PilotRPI
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What does it take to become a flight instructor? What are the minimum hour requirements and certifications? I assume you have to have your instrument and commercial. What is the training like after that?
Becoming a CFI
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James331
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James331
Money?
It was by far the cheapest cert I have in my wallet, well minus my ground instructor.
It was also the hardest one I have even went into (went in as a working 500hr CPL, and even now as a professional ATP), I studied the hardest for, and the only ride I went into, based on info from other folks who attempted it with that FSDO, that I was fully expecting to fail the first time despite my hard work, I passed it my first go, also ended up having the same ASI do the paperwork for my gold seal years later, which was also a really cool catchup session.
It's all self study, tutoring folks, hardly any flight hours, maybe doing spins, but by the time you get your CPL you should have done spins at some point in 250hrs, the check rides are free (FSDO initial), my initial CFI, paid for the written(s), maybe 4-5hrs in a arrow, including flying to the FSDO, which was overkill, rest was free, all my study stuff was found online, tutoring was free (for me and the student), went up with some folks and gave some already certed folks and gave some "advice" for free, spent some time in the sims with a few folks too, also free x2, lest amount of money and really no dual instruction for the most part.
Per your question CPL and IFR
The biggest factor is self study and knowing where to find answers, which brings your question, well into question, if you have to ask....
It was by far the cheapest cert I have in my wallet, well minus my ground instructor.
It was also the hardest one I have even went into (went in as a working 500hr CPL, and even now as a professional ATP), I studied the hardest for, and the only ride I went into, based on info from other folks who attempted it with that FSDO, that I was fully expecting to fail the first time despite my hard work, I passed it my first go, also ended up having the same ASI do the paperwork for my gold seal years later, which was also a really cool catchup session.
It's all self study, tutoring folks, hardly any flight hours, maybe doing spins, but by the time you get your CPL you should have done spins at some point in 250hrs, the check rides are free (FSDO initial), my initial CFI, paid for the written(s), maybe 4-5hrs in a arrow, including flying to the FSDO, which was overkill, rest was free, all my study stuff was found online, tutoring was free (for me and the student), went up with some folks and gave some already certed folks and gave some "advice" for free, spent some time in the sims with a few folks too, also free x2, lest amount of money and really no dual instruction for the most part.
Per your question CPL and IFR
The biggest factor is self study and knowing where to find answers, which brings your question, well into question, if you have to ask....
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PilotRPI
Line Up and Wait
I ask because there is a big difference in what the regs say, versus how people actually approach it and what is practical to pass it. Would love to hear peoples' experiences and thoughts. If someone wants their PPL, if we tell them to read the FAR/AIM book to get a feeling for what it is like to get their private, that hardly does the experience justice.
James331
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If you're looking at how to just pass, you'll fail.
There are no shortcuts in that ride, I can't over recommend tutoring folks, that was probably one of the best things I did, occasionally they'd ask a question of have no idea on and we'd both look it up.
There are no shortcuts in that ride, I can't over recommend tutoring folks, that was probably one of the best things I did, occasionally they'd ask a question of have no idea on and we'd both look it up.
Lots of self study. The flying isn't hard.
Many people people lean on their instructor to guide them through the process of getting their initial private pilot certificate. This is understandable, because many of those people have not grown up in a flying family and don't have much aviation knowledge. By the time you have made it through your private rating however, you should have knowledge of where to look to find your answers about pilot certification and general operating rules. So, James' approach is maybe a bit harsh, but the information is out there if you want to search for it.
As far as what certificates you need to have goes, the minimum is going to be an instrument and the correct commercial class rating (I'm assuming we're talking about airplanes here) for what you're wanting to do. So you can go look up the requirements to get those two ratings, if you don't already hold them.
As was already mentioned, you're going to do lots of self study. You're going to need to be able to know regulations and where to find them, know aerodynamics and how to explain them, have knowledge of the fundamentals of instruction (which, by the way, is the only new material introduced in the flight instructor rating), know what endorsements you can give and are required to give a student, have knowledge of aircraft systems, and be able to teach in the classroom setting and also while flying.
There is very little flight time actually needed to prepare for the CFI checkride, I'd say most of the people that have went through the local accelerated course have taken the checkride with 6-8 hours of flight preparation. The CFI checkrides are not really hard, but they are unlike any of the other rides because the examiner is much more interested in checking how much you know and if you can communicate the concepts well enough rather than checking to see how well you fly.
For what it's worth, don't expect earning the flight instructor rating to actually prepare you to teach. You figure that out on your own with the first few students. The checkride is just the method the FAA uses to make sure a person knows enough and can kind of fly. We've all known crummy or inexperienced instructors, generally speaking those guys get better after teaching for a while if they actually enjoy what they're doing and aren't just there as a means to build hours.
As James said, it is going to be a tough checkride to pass if you're just looking to do the bare minimum to get the rating. If you go in with an open mind and are ready to study everything you can get your hands on, then it will be easy.
denverpilot
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You need to realize why they take it very seriously. As someone I know says, "You have the power to turn pedestrians into pilots with the stroke of a pen, and to turn 14 year olds (gliders) loose by themselves in national airspace system. You can take someone who hasn't flown for ten years and with a couple of hours of ground and flight, give them back their full piloting privileges with nothing but your signature."
They have to figure out in a few short hours whether or not you can fly (the least important part - you've already demonstrated that multiple times by then), instruct on the ground, find ways to convey and clarify concepts, show you can evaluate and teach those concepts in flight, allow the pilot to make mistakes while still being ultimately responsible for everyone on board's safety, and do it all in a relatively professional manner.
It really is... a big deal.
