Best techniques for spot landings?

Hocky

Hocky

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Hocky
I'm toying with the idea of going to Oshkosh this year. Either as a PPL or if i'm still a student then with a CFI. What is the best technique for a spot landing? Should I treat it like a short field?
 
Hocky said:
I'm toying with the idea of going to Oshkosh this year. Either as a PPL or if i'm still a student then with a CFI. What is the best technique for a spot landing? Should I treat it like a short field?
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Nope not like a short field.

Energy management, also you got manual flaps? ;)
 
If you can hit the numbers you will do just fine. It really is not about "landing on there dot" rather landing in the beginning, middle, or end of the runway. You will be able to see the dots from a long way away and set up your landing for the spot they call out. You may be asked to land at the beginning of the runway at first then switched to the end dot. Just power up a little and float the length of the runway and touch down. You can practice this at home.

Practice slow flight, and slow turns. Know your airplane, and don't do anything you haven't practiced in the last 30 days. Read the NOTAM, watch the videos, you will do fine.
 
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This might be a helpful, if self-promoting, video. http://youtu.be/LFsCuBPnWTs

The video is me flying into Oshkosh in 2013 as a new PPL. That's my CFI with me, a very experienced pilot and owner of the plane. (It was totaled by a renter, with no injuries, several months later.) First time flying into Oshkosh for either of us, though I attended in 2012.

This video shows the last bit of our flight in (and more on the ground). At the last minute, they moved our landing point to the next one closer, maybe 400 yards sooner.

This was Saturday about Noon, about an hour before the mass flights started arriving.

Consider arriving early morning or early in the show week, and definitely not Sunday, to make things less demanding and less stressful.

I flew home solo the following Saturday morning amidst more traffic than when we arrived. It was stressful getting to the runway and in line, but no big deal once I got cleared for takeoff: Just took off and headed West... haven't done the video for the flight home.

It was helpful to read the NOTAM a zillion times and know it well. And, yes, Oshkosh is as intense and fun as you expect!
 
Everyone says arrive early, and that's what - everyone does. So, I time it so I get there about 7:30-7:45 in the evening and I'm usually the only one in the pattern.
 
Spot landings? Use all your flaps, nail your speed, trim so speed stays nailed, and manage glide path with power.
 
Maybe see if your airport or a local one would let you use a bag of flour to mark a "spot", maybe 1/3 of the way down the runway if that would be sufficient.

Then begin your flare at various runway stripes before the flour spot to get a handle on how far your flare takes you with full flaps and the speed pretty close.

In my light sport on a typical runway, I think maybe two stripes works pretty well.

As an example, aiming for the closest displaced threshold arrow puts my wheels down in a full stall pretty much on the numbers:

http://youtu.be/dhauE4oUeE0?t=3m44s
 
If I might have my ppl but might still have my student ticket, regardless, I'd have my CFI with me. It's a busy place! Slow flying a few feet off the runway is easy after some practice. Just set up for a three point near the numbers, and when the stick is way back , just add a little power and slow fly it down the runway dropping it wherever you want it. Stearman was perfect for this, no flaps but dropped like a stone.
 
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Hocky said:
I'm toying with the idea of going to Oshkosh this year. Either as a PPL or if i'm still a student then with a CFI. What is the best technique for a spot landing? Should I treat it like a short field?
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You just soloed. I think you're getting ahead of yourself.
 
1000 foot markers work great for spot landing practice.

FastEddieB said:
Maybe see if your airport or a local one would let you use a bag of flour to mark a "spot", maybe 1/3 of the way down the runway if that would be sufficient.

Then begin your flare at various runway stripes before the flour spot to get a handle on how far your flare takes you with full flaps and the speed pretty close.

In my light sport on a typical runway, I think maybe two stripes works pretty well.

As an example, aiming for the closest displaced threshold arrow puts my wheels down in a full stall pretty much on the numbers:

http://youtu.be/dhauE4oUeE0?t=3m44s
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MAKG1 said:
You just soloed. I think you're getting ahead of yourself.
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Why? Either he has PPL or he goes with CFI. With CFI would be a great way to build time. And to practice what it takes as a PPL before he goes is a good plan too.
 
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Hocky said:
I'm toying with the idea of going to Oshkosh this year. Either as a PPL or if i'm still a student then with a CFI. What is the best technique for a spot landing? Should I treat it like a short field?
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practice, practice practice.

practice landing on any point on the runway at home.
 
