Best degree to get

Aviation Management holds no value outside of Aviation. Any applicant that had it and was applying for a non-aviation job would likely be viewed as someone who could not get into the Business School for a "real" management degree.

Schools that give credit for stuff you did in the past (ratings, "life experiences", etc..) are viewed by many as diploma mills and not real schools. If you leave aviation, you will be suspect as someone who takes the easy way out.

Alright. Even without that I'm still graduating faster and spending less money in school and more time flying

What is your hurry to get thru school? Here is a little secret, life in College is MUCH better than life after college. While in college, you get to be around a bunch of similar aged kids, more than 1/2 of them are female, lots of booze, chances to go to some great Spring Break trips, and, if you are lucky, you combine them all and go on drunken Spring Break trips with females. That is the good life.

Once you get done with college, you then have issues like going to work, car payments, rent/mortgage, spouses, kids, taxes, death, and all the other crap that we deal with as adults.

College is the best time of life, don't hurry it.
 
Aviation Management holds no value outside of Aviation. Any applicant that had it and was applying for a non-aviation job would likely be viewed as someone who could not get into the Business School for a "real" management degree.

Schools that give credit for stuff you did in the past (ratings, "life experiences", etc..) are viewed by many as diploma mills and not real schools. If you leave aviation, you will be suspect as someone who takes the easy way out.



What is your hurry to get thru school? Here is a little secret, life in College is MUCH better than life after college. While in college, you get to be around a bunch of similar aged kids, more than 1/2 of them are female, lots of booze, chances to go to some great Spring Break trips, and, if you are lucky, you combine them all and go on drunken Spring Break trips with females. That is the good life.

Once you get done with college, you then have issues like going to work, car payments, rent/mortgage, spouses, kids, taxes, death, and all the other crap that we deal with as adults.

College is the best time of life, don't hurry it.
I'm more so trying to minimize debt not avoid college

Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk
 
Graduating one year earlier is likely not going to matter down the road. Do you ever sit and think about how much greater your life would be if you had graduated high school a year earlier? Didn't think so.

But if you get a cheap and easy degree now, it very well might come back to haunt you later. Spend the time now to get a real education, a real degree, and a real college experience.
 
I'm more so trying to minimize debt not avoid college

Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk


Go to the cheapest in-state college you can.

Apply for all the financial aid you can.

Use your ratings and CFI as many hours as you can.
Find a drop zone and fly jumpers.

Live in a house with a half dozen roommates.

Ride your bike everywhere you can.

Drink PBR.

Eat Top Ramen noodles.

That is how you avoid debt.
 
Only 19 so still time to figure it out. I took a year off to get my certs so that I can instruct while In school so I can be closer to my 1500 hours.

As for what I can survive doing if flying didn't work out, im trying to figure that out. Maybe I'll marry a rich women and have her support my habits. One can hope at least

Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk

Computer Science. Learn a programming language. It's a great fallback.
 
I'm more so trying to minimize debt not avoid college

Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk

Live at home and attend a community college near you. Cheapest way to move you toward your goal.
 
This could be the only time Nate and I have ever agreed on something.

And I think I like his dad better than him. :D


He's dead, so you'd have liked him in past tense. Heh. I don't know what you typically disagree with me on, but if it's politics, he was further right than I am by about a country mile. ;)

And of course, stuff posted here isn't always "the whole story". Might get along fine in person.

I even agree with Steingar in person, but usually we're both enjoying airplane watching and adult beverages and the amazing cooking of Grant and Leslie (well, really Leslie but I have to be polite since Grant makes sure logistics are in place to do it!).

Message boards make simple disagreements seem like they're more than they are, because there's no context to frame them and not nearly enough time to communicate niceties inherently involved in non-verbals in person, like listening intently to the point being made even if one thinks it's poppycock.

I'll always listen in person but it's hard to get that feel of "I heard you, I just don't agree with you", across in text.
 
Something like only 27% of people are working today are working direct in the field that they have their degree in...so unless you want to go into something very specialized get you degree in some thing that you will enjoy and is not going to put you in a pile of debt.

And my theory on higher education:

"A" Students teach and "B" students end up working for "C" Students.

