black exhaust after a new mag. Don’t tell me there is some other kind of “misfuel” in the aircraft.
 
Tom-D said:
If that proves correct, he his looking at an overhaul.
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It probably depends. This happened to a club aircraft I was about to fly. The aircraft wreaked of Jet-A. FBO checked everything, no contamination. It turned out a student pilot on a solo x-country topped off with Jet-A on his last stop. Engine was bore scoped and no apparent damage was seen so the aircraft stayed on the schedule and continued flying...
 
jason gula said:
Lol. Man I’m new here but this has my mind blown now. You’re telling me my plane was misfueled?? So basically you’re saying, though I’ve personally watched each refueling for my aircraft, I have diesel fuel in my engine and it needs to be overhauled now? I’m pretty sure I’m not a f’n idiot. I know the difference between the fuels, colors, leaning, etc. I DONT know the reason for higher egt and black exhaust after a new mag. Don’t tell me there is some other kind of “misfuel” in the aircraft.
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He was alluding to the possibility that you unknowingly introduced it via a contaminated batch of fuel...not that you mistakenly put Diesel/Jet-A in yourself or watched someone do it.

idiot? No. But for someone who is “new here” and came to ask for advice, you seem to have your mind made up about what it is or is not...doesn’t make you an idiot, but certainly some other adjectives that I’d get clipped for.
 
jason gula said:
Lol. Man I’m new here but this has my mind blown now. You’re telling me my plane was misfueled?? So basically you’re saying, though I’ve personally watched each refueling for my aircraft, I have diesel fuel in my engine and it needs to be overhauled now? I’m pretty sure I’m not a f’n idiot. I know the difference between the fuels, colors, leaning, etc. I DONT know the reason for higher egt and black exhaust after a new mag. Don’t tell me there is some other kind of “misfuel” in the aircraft.
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One of these samples is contaminated with jet fuel. It came from the truck like that. Were I not religious about seeing, smelling, and feeling the fuel each time I sample it, I may have missed the contamination of this fuel. I made them drain all 52 gallons and replace it with new fuel from a different truck.

20403.jpeg
 
Omalley1537 said:
He was alluding to the possibility that you unknowingly introduced it via a contaminated batch of fuel...not that you mistakenly put Diesel/Jet-A in yourself or watched someone do it.

idiot? No. But for someone who is “new here” and came to ask for advice, you seem to have your mind made up about what it is or is not...doesn’t make you an idiot, but certainly some other adjectives that I’d get clipped for.
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Lol. Curious what you’re adjectives are. Send them to me via a private message. I’ll entertain it. I’m new, as an aircraft owner. I asked for any help In Regards to the higher egt and black soot after a mag replacement. It somehow delved Into I need an overhaul because it was fueled with the wrong fuel, which isnt even remotely possible here, but thanks for that opinion.
 
jason gula said:
It somehow delved Into I need an overhaul because it was fueled with the wrong fuel, which isnt even remotely possible here, but thanks for that opinion.
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Every now and then a real-life example of the FAA's Hazardous Attitudes happens along on full display.
 
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smv said:
Every now and then a real-life example of the FAA's Hazardous Attitudes happens along on full display.
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Here here! (Where did this phrase originate? Because it seems weird to write it out)
 
jason gula said:
Well this quote is incorrect. I understand leaning, how to lean, when to lean etc. I dont understand the sudden high temps on the gauge and the black exhaust which is all of a sudden after a magneto and plugs replacement.
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I know you said the mechanics said everything checks out, but is your mag drop check on run up completely normal for each mag?
If one mag is not working, or one plug is not firing on the cylinder connected to your single egt gauge, then you will have higher than normal egt temperatures from the delayed combustion still occurring in your exhaust stack. Incomplete combustion would make me think that an increased black color from the exhaust is from unburnt gas(too rich).
My non-mechanic thought is if the mag check is normal, then change the plug that was just replaced on the cylinder that is connected to your egt as I think it could be defective.
 
Matthew Rogers said:
Here here! (Where did this phrase originate? Because it seems weird to write it out)
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Well, it's even weirder written incorrectly. It should be Hear, Hear!

