Best way to get to atp (or at least cfi) as cheap as possible?

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Brendon

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brendon7358
Options I am considering

I already have my ppl and about 50 hours.
After getting CFI, and CFII I will work as a flight instructor and whatever jobs I can get to build up to 1500 hours.

Get my own airplane:
See my other post here
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/com...perating-training-costs-for-pa-28-180.129175/

Partner with someone for an airplane they already have, or buy one together:
This is fantastic, but I can't depend on this as I don't know anyone that would be willing to do this and in these uncertain times of covid it might be hard to find someone. But if I could, this is a great option.

Join a flying club:
This would be a good option if it was available, but only one is available and it is over an hour away. They also have only one airplane and fairly high fees.
There are other flying clubs but they are 1.5-2hrs away +. This is problematic when I plan on flying 5-6 days a week. And gas costs would be a legitimate cost I would need to account for.

Find a part 61 school with competitive rates and rent their aircraft :
This is a good option. I could probably get it done for $50k but might cost as much as $55k.

My main problem with this is if I went with my plan of getting my own plane rebuilt and sold it at the end of my training my costs would be $40k-$45k depending on the value of the plane. If I could sell it for closer to $50k that would go down to $25k. And this isn't even considering the fact that when working as a cfi I could charge more to train people in my own aircraft than I would working for someone else in their plane. Potentially making back the cost of the aircraft several times over by the time I get to 1500 hours. But it's a risk. I just need to make it a calculated risk which is why I am here.

Part 141 School: This is the most safe option, but also the most expensive. Would cost $55-$65k. Significantly more than other options, especially my own airplane assuming everything goes to plan.

Join civil air patrol:
I don't know much about this, but I suspect it would take a lot of time, and a lot of effort beyond my training to benefit the organization.

Military:
It's a whole thing, don't really feel like getting into it right now. But no. Not happening. (not that I don't want to serve my country, in fact I am currently in the Air Force and getting out next year, at which point I will get a civilian job in my career field to save more money). Don't get me started on the gi bill. It's a whole thing.

Anything else I haven't thought of?
 
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Go to foreign country, pay off local official to say you are an ATP. Of course it may not be recognized outside that country...
 
Edited.

There’s about a year’s worth of full-time flying on top of CFI to have the experience to qualify for the ATP. Even going to a pilot mill, you will, at best, complete there program with a commercial CFI, CFI-I in SE and ME aircraft.

What do you want to do in aviation? That should inform the route you take.
 
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TCABM said:
Edited.

There’s about a year’s worth of full-time flying on top of CFI to have the experience to qualify for the ATP. Even going to a pilot mill, you will, at best, complete there program with a commercial CFI, CFI-I in SE and ME aircraft.

What do you want to do in aviation? That should inform the route you take.
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I am aware, that is my plan to be a cfi, I edited my original post to reflect that.

My ultimate goal is to be an airline pilot. But I will see where the career field takes me. Maybe I will go the private, or cargo plane route.
 
Brendon said:
I am aware, that is my plan to be a cfi, I edited my original post to reflect that.

My ultimate goal is to be an airline pilot. But I will see where the career field takes me. Maybe I will go the private, or cargo plane route.
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If the goal is airlines, I’d think mutli-engine cross-country in IFR would best set you apart from peers. I’d find ways to make that happen.
 
TCABM said:
If the goal is airlines, I’d think mutli-engine cross-country in IFR would best set you apart from peers. I’d find ways to make that happen.
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I mean anything is possible with enough money right?

Maybe I could look into some cargo operations in the carribean. As I don't think I would be allowed to carry passengers for hire with just a commercial, or would I?
 
Brendon said:
I mean anything is possible with enough money right?

Maybe I could look into some cargo operations in the carribean. As I don't think I would be allowed to carry passengers for hire with just a commercial, or would I?
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Yes. Skydive operations, local sightseeing...
 
EdFred said:
Yes. Skydive operations, local sightseeing...
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Well yeah, but like flights from Miami to the carribean for instance wouldn't be allowed or flights around the islands
 
Brendon said:
I mean anything is possible with enough money right?

Maybe I could look into some cargo operations in the carribean. As I don't think I would be allowed to carry passengers for hire with just a commercial, or would I?
Click to expand...

You really need to understand the privileges of a commercial ticket.
 