An example: You'd better interview Bloomberg , for instance and ask what marks he got at johns Hopkins having waited on tables, etc. To put himself thru, then going on to being a billionaire and mayor of NYC. Your "theory" is b.s.( Un less your lead dog, the scenery is always the same) . A serious degree in math, science or computers is a big advantage.
 
Live at home and attend a community college near you. Cheapest way to move you toward your goal.

Or he could move to Arizona, find a place to instruct year-around and attend classes at Arizona state. They offer lots of options to take online classes which is what he needs if he also wants to do things like contract piloting gigs or right-seat time in some corporate turboprop.


I live in a college town. The residential college experience is over-rated. If the goal is to become a professional pilot, staying away from the drinking and party culture that comes with traditional college is in his best interest. Nobody is going to hire him for his aptitude at beer-pong, otoh if in 3 years he is 22 has 2000hrs and a fianance degree, he is in good shape to take advantage of the ongoing retirement wave.
 
Get a fire science degree and become a firefighter. That way you can have your part time job take care of your bills and healthcare while you pursue aviation on your days off.
 
Get a fire science degree and become a firefighter. That way you can have your part time job take care of your bills and healthcare while you pursue aviation on your days off.

Now there is a good idea.
 
I'm currently a freshman in college. I went through atps pilot mill. Big mistake a know but I finished up through my mei and got screwed. Anyways currently wondering what the best choice for a degree would be. I know a lot of people say stay away from aviation related. As of now I'm looking at getting my a&p. I just need a backup in case something happened where I could no longer fly.

Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk

Nursing. Dont laugh....

Pays pretty good. With a BSN can work ANYWHERE in the country, including part time/casual/supplemental. Its one of the few jobs that pays you MORE an hour to be less than full time...

Nursing was never plan A for me, but 16-17 years later, its been VERY good to me.

I flew 200 hrs the first year after I became an RN. 150 the year after that... and 100 the year after that./. Nursing paid for much of that..... Of course I was living cheap in a house I bought cheap when I was making $25k/year as a paramedic in the late 90's...
 
Last edited:
I read that actuaries have a golden ticket.

I have also heard from people that tried that degree that is is no cake walk.

Aviation Management holds no value outside of Aviation. Any applicant that had it and was applying for a non-aviation job would likely be viewed as someone who could not get into the Business School for a "real" management degree.

Schools that give credit for stuff you did in the past (ratings, "life experiences", etc..) are viewed by many as diploma mills and not real schools. If you leave aviation, you will be suspect as someone who takes the easy way out.



What is your hurry to get thru school? Here is a little secret, life in College is MUCH better than life after college. While in college, you get to be around a bunch of similar aged kids, more than 1/2 of them are female, lots of booze, chances to go to some great Spring Break trips, and, if you are lucky, you combine them all and go on drunken Spring Break trips with females. That is the good life.

Once you get done with college, you then have issues like going to work, car payments, rent/mortgage, spouses, kids, taxes, death, and all the other crap that we deal with as adults.

College is the best time of life, don't hurry it.

Graduating one year earlier is likely not going to matter down the road. Do you ever sit and think about how much greater your life would be if you had graduated high school a year earlier? Didn't think so.

But if you get a cheap and easy degree now, it very well might come back to haunt you later. Spend the time now to get a real education, a real degree, and a real college experience.

Best advise I have heard yet.
 
Aviation Management holds no value outside of Aviation. Any applicant that had it and was applying for a non-aviation job would likely be viewed as someone who could not get into the Business School for a "real" management degree.

Schools that give credit for stuff you did in the past (ratings, "life experiences", etc..) are viewed by many as diploma mills and not real schools. If you leave aviation, you will be suspect as someone who takes the easy way out.

Some may believe that. The six nationally-recognized accrediting agencies that have accredited TESC (including Middle States and ABET, whose requirements are pretty stringent) apparently don't.

What is your hurry to get thru school? Here is a little secret, life in College is MUCH better than life after college. While in college, you get to be around a bunch of similar aged kids, more than 1/2 of them are female, lots of booze, chances to go to some great Spring Break trips, and, if you are lucky, you combine them all and go on drunken Spring Break trips with females. That is the good life.

Once you get done with college, you then have issues like going to work, car payments, rent/mortgage, spouses, kids, taxes, death, and all the other crap that we deal with as adults.

College is the best time of life, don't hurry it.