"Hear, hear is often confused with here, here. The obvious reason is that the verb “hear” and the adverb “here” are pronounced the same. That means they are homophones, and as we’ve mentioned once or twice, homophones are easy to confuse. They can be especially confusing in a phrase like hear, hear, which is spoken aloud but rarely written down. However, as confused phrases go, here, here has taken root and is very commonly seen."
 
Has the aircraft been refueled since the appearance of the black soot? If not, take a fuel sample and have it analyzed for Jet-A.
 
Ravioli said:
Well, it's even weirder written incorrectly. It should be Hear, Hear!

"Hear, hear is often confused with here, here. The obvious reason is that the verb “hear” and the adverb “here” are pronounced the same. That means they are homophones, and as we’ve mentioned once or twice, homophones are easy to confuse. They can be especially confusing in a phrase like hear, hear, which is spoken aloud but rarely written down. However, as confused phrases go, here, here has taken root and is very commonly seen."
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Palm slaps forehead ---- yep. That's why it looked so weird.
 
Going to bump this up along the same topic. It seems as though the black exhaust staining has stopped after running it for a few hours. Upon checking the engine this morning, it appears there is a brownish type stain on a cylinder exhaust pipe where it meets the cylinder. Almost looks like an oil stain on the cylinder but it’s dry to the touch. Any clue on this one?
 
Could be an exhaust leak. Photo would be helpful.
 
jason gula said:
Lol. Curious what you’re adjectives are. Send them to me via a private message. I’ll entertain it. I’m new, as an aircraft owner. I asked for any help In Regards to the higher egt and black soot after a mag replacement. It somehow delved Into I need an overhaul because it was fueled with the wrong fuel, which isnt even remotely possible here, but thanks for that opinion.
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You will quickly find out that this is the wrong board to come to for any kind of advice. It didn't use to be this way.

Now, no matter how benign your question, someone on here will end up trashing you for asking the question.
 
+1 on a photo!

Lndwarrior said:
You will quickly find out that this is the wrong board to come to for any kind of advice. It didn't use to be this way.
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Sorry you feel that way, but that’s simply not true. The whole purpose of a message board is for people to share experiences, opinions and offer advice, some may be less informative than others, but that’s just the way it goes. As a whole, this board is chocked full of knowledge.

Lndwarrior said:
Now, no matter how benign your question, someone on here will end up trashing you for asking the question.
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Welcome to the internet.
 
RyanB said:
The whole purpose of a message board is for people to share experiences, opinions and offer advice, some may be less informative than others, but that’s just the way it goes. As a whole, this board is chocked full of knowledge.
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I haven't been here very long but overall I find this site to be informative and helpful ... most times.

Still, there are a few snarky responses when us "smart like a rock & quick like a tree" pilots are asking stoopid questions. o_O
 
RyanB said:
Sorry you feel that way, but that’s simply not true. The whole purpose of a message board is for people to share experiences, opinions and offer advice, some may be less informative than others, but that’s just the way it goes. As a whole, this board is chocked full of knowledge.
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totally agree with this. Have only been an owner for six months, but have gotten great advice on a flat nosewheel, Aspen/Autopilot integration, IR checkride prep questions.... can’t remember all the other help, but there has been lots of times I have received good advice from people here. All in all, I have found if you are looking for advice, be prepared to get a variety of opinions, experiences and comments. Then, do with it what you will.

in addition this board helped me out on my first short trip after getting my Private. I met up with a couple of folks from this board in person who were great.... had a good breakfast and unfortunately haven’t been able to meet up again but I digress. Ended up almost buying a plane from someone on this forum... didn’t work out but it was a great almost-buy-experience. I love the humor of folks on this board. Love the personalities - even the more abrasive ones whose names shall not be mentioned lol :)

Above all, this site provides me a little scratch of the aviation itch when I can’t fly and don’t feel like studying IR stuff anymore. And it’s a nice escape from a lot of the other crappy stuff going on in the world. Ok, enough about all this.... just get the Bonanza. Wait... what was this topic about???
 
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