Better Make it Good. We're Judging You

OkieFlyer

OkieFlyer

En-Route
Joined
May 16, 2011
Messages
3,225
Location
Lindsay, OK
Display Name
Display name:
Andrew L.
So I bought this ol' 182 a month or two ago, and haven't had a whole lot of time to fly. I'm right at 100 total hours of flight time, most of which is in a 172, so the 10-12 hours of time in the 182 has mostly just been getting accustomed to the new plane, solo. Well, I had some family down to visit over the weekend, and my dad and bro-in-law wanted to take ride. I felt plenty comfortable to take some pax up for some sight seeing, so I agreed, and off we went to the airport. Upon arrival, I noticed the local group of RC flyers was using the strip, as they often do on nice Saturdays. This might seem odd to some, but we are a small rural community, and there is little traffic most of the time, so the RC guys are allowed to use the airport, provided that they yield to any real aircraft that are around. They are very cautious and courteous, and some are pilots themselves. So anyway, we go flying for an uneventful 45 min. or so and head back to the airport. I make a call that I'm 5 miles out, and the RC guys said they are getting out of the way, and to come on in. "Roger, and thank you," says me. I called my turn to final, and the RC boys called up and said "We are all clear of the runway, and the taxiway is clear. Wind sock looks straight down the runway at about 10." "Roger, much obliged," I reply. "Oh, by the way, We're all ready to judge. Better make it a good one," sayeth the RC guys. I implored them not to judge too harshly, because I've never landed with a load before. "I've got a 225 pounder up front, and a 275 pounder in the back, and a plane I've only flown a few times. Cut me some slack if I screw it up." "No excuses," exclaimed the RC guy. So I put my game face on and flew the best way I knew how. I flew the approach at about 90 mph, which is faster than I normally fly it. I wasn't sure how different the extra weight would feel. 80 over the fence, flaring over the grass for a touchdown just after the numbers. I was determined to get down and off at the first taxiway, which would surely impress the judges at least a little. It all felt beautiful as I flared and bled off some speed before it settled onto the asphalt. To my passengers, who have never ridden in a small plane before, I was muttering "hold it off, hold it off, hold it off, and"...............squeak.............squeak................squeak. Holy freaking crap! After a text book approach, I let the dang thing bounce, twice, in front of an audience of about 15 folks lined up along the runway, with a front row seat. I was so embarrassed and angry at myself. I begged the forgiveness of the judges and gave them excuses, but the feeling of utter failure could not be shaken. I suck!
 
Your worst landings will always be in front of a crowd. You have to learn to ignore the spectators and concentrate on sticking the landing. Good Luck.
 
That's when you're supposed to use the soft field landing technique... carry a little power into the landing, get stabilized with your aimpoint just a bit before the threshold, carry it to the landing point with a touch of power.
 
At least they were just little bounces. I've done worse in my time, but it was bad enough to injure my pride. I was looking for that silky smooth greaser, but alas, it eluded me on that day. I wish I could blame it on the weather, but it was perfect.

Oh well. Manure happens. :wink2:
 
Golly... I've NEVER heard of someone bouncing a landing.

Nope.

Never happened ... In the entire history of aviation, a little pressure NEVER resulted in a less than perfect
Among.

Yep...
Yep..

You're the first. :wink2:
 
I went up with my dad who's a pilot and former CFI when he flew with my CFI to get current again. After my dad finally got a few great landings in, the CFI said, "You've got it now. Watch this, Timmer, this next landing will be his best yet!" on a perfect-until-then short final... of course, it was his worst (with CFI laughing).

It's amazing how mental state will help or hinder you, and quite predictably so.
 
90 on final and 80 over the fence in a 182?...yeah...that ending wrote itself!

And on the opposite end of the spectrum, of course when you pull off a perfect greaser there is never anyone around to witness it!
 
Timmer said:
I went up with my dad who's a pilot and former CFI when he flew with my CFI to get current again. After my dad finally got a few great landings in, the CFI said, "You've got it now. Watch this, Timmer, this next landing will be his best yet!" on a perfect-until-then short final... of course, it was his worst (with CFI laughing).

It's amazing how mental state will help or hinder you, and quite predictably so.
Click to expand...
It's funny how on the calmest days I can butcher a landing but on gusty day I can kiss the ground.
 
Worst landing I ever had - by a long shot, was with my graduate advisor on board. Absolute freakin' brick arrival in a 172. I hit so hard it didn't bounce, it just stopped flying :eek:. Right about at 100 hours total time... just enough time to start thinking you might know what you're doing...

Fortunately, I seem to have survived the next 700 hours.
 
Checking out to solo in a new plane with a CFI and he said, take it up and give me 3 landings.

First landing, he gets on the radio "Ok, that was 3 you're good"
 
Andrew, I say do not worry about it too much. The problem we all face is ... wait for it ... statistical. :)
Yes, if you pull of a greaser, there is STATISTICALLY nobody around to witness it.
But when you slam it down or bounce it a few times, STATISTICALLY there must be at least a dozen witnesses.
So don't hate yourself or your landing, hate math.
I sure hope this makes you feel better. :D

Btw, my best greasers are usually witnessed by one friend and one friend only. Nobody else has seen me grease it on, not even the wife, lol.
 