Meh. I guess it depends on the person. I think my time in the military was the best time of my life. I often wish I'd made a career of it. I've never thought that way about college. I couldn't wait to get it over with.

Rich
 
Some may believe that. The six nationally-recognized accrediting agencies that have accredited TESC (including Middle States and ABET, whose requirements are pretty stringent) apparently don't ...
If you're referring to getting credit for "life experience" it is totally irrelevant what the accrediting agencies think. The relevant question is "What do potential employers think?" and I think JoseCuervo is correct. It looks like a bulls#it way to get college credits. If an applicant told me that half his credits were obtained this way I would view him/her as having half a degree, accrediting agencies notwithstanding.
 
If you're referring to getting credit for "life experience" it is totally irrelevant what the accrediting agencies think. The relevant question is "What do potential employers think?" and I think JoseCuervo is correct. It looks like a bulls#it way to get college credits. If an applicant told me that half his credits were obtained this way I would view him/her as having half a degree, accrediting agencies notwithstanding.

To each his own. We're all entitled to our opinions. Mine is that both you and Jose Cuervo labor under a naive, albeit rather charming belief that traditional undergraduate education in the United States is anything other than a racket to drive traffic to graduate schools by intentionally making Bachelor's degrees useless for any other purpose.

I don't suffer from that handicap. I recognize that with the exception of Engineering and a few other very specialized majors, all Bachelor's degrees are useless paper. That's what they're designed to be. Their purpose is to drive grad school admissions, not to prepare students to make a living.

Accredited non-traditional schools enroll mature, self-directed learners, most of whom acquired their skills by doing actual, productive work in real-world settings. The schools help them to identify and address gaps in their learning, ultimately producing graduates who have something that "traditional" graduates usually don't have: proven, real-world competency in production settings.

When I was an employer, that sort of degree-holder would have interested me a great deal more than one whose degree attested only to their being able to endure four years of sitting on their ass listening to professors and TA's droning on. But hey, to each his own.

Rich
 
Last edited:
If you're referring to getting credit for "life experience" it is totally irrelevant what the accrediting agencies think. The relevant question is "What do potential employers think?" and I think JoseCuervo is correct. It looks like a bulls#it way to get college credits. If an applicant told me that half his credits were obtained this way I would view him/her as having half a degree, accrediting agencies notwithstanding.

Getting credit for an A&P cert is not for 'life experience', it is for having gone through a prescribed training course to obtain the certification. Some A&P schools that are part of a college issue credits right out of the gate, why shouldn't TESC give credits for work done at other types of A&P schools (vocational or private) ? Not sure how they would handle someone who has obtained his A&P through the military or apprentice route.
 
... both you and Jose Cuervo labor under a naive, albeit rather charming belief that traditional undergraduate education in the United States is anything other than a racket to drive traffic to graduate schools by intentionally making Bachelor's degrees useless for any other purpose. ...
Yup. That's me. Driven to get my MSEE and do the coursework for a PhD. by unseen and malevolent forces.

I'm not worried about the country being taken over by guys from the UN in black helicopters either. Just naive, I guess.

Getting credit for an A&P cert is not for 'life experience' ...
No argument from me. I wasn't thinking about A&P experience at all. As a potential employer I would consider A&P school to be real education and real earned credits. I would consider credit for pilot ratings the same way.

I still think the right path for the OP is to get his degree from a real institution with real accreditation and a real academic reputation. Even if there is a plot by dark forces who want him to go to grad school.
 
No argument from me. I wasn't thinking about A&P experience at all. As a potential employer I would consider A&P school to be real education and real earned credits. I would consider credit for pilot ratings the same way.

So apparently you didn't read the links posted to the TESC program, else you would have noticed that they related specifically to credits awarded for FAA certificates.

Rich
 
Having an aeronautical engineering degree and flying are an awesome combo. But I'd advise strongly against an aero eng degree unless you are truly passionate about it. It ties with chemical engineering for the toughest engineering degree but for different reasons. Only about 10% of the class actually finishes the major, most drop down to mechanical, structural, or even nuclear engineering.

EE is no picnic either.
 
I still think the right path for the OP is to get his degree from a real institution with real accreditation and a real academic reputation. Even if there is a plot by dark forces who want him to go to grad school.