Geremy - gonna go again this year? And what were you flying last year in the video, a 182?
 
Ron Levy said:
Spot landings? Use all your flaps, nail your speed, trim so speed stays nailed, and manage glide path with power.
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Thanks Ron. So should I treat it like a short field?
 
tinerj said:
Why? Either he has PPL or he goes with CFI. With CFI would be a great way to build time. And to practice what it takes as a PPL before he goes is a good plan too.
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Thank you. MAKG1 is just being a dick like he was on my other thread.

If I have my PPL by then I will most likely find a flying buddy to go with me.
 
murphey said:
practice, practice practice.

practice landing on any point on the runway at home.
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Specifics please. I need some details. How do you do it? Compare it to a normal landing or a short field please.
 
Hocky said:
Thank you. MAKG1 is just being a dick like he was on my other thread.

If I have my PPL by then I will most likely find a flying buddy to go with me.
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I don't think he's being a dick, rather just concerned for your safety.

I've been to Airventure and the traffic is ridiculous. There's no radar service, it's see and avoid. You MUST be on your game, IMO it's not a place for a brand new private pilot to be flying into during the busiest times. I think a new pilot could do it, but you're raising the risk of something happening.

I considered doing it this year and I'll be well over 100 hours by then and I've flown into OSH several times(it's a ghost town normally), and I'd still take an experienced pilot along with me.
 
Hocky said:
Specifics please. I need some details. How do you do it? Compare it to a normal landing or a short field please.
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How far along in your primary training are you? These things will be covered during your training.

Basically, full flaps, slightly slower approach speed, different aim point, short fields are usually a firmer touchdown(for me anyways). Of course a headwind helps:)
 
Hocky said:
Thanks Ron. So should I treat it like a short field?
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Except, perhaps, for approach speed, which might be a touch higher than when trying for minimum landing roll -- say, 1.25-1.3 Vs0 rather than 1.15-1.2 Vs0. However, when you're trying to make one of the colored dots at Oshkosh, you might want to make it at short-field approach speed since they want minimum roll and clear of the runway as soon as you can do so safely.
 
Hocky said:
Specifics please. I need some details. How do you do it? Compare it to a normal landing or a short field please.
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My normal landing is always a spot landing so even after 3000hrs I practice it every time. Starting with my primary instructor a normal landing was power off full flaps. The last landing of every lesson had a Coke riding on it. For the first half of my training I bought but by the second half he was buying most of the time. The biggest thing is speed control. Most pilots are 10-20kts too fast on final for "safety" and float halfway down the field or force it on damaging the nosewheel. So tell your instructor you want to start practicing this on every landing from now on. Don
 
You're all missing the easiest solution to hitting your landing spot every time. Not within 50' or 20' or 10'. Hitting it right on the spot - every time.
 
EdFred said:
You're all missing the easiest solution to hitting your landing spot every time. Not within 50' or 20' or 10'. Hitting it right on the spot - every time.
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ninja-grappling-hook.jpg
 
...where does he get those wonderful toys...
 
Go get rated in rotor craft.

I didn't say cheapest.
 
I concur with the people saying that you'll be low time and higher risk if you go alone this summer. Bring a CFI.

Also, this video has some great tips for STOL flying. It's designed for back country flyers, but if you practice them with your CFI during training you will be a better pilot anywhere.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrPJac80W9Y
 
There's no difference between a spot landing and a normal landing, a spot landing is just trying to do a normal landing on a particular spot. As others stated above, I think all your landings should be attempted spot landings, it's about precise control of the aircraft.

Don't aim for where you intend to land, aim for a few hundred feet before that, then your flare will take care of the rest. By "aim" I mean the spot you're looking at to see if it moves in the windshield. If you have a headwind, aim closer to where you want to land. If it's calm, aim further from it (earlier).

Know your plane. Practice. Figure out a couple of conditions, like "zero wind" and "10 knots of headwind" and learn what aimpoint works for each of them. Then adjust your aimpoint as necessary for other amounts of wind.

Oh, and airspeed control is critical. Can't make a precision landing if your airspeed is varying by +/-10 knots each time down final.
 
EdFred said:
You're all missing the easiest solution to hitting your landing spot every time. Not within 50' or 20' or 10'. Hitting it right on the spot - every time.
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That's too simple--land first, then tell your buddies where you were trying to land. You'll be closest every time! :yes:

P.S.--this works with shooting, too. Shoot first, then call the target as whatever you hit. Or not, as the case may be.
 