Why carry extra speed on final? The approach speeds are based off of max weight anyway, right? So I would have had it at 1.3Vso or maybe a bit less depending on how much below max gross you were.
 
Shawn said:
90 on final and 80 over the fence in a 182?...yeah...that ending wrote itself!

And on the opposite end of the spectrum, of course when you pull off a perfect greaser there is never anyone around to witness it!
Click to expand...

SoonerAviator said:
Why carry extra speed on final? The approach speeds are based off of max weight anyway, right? So I would have had it at 1.3Vso or maybe a bit less depending on how much below max gross you were.
Click to expand...

I know, I know. I thought I made it clear that I'm an idiot :yes:

jordane93 said:
It's funny how on the calmest days I can butcher a landing but on gusty day I can kiss the ground.
Click to expand...

I hear that. In actuality, the wind was only about 5 knots straight down the runway. Living here in on the Oklahoma plains, anything less than 12-15 knots is a pretty rare thing. In hindsight, that should have been my excuse. Too calm! Don't know what to do if I'm not correcting for crosswind.

txflyer said:
Do it at OSH and see how you feel ...
Click to expand...

Geeze, and I was planning on flying to Oshkosh this year. Maybe I'll land at Fond Du Lac instead. :wink2:
 
You should have told them that you took off with the servo reverse in the wrong position :D

I bounced a little on my worst landing and settled back down sideways for some more bouncy-hoppy-screechy time. Just as I was congratulating myself on getting straightened-out again without breaking the airplane, I heard tower tell the guy behind me to go around. I wish I had a video so I could get a good laugh at myself :popcorn: Very glad I didn't wreck the plane :redface:
 
One of the things I truly like about the mighty Steingar is he doesn't give a crap what anyone thinks about his bikes, his landings, and a myriad other things. Let the guys flying the little toys judge all they want. Whatever.
 
OkieFlyer said:
. . . In actuality, the wind was only about 5 knots straight down the runway. Living here in on the Oklahoma plains, anything less than 12-15 knots is a pretty rare thing. In hindsight, that should have been my excuse. Too calm! Don't know what to do if I'm not correcting for crosswind.
Click to expand...

I agree about the low/no-wind in OK. It's reminds me of Talladega Nights when he is giving his first post-race interview and doesn't know what to do with his hands, lol. No moderate slip or crab?! How am I supposed to land this thing?! :lol:
 
225 and 275? Your relatives play football or something?
 
Don't worry about it. I save my worst landings for KPWT. Why? Because I know that the people eating at the cafe on the field (where I'm headed) are grading landings. It just goes with the territory. :D
 
Shawn said:
90 on final and 80 over the fence in a 182?...yeah...that ending wrote itself!...
Click to expand...

Yeah, as soon as I read 90 on final, I knew there was going to be trouble! They put those recommended landing speeds in the POH for a reason!
 
UngaWunga said:
225 and 275? Your relatives play football or something?
Click to expand...

My brother and I both played college football. I at Southeastern Oklahoma State University, a division II school. My brother at the University of Tulsa. We are a large family.
 
Yup. You were determined to plant it on the number but carrying too much speed. When you force it down, you bounce. When you really force it down, you really bounce, maybe bending the firewall, taking chips out of the runway with your prop and collapsing your nose gear.

Just as a learning opportunity - your thinking leads to a porpoise landing, very costly. If you're fast, float if you have the runway and go around if you don't. But don't try to force the airplane onto the runway at a particular point.
 
OkieFlyer said:
Ah c'mon, it's only 10 mph faster than the book. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Kinetic energy goes up as the square of the speed. Unless the extra energy is dissipated before touchdown, that makes the airplane more likely to bounce.
 
I thought what made the plane bounce was the required nose-down attitude to descend at the high speed, which makes the nose wheel touch first. This pivots the plane and the mains touch hard as the nose wheel rebounds upwards, and the plane, still at flying speed, rises back into the air.

If the pilot then noses down towards the runway, it gets ugly fast; if thepilot give up yoke, he's just out of sync as the plane will climb too steeply and the nose will drop to maintain speed, giving another bounce. Keep this up, and it is also ugly, often with a prop strike at the end of Bounce #3.

On the other hand, there are two choices for recovery: 1) after the first bounce, go around and try again, somewhat slower; 2) on the first bounce, give enough throttle to hold the extra altitude and make a normal landing from there, including enough runway to slow down. If there's not enough room left, go around.
 
Hank S said:
I thought what made the plane bounce was the required nose-down attitude to descend at the high speed, which makes the nose wheel touch first. This pivots the plane and the mains touch hard as the nose wheel rebounds upwards, and the plane, still at flying speed, rises back into the air.

If the pilot then noses down towards the runway, it gets ugly fast; if thepilot give up yoke, he's just out of sync as the plane will climb too steeply and the nose will drop to maintain speed, giving another bounce. Keep this up, and it is also ugly, often with a prop strike at the end of Bounce #3.