TESC is part of the NJ state university system, no different from Rutgers or Kean college. They are just as accredited and if someone wanted to move on from there to grad-school, the entrance requirements of the grad school are the limiting factor (LSAT, GMAT, required pre-med courses), not the piece of parchment the degree is printed on.

He wants to be a commercial pilot, the majors which are still the end-game for most pilots require a 4 year degree. 12 years from now, when he has that interview at Delta, it won't make a difference whether he got a BS in nuclear physics from Princeton or a BS in aviation maintenance from TESC.

I dont think there is a 'fallback degree'. There may be a 'fallback career'. I have met one commercial pilot who has an interest in an insurance agency and another who has all the SEC paperwork to sell securities and futures which he does on a part-time basis. Neither of them would starve if their medical got pulled. The degree is not what you can fall back upon if you can't fly, the skills and connections you have built otherwise are what can keep you afloat.
 
Computer Science. Learn a programming language. It's a great fallback.

Dead end these days. If you don't have 5 years experience in language "x" that was invented last year you are obsolete.
 
Dead end these days. If you don't have 5 years experience in language "x" that was invented last year you are obsolete.

I only meet people trying to get out of IT.

Nothing is more perishable than IT knowledge. Terrible for a fallback qualification.
 
Graduating one year earlier is likely not going to matter down the road.
If you're old and looking back at your life, one year seems like nothing, but I would say it makes quite a bit of difference if you are young and paying for that extra year.

I am one of those who wouldn't voluntarily study or work at something I dislike just for the money or security. If I was forced to, yes. But people are different.
 
When I was an employer, that sort of degree-holder would have interested me a great deal more than one whose degree attested only to their being able to endure four years of sitting on their ass listening to professors and TA's droning on. But hey, to each his own.

Feel free to elaborate? Did you employ in the aviation industry? Do you know what is entailed in the aviation management degree?
 
If you're old and looking back at your life, one year seems like nothing, but I would say it makes quite a bit of difference if you are young and paying for that extra year.

Unless something changes, in the airlines you turn into a pumpkin with your 65th birthday. With the rigid seniority based promotion scheme, a year that you lose up front will cost you a year in the highest pay bracket (in addition to the delta in income for each of the 30 odd years along the way).
 
Feel free to elaborate? Did you employ in the aviation industry? Do you know what is entailed in the aviation management degree?

No, and no. I only worked full-time in aviation for a short time in the early 1980's before getting laid off.

My experience as an employer began in 2000 when I established a computer repair / tech support / consulting business. Most of my employees were part-timers. I eventually did have a few full-timers who lived in or closer to some of the more distant regions we serviced. I sold the business in 2011, keeping for myself only the Web development part (which had started as a hobby but eventually became an offshoot), and semi-retired to the boondocks.

My experience with college students or graduates with I.T. majors was less-than-wonderful. Most of them either were utterly incompetent at the more practical, hands-on sorts of tasks that were the basis for most new client contacts; or else they were unwilling to do that work, considering it beneath their lofty training. I'm talking about things like replacing a NIC, running Ethernet cable to a new workstation location, upgrading a hard drive, upgrading an OS... those sorts of jobs. They weren't exciting, but they were how we got most of our new clients.

It didn't take me long to gravitate toward college students who had a hobby interest in computers, but who weren't I.T. majors, as my part-timers. They were just better at the job. The I.T. majors had more theoretical knowledge, but little or no practical competency in a production environment. They also whined a lot about having to do work that they thought beneath their lofty educations.

Students with majors in almost anything else, but a hobby or peripheral interest in computers, were much better all around. Engineering students as a group were the best, but my very best part-timer was actually a nursing major with a strong hobby interest in computers (especially Linux, which she'd been using as her preferred OS since she'd been in high school).

By the time I sold the business, my reasons for choosing college students as part-timers had become pragmatic: They tended not to be morons, they needed flexible schedules, and they were very loyal. The loyalty was a product of the pay they were getting. The lowest-paid kids were helpers who pulled cables and the like. They got $15.00 / hour. The more skilled kids got as much as $25.00 / hour.

That was pretty astronomical pay by college student standards. But I was billing them high enough to justify it, and they were very loyal and reliable. I also paid for their meals either in person or by giving them petty cash up-front if I wasn't going on the job. I knew that even well-paid college kids sometimes ran short on coin, and I wanted to make sure they ate. That was just a general decency thing. I wanted to be a good boss.