Be stable. Learn to judge glide on a calm day first. Don't look all over the place, just sit back, relax, and try to let yourself zone out while you hold a stable condition. Then see if you can pick the point of impact. Finally, practice this with the intent to go around, not to hit a point, but to see where the point you would hit is. Once you see what you're looking for then you can learn to hit points.

Edit: While Makg sounded mean his concern is well deserved. Even if you are successful in becoming a licensed pilot before the event take an instructor. Preferably one who has gone there before. Too many accidents occur there each year because pilots bite off more than they can chew and wind up balling it up. It's not just you that people are concerned for, it's all the others that are effected by silly mishaps that should and could be avoided if able bodied personnel had been invited on board.
 
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Hank S said:
That's too simple--land first, then tell your buddies where you were trying to land. You'll be closest every time! :yes:

P.S.--this works with shooting, too. Shoot first, then call the target as whatever you hit. Or not, as the case may be.
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Shhhh. You're giving away my secrets! ;-)
 
I've been trying to land where I'm aiming but it is tough. Sometimes I land in front of and sometimes beyond. It's all over the place! So how close do you need to be to the dot at oshkosh they tell you to land on? Is it okay to land 200-300 feet in front of or beyond it?
 
Hocky said:
I've been trying to land where I'm aiming but it is tough. Sometimes I land in front of and sometimes beyond. It's all over the place! So how close do you need to be to the dot at oshkosh they tell you to land on? Is it okay to land 200-300 feet in front of or beyond it?
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PTS for a spot landing is 200 feet for private pilot and 100 feet for a commercial pilot.

You may think I'm a "dick," but it is every pilot's responsibility to call unsafe behavior. Knock it off. You have no business yet operating in such high traffic environments. There is nothing at all wrong with practicing precision -- quite the contrary; it's a very good thing -- but you're trying to run a marathon when you're having difficulty finding the front door.

Learn to operate at moderate traffic airports before you go after the huge cluster****s. Oshkosh is the busiest airport in the world for that weekend, and air shows and other events are not good training grounds for new pilots. Go NEXT year and you'll be much more prepared, assuming you have polished up your landings.

I hope you don't think the certificate means you're good. It means the examiner thinks you're safe, a relatively low bar. You will still need training and/or practice after the certificate. Everyone does.

And keep in mind that there are a lot of landing critiques on YouTube and even AOPA for Oshkosh. You'll make your WORST landings when you know other pilots are watching, especially early on.
 
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MAKG1 said:
PTS for a spot landing is 200 feet for private pilot and 100 feet for a commercial pilot.

You may think I'm a "dick," but it is every pilot's responsibility to call unsafe behavior. Knock it off. You have no business yet operating in such high traffic environments. There is nothing at all wrong with practicing precision -- quite the contrary; it's a very good thing -- but you're trying to run a marathon when you're having difficulty finding the front door.

Learn to operate at moderate traffic airports before you go after the huge cluster****s. Oshkosh is the busiest airport in the world for that weekend, and air shows and other events are not good training grounds for new pilots. Go NEXT year and you'll be much more prepared, assuming you have polished up your landings.

I hope you don't think the certificate means you're good. It means the examiner thinks you're safe, a relatively low bar. You will still need training and/or practice after the certificate. Everyone does.

And keep in mind that there are a lot of landing critiques on YouTube and even AOPA for Oshkosh. You'll make your WORST landings when you know other pilots are watching, especially early on.
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Excellent advise! hope he listens to it. Oshkosh is no place for a beginner solo.
 
I started going to the EAA fly-in's the first year at Rockford, so I have some opinions.
It's the hyper enthusiastic, so excited they couldn't sleep pilots going to OSH that keep me away anymore.
Same thing with dawn patrols.
If they don't manage to kill themselves and their passenger on the way there they always have the option of ramming you to finish the job.

Am I cynical?
You betcha.
Am I angry over the unnecessary deaths and bad publicity for GA?
You double betcha.
Too many close encounters of the 3rd kind with those unguided missiles have made me that way.

To the OP: If your CFI has never been there (flying) on his own at least once, either go with someone who has or drive (my recommendation).
As far as you making the spot landing with multiple planes hitting the concrete in a conga line at a time, if you feel unsure THEN is not the time to be trying it out :yikes: for the first time.

Welcome to the wonderful world of being a pilot. I hope you manage to stick around for a long time.
 
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