On the other hand, there are two choices for recovery: 1) after the first bounce, go around and try again, somewhat slower; 2) on the first bounce, give enough throttle to hold the extra altitude and make a normal landing from there, including enough runway to slow down. If there's not enough room left, go around.
Click to expand...

Youse can bounce off the nose wheel or youse can bounce off the mains...and a 172 can make a really neat "sproonngg" sound if'n ya bounce off the mains just right...
 
OkieFlyer said:
So I bought this ol' 182 a month or two ago, and haven't had a whole lot of time to fly. I'm right at 100 total hours of flight time, most of which is in a 172, so the 10-12 hours of time in the 182 has mostly just been getting accustomed to the new plane, solo. Well, I had some family down to visit over the weekend, and my dad and bro-in-law wanted to take ride. I felt plenty comfortable to take some pax up for some sight seeing, so I agreed, and off we went to the airport. Upon arrival, I noticed the local group of RC flyers was using the strip, as they often do on nice Saturdays. This might seem odd to some, but we are a small rural community, and there is little traffic most of the time, so the RC guys are allowed to use the airport, provided that they yield to any real aircraft that are around. They are very cautious and courteous, and some are pilots themselves. So anyway, we go flying for an uneventful 45 min. or so and head back to the airport. I make a call that I'm 5 miles out, and the RC guys said they are getting out of the way, and to come on in. "Roger, and thank you," says me. I called my turn to final, and the RC boys called up and said "We are all clear of the runway, and the taxiway is clear. Wind sock looks straight down the runway at about 10." "Roger, much obliged," I reply. "Oh, by the way, We're all ready to judge. Better make it a good one," sayeth the RC guys. I implored them not to judge too harshly, because I've never landed with a load before. "I've got a 225 pounder up front, and a 275 pounder in the back, and a plane I've only flown a few times. Cut me some slack if I screw it up." "No excuses," exclaimed the RC guy. So I put my game face on and flew the best way I knew how. I flew the approach at about 90 mph, which is faster than I normally fly it. I wasn't sure how different the extra weight would feel. 80 over the fence, flaring over the grass for a touchdown just after the numbers. I was determined to get down and off at the first taxiway, which would surely impress the judges at least a little. It all felt beautiful as I flared and bled off some speed before it settled onto the asphalt. To my passengers, who have never ridden in a small plane before, I was muttering "hold it off, hold it off, hold it off, and"...............squeak.............squeak................squeak. Holy freaking crap! After a text book approach, I let the dang thing bounce, twice, in front of an audience of about 15 folks lined up along the runway, with a front row seat. I was so embarrassed and angry at myself. I begged the forgiveness of the judges and gave them excuses, but the feeling of utter failure could not be shaken. I suck!
Click to expand...
RC guys are nothing. The harshest judges are the coyotes.

A pilot back home tells the story of landing at a podunk grass field once where the coyotes were wandering on and off the runway. She buzzed the runway to spook them off, but there was one stubborn guy at the approach end who had been calmly watching her pass overhead and just wouldn't budge. So she came around and landed anyway, keeping one eye on the critter. Distracted, she bounced the landing. When she finally got the plane turned around to taxi back, the coyote was still standing there, watching her taxi toward him. As she came up to the turnoff, he calmly laid a turd on the runway and scampered off.
 
bflynn said:
Yup. You were determined to plant it on the number but carrying too much speed. When you force it down, you bounce. When you really force it down, you really bounce, maybe bending the firewall, taking chips out of the runway with your prop and collapsing your nose gear.

Just as a learning opportunity - your thinking leads to a porpoise landing, very costly. If you're fast, float if you have the runway and go around if you don't. But don't try to force the airplane onto the runway at a particular point.
Click to expand...

Easy now. Nobody said anything about wheelbarrowing. I didn't force anything, nor would I try. I just didn't hold it off quite long enough to bleed off all the speed. I still let it settle on the mains with a nose high attitude, and bounced on the mains a little. Yes I wanted to touch just after the numbers, but I would never just drive it to the ground. Thanks for the input.

Anywho, the story is meant to be humorous. It was a less than perfect landing in front of a line of people. Nothing unsafe was done.
 
Complete fail.
Surrender your ticket, I’ll take care of your plane. :D

Seriously – pressure and the desire to do something extraordinarily well leads usually (at least for me) to the exact opposite result. I am afraid you are not alone… ;) :yes:



Palmpilot said:
Yeah, as soon as I read 90 on final, I knew there was going to be trouble! They put those recommended landing speeds in the POH for a reason!
Click to expand...

I heard this many time before, but disagree with it. Indeed, a too high approach speed often leads to not so good landing. The reason is IMHO however not the airspeed itself (assuming the runway is long enough), but that pilots are not patient enough in the flare to wait until the plane has slowed down. Instead, they set it down at a speed at which it still wants to fly, possibly even nosewheel first. Another issue seems to be that quite a few pilots seem to have difficulties to keep the plane aligned and on the centerline during a longer flare and therefore want to set it down as soon as possible, before it drifts off the runway.
 
My best three pointers never happen when there is any one to watch.
 
I would of told them, I was taught that your suppose to bounce on landing because it would count as 2 landings. LOL LOL
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top