My full-timers were people of a wide age range, some with degrees and some without, most of whom were already doing some sort of onsite tech support or consulting work as a sideline and had sent me resumes seeking full-time jobs. The ones I hired eventually operated pretty much independently. They serviced the more distant parts of our service area with little supervision. They were legally my employees, but they operated more like affiliates.

I really didn't care very much whether they had degrees. By then, I'd already come to view degrees as little more than expensive nail-hole covers. Rather, I made my final decisions based upon the candidates' attitudes and competency during a trial period during which they rode with me and/or with a trusted part-timer. I also sent them on solo calls to clients with whom I had especially friendly relationships, and asked the clients to confidentially evaluate them. On average, maybe a quarter to a third of those who started trial periods made the final cut.

That's my experience in a nutshell. It's also a small part of why I have such a low opinion of American undergraduate education. I believe that almost all majors should be more like engineering or nursing, with the students spending nearly all their time studying their majors and closely-associated disciplines, and little time studying anything else.

That will never happen, however. The only reason it's the case with engineering and nursing is because their respective accrediting agencies force it to be that way. The last thing the education industry as a whole wants is for the average Bachelor's degree recipient to be able to actually make a living in his or her chosen profession because they've learned everything they need to know for entry-level employment. It's much more profitable to teach the same courses at the grad school level for two or three times the coin.

Rich
 
It didn't take me long to gravitate toward college students who had a hobby interest in computers,

<snip>

By the time I sold the business, my reasons for choosing college students as part-timers had become pragmatic: They tended not to be morons, they needed flexible schedules, and they were very loya.l.




Rich



Ironic that someone who has such a low opinion of traditional colleges built a business on the backs of traditional college students who were learning and demonstrating the skills to be successful in life that were. Coming to them from their college work.

You could have built a business on high school dropouts, or GED holders, but, you chose to find success on the backs of kids who "learned how to learn" to the extent that you did not care about the major, but cared more on their ability to learn to do the things you wanted.

I think you pretty much contradicted yourself.
 
Ironic that someone who has such a low opinion of traditional colleges built a business on the backs of traditional college students who were learning and demonstrating the skills to be successful in life that were. Coming to them from their college work.

You could have built a business on high school dropouts, or GED holders, but, you chose to find success on the backs of kids who "learned how to learn" to the extent that you did not care about the major, but cared more on their ability to learn to do the things you wanted.

I think you pretty much contradicted yourself.
I didn't read it that way. The way I read it was that he hired go getters that knew they didn't know everything and were still wanting to learn. If you wait to hire graduates they "know it all" even though they have no practical experience and can't apply what they learned.

I've noticed the same thing that is why we like to hire interns and groom them for after graduation or look for graduates that did intern.
 
If you already have your CFI why not begin with that? If it were me I'd take on a couple of students while taking classes. Begin your networking among pilots there. You're gonna get your next job thru those contacts and pilot network.

Getting the A&P will help you get job #2 and #3 on your way to building flight hours. Nice, but not required. It will lengthen your schooling....but might come in handy later in life. Mine does.

With regards to a college degree....what do you see yourself doing if you lost your medical today? Aviation business pays crappy....even for low time pilots and is no different than a retail career. Even aerospace can be crappy and very cyclical. My career changed several times over the last 35 years. I say pick a skill that can be applied at any location in the country. Mechanical engineering is a strong one, but not an easy degree (mine is aerospace and would recommend against being that specialized). Accounting, medical, nursing, and alike are good ones too.

At the end of the day, if you are after a major airline job....the degree is a check in the box. It doesn't much matter.

What about a military career?.....
 
Last edited:
Ironic that someone who has such a low opinion of traditional colleges built a business on the backs of traditional college students who were learning and demonstrating the skills to be successful in life that were. Coming to them from their college work.

You could have built a business on high school dropouts, or GED holders, but, you chose to find success on the backs of kids who "learned how to learn" to the extent that you did not care about the major, but cared more on their ability to learn to do the things you wanted.

I think you pretty much contradicted yourself.

What I cared about was finding people who were bright, ambitious, enthusiastic, and willing to learn. College placement offices happened to be convenient places to find young people like that.