Brendon said:
Well yeah, but like flights from Miami to the carribean for instance wouldn't be allowed or flights around the islands
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Only if someone hires you as a personal pilot and provides the airplane. And flights to other countries are going to need to meet the requirements of those countries.
 
I’ve never met anyone who regretted using the GI Bill, which by all means can help facilitate your ATP. I’ve leveraged almost every educational program the military offers. PM me if you’d like some input or specific guidance.
 
TCABM said:
You really need to understand the privileges of a commercial ticket.
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Back in the olden days, when I was a DPE for commercial pilot applicants, the first question I asked was “With this certificate in your pocket, what kinds of operation will you be able to get paid for?” Many had never heard of Part119. and were confused about Part135.
 
bobmrg said:
Back in the olden days, when I was a DPE for commercial pilot applicants, the first question I asked was “With this certificate in your pocket, what kinds of operation will you be able to get paid for?” Many had never heard of Part119. and were confused about Part135.
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Back when I got my commercial, Part 119 didn’t exist, and I was specifically told that I didn’t need to know anything about Part 135.
 
The only reliably "go-fast" training method I've seen, and I've seen a lot of them in the last twenty years, is a larger 141 accelerated training school/pilot academy. By "go fast" I mean a year from zero to CFI-ASE-AME-IA.

Is it possible to "go fast" at less expense? Yes, but not reliably. Here's why the larger schools charge so much to keep you progressing forward constantly.

  • All of the aircraft are identical right down to the panel, so that moving from one to another isn't an issue.
  • As soon as a plane goes down for mx, it is either repaired on the spot, or a new one is brought in, usually within a day, sometimes hours.
  • As soon as an instructor leaves or is off the schedule for personal reasons, he or she is replaced by another.
  • As soon as a learning plateau presents itself to the client, there are 'interventions' in the form of supervisory attention and other methodologies applied to defeat the 'hurdle.'
  • The entire operation, the entire training environment, the entire training methodology is standardized across the board.
  • The client is expected to be available every day of the week for training, and the client will receive training on those days.
  • Supplemental, and usually proprietary training materials are supplied to the client to streamline and standardize the learning process. The instructors learned with the exact same materials so the transfer is immediate.
  • The school often features an AATD or FTD which allows for training to continue in the event the weather is no-go.
Anything less than this level of support and commitment is going to make it very challenging, borderline impossible, to stick to a twelve month timeline. You'll note that the client lives, breathes, and sleeps aviation. Forget a social life. Forget keeping a job while doing this. It's not possible. Two days off for Thanksgiving. Two days off for Christmas. That's about it.

I'm not going to comment on the quality of this route other than to say it is possible to adhere to a high level of demonstrated ability throughout all of the required practical tests. Whether that happens or not is largely up to the aptitude and commitment level of the client.

In an ideal world, we probably all know the best way to do this, but it would take years; a year or so for private pilot, not just for the training, but to absorb the lessons learned and develop the fundamental skills a VFR pilot needs; a year for instrument, for the training and then post-rating excursions with an instructor to slowly push the minimums down; six months for commercial; a solid year for the initial CFI; another six months for the add-on ratings. At that pace, you'd have an outstanding, well-rounded pilot ready to go for the next stage of his or her career.

But that almost never happens, unless it's a part-time learner who can slowly absorb the training. It's just too expensive and time-consuming for the average young (or early middle-age) person looking to begin a professional career on a reasonable timeline.

There are many pieces to this puzzle but one constant here from my perspective is, the faster you want to go, the less distractions you can afford. Airplane ownership is completely out the window for a 12 month timeline, but maybe not a 24-36 month timeline. A single-airplane part 61 school is out of the question also. Again, I'm talking speed here, ignoring all other elements such as quality and training environment, which of course are hugely important.

If you want to go fast you'll need to put this process in a training provider's hands. If you can slow down, at the expense of total time of the pilot certification arc, you might be able to control costs, training quality, etc. to higher level of fidelity. You'd just have to accept a longer path to your goal.
 
The above was very well said.

Consider this: don’t assume that you’ll have your instructor available to you personally every single time you want to fly, unless you’re paying their entire salary and benefits. They have a life and possibly other students too that will probably interfere with your 1 year plans. That doesn’t mean don’t try it, it just means that other humans are a variable that can impact your calendar. That goes for DPEs too.
 
I agree with Ryan F. You can start with the Instrument and commercial ratings. That will give you more experience to decide whether other options can serve you better.
 
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