That doesn't mean, however, that the colleges did these bright youngsters justice by actually preparing them for productive careers upon graduation. Most of the time they did not; and even when they did, it was because an external accrediting agency forced them to do so, not because the education industry believes that doing so is part of their mission. Quite the contrary, it seems to consider its mission to be to limit, by design, how much undergraduate students are allowed to learn in their areas of concentration.

This is also why I chuckle at your disdain for profit-making schools. The whole education industry is a racket worthy of a RICO indictment. It exists more for its own benefit than for that of the students it educates. At least the openly profit-making schools are being honest about it.

Rich
 
Last edited:
... At the end of the day, if you are after a major airline job....the degree is a check in the box. ...
No. You missed the OP's main (and wise) concern: He wants something that he can use if for some reason he cannot fly or chooses not to fly. This is definitely not a box-checking exercise.
 
No. You missed the OP's main (and wise) concern: He wants something that he can use if for some reason he cannot fly or chooses not to fly. This is definitely not a box-checking exercise.
But no one knows what is going to happen in the future. People change careers because they don't like the one they picked originally. I know pilots who didn't start off wanting to be pilots. I also know quite a few younger people who got some sort of aviation degree then decided they didn't want a career as a pilot. Some of these work in aviation at a non-flying job. There are plenty of jobs in aviation which don't involve flying the airplane. Are they as high paying as something like engineering? Probably not. Is the OP even interested in something like engineering or IT? Those fields don't interest me at all. But that depends on the individual and their preferences.
 
But no one knows what is going to happen in the future. People change careers because they don't like the one they picked originally. I know pilots who didn't start off wanting to be pilots. I also know quite a few younger people who got some sort of aviation degree then decided they didn't want a career as a pilot. Some of these work in aviation at a non-flying job. There are plenty of jobs in aviation which don't involve flying the airplane. Are they as high paying as something like engineering? Probably not. Is the OP even interested in something like engineering or IT? Those fields don't interest me at all. But that depends on the individual and their preferences.
I have zero interest in engineering. As for IT I could do it if flying didn't work out but I don't want to sit an office all my life. If I do end up sitting in an office I'd prefer it be at an airport or around aviation

Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk
 
I have zero interest in engineering. As for IT I could do it if flying didn't work out but I don't want to sit an office all my life. If I do end up sitting in an office I'd prefer it be at an airport or around aviation.
I'll repeat my earlier advice, then: Set up some informational interviews with airport operators, corporate flight departments, FBOs, etc. and try to determine what the range of possibilities is and whether a specific aviation management degree is an advantage or required. If you don't get a strong sense that such a narrow degree is important, then consider the advice from several here to get something broader.

You might also benefit from talking to LockMart about AFSS and other jobs. They do a lot of aviation stuff besides just the AFSS one.

You mentioned that your advisor was suggesting aviation management, presumably at your current school. I'm sure he is not a bad guy, but by personal interest and because of his job, he is not going to be completely unbiased in his recommendations. Nobody is completely unbiased.
 
I have zero interest in engineering. As for IT I could do it if flying didn't work out but I don't want to sit an office all my life. If I do end up sitting in an office I'd prefer it be at an airport or around aviation

Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk
Then get your A&P and use maintenance as your backup....

and get a degree in basket weaving....that'll work for the majors.
 
Just remember... This is very seldom a free lunch in life. A degree that is easy to get won't earn you a lot of money generally because a whole lot of other slackers just like you had the same thought. It's a simple case of Supply and Demand. There is an overabundance of slackers with easy degrees.

Want to guarantee a job with decent money? Do something difficult. There are lots of careers that qualify. Many have been mentioned here. Don't choose something because it is easy, even if you're interested in it. Even if it is your passion. It won't be your passion in 20 years time when you can't get a decent job with that crappy degree you got in theatre or knitting or whatever it was you thought was cool and easy at the time.
 
Best degree to get is what interests you the most. Nothing worse than having to do a job you don't like.
 
Best degree to get is what interests you the most. Nothing worse than having to do a job you don't like.


I disagree... Having a job you like that doesn't pay enough to enjoy life is no the answer!

Find a job that is okay from an enjoyment point of view AND pays well and all is good. ;)
 
Back
Top