They have to figure out in a few short hours whether or not you can fly (the least important part - you've already demonstrated that multiple times by then), instruct on the ground, find ways to convey and clarify concepts, show you can evaluate and teach those concepts in flight, allow the pilot to make mistakes while still being ultimately responsible for everyone on board's safety, and do it all in a relatively professional manner.
It really is... a big deal.
PilotRPI
Line Up and Wait
I am just about to start my instrument. I have about 350 hours. I am contemplating this as I love everything aviation and love teaching. Not looking to build hours quickly or anything like that. Just thinking about things I could do in the future to be involved with aviation. I think it would be a true challenge and honor to bring new people into aviation and to make people better pilots.
I have heard some real horror stories from people, especially those using the CFI to build hours to make the airlines. No interest in that at all.
I have heard some real horror stories from people, especially those using the CFI to build hours to make the airlines. No interest in that at all.
Get your instrument. Add the commercial (pretty quick and relatively easy), then study like heck for the CFI oral which will be the most challenging of them all. But the flying is just doing what you did for the commercial, only from the right seat teaching each of the maneuvers.
If you love aviation, then go for it. I've been a CFI since 1980 and still enjoy sharing the joy of flight with mere mortals as much as I did back then. I'll never stop until the FAA makes me stop.
One other tip: as soon as you take the instrument, go take the Instrument Instructor written and the Instrument Ground Instructor...it's pretty much the same. Same for the Commercial...take the Instructor written and Advance Ground Instructor written right after the commercial...essentially the same tests. You might as well pursue the Instrument Instructor while pursuing your CFI. Then, when you add multi, do the MEI right after. Then you'll have it all.
saddletramp
Line Up and Wait
It is indeed the most difficult to get. I recently reinstated my CFI after a 20 year hiatus. I studied every chance I got for five weeks prior to taking the oral & flight test. My wife was amazed how many hours I buried myself in my study.
The oral exam by the examiner lasted five grueling hours & then a two hour check ride. I performed & explained every commercial maneuver.
I will never let it lapse again. With thousands of hours of instruction under my belt since 1975 (less the twenty years) I can honestly say that I really learned to fly while instructing.
It's worth the hard work & effort. Go for it.
The oral exam by the examiner lasted five grueling hours & then a two hour check ride. I performed & explained every commercial maneuver.
I will never let it lapse again. With thousands of hours of instruction under my belt since 1975 (less the twenty years) I can honestly say that I really learned to fly while instructing.
It's worth the hard work & effort. Go for it.
Vance Breese
Cleared for Takeoff
I have found it very rewarding to teach. I have learned a lot and become a better pilot.
If anything my learning curve has accelerated since I became a flight instructor.
You don't need to memorize the FARs; you just need to know how to look them up and apply them.
My first oral was over eleven hours and I failed it.
My second that I passed was almost five hours and it was a continuation of the first.
(Two calendar months)
Don’t be afraid to fail and try again.
If anything my learning curve has accelerated since I became a flight instructor.
You don't need to memorize the FARs; you just need to know how to look them up and apply them.
My first oral was over eleven hours and I failed it.
My second that I passed was almost five hours and it was a continuation of the first.
(Two calendar months)
Don’t be afraid to fail and try again.
MauleSkinner
Touchdown! Greaser!
What do the regs say that contradicts how people approach it and what is practical to pass it?
Did you already have your CFI-I and MEI? Years ago I had let mine lapse due to the renewal time hitting at the same time as the bar exam and I had to prioritize. I always regretted letting it go. When I decided it was time to get back into instructing I renewed my CFI by adding my CFI-I. Killed two birds with one stone!
saddletramp
Line Up and Wait
No I don't have my MEI-I. I thought about going that route but didn't see an immediate need to get my MEI-I.
I guess I did my reinstatement the hard way but it was also the least expensive route.
It was cool doing the check ride in my own 182. Although I did have to bring my aircraft logbooks to prove it was airworthy. I had the Transponder certified just days before the ride realizing that it has expired.
I guess I did my reinstatement the hard way but it was also the least expensive route.
It was cool doing the check ride in my own 182. Although I did have to bring my aircraft logbooks to prove it was airworthy. I had the Transponder certified just days before the ride realizing that it has expired.
denverpilot
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Going to go through that also with ours. Which I don't mind really. It'll get another set of eyeballs on the paperwork which shouldn't have any problems anyway.
But we are discussing maybe buying ADLog for it. It seems worth the $40/year or so for a nicely organized system. Helps keep everyone honest and mistake free.
Badger Fishinski
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I hold a CFII. I was very active 5+ years ago, but haven't flown since then....
I have kept my currency up by taking the FIRC every TWO years. Obviously I am somewhat rusty.
Since I haven't flown, what are the requirements for:
1.) Just to be able to rent a plane and fly VFR only with friends (passengers)/
2.) Become 100% active again as a working CFII ?
I have kept my currency up by taking the FIRC every TWO years. Obviously I am somewhat rusty.
Since I haven't flown, what are the requirements for:
1.) Just to be able to rent a plane and fly VFR only with friends (passengers)/
2.) Become 100% active again as a working CFII ?
denverpilot
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Welcome to PoA, and your first post...
How many more years "+" than 5? Currency requirements haven't changed for your certificates and ratings in the last five years, but the "+" is vague... do you know what year you stopped flying, or not?
Looks like a spiffy new copy of the 2017 FAR/AIM is in your future! Might as well get used to looking stuff up again!
Hope you enjoy "coming back". A number of us here have taken long breaks from flying and returned to it.
josephades
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ja
I did my commercial and CFI training at the exact same time. I just had to wait for my commercial check ride in order to take my CFI ride. Got used to flying both left and right seat. Best thing I ever did, and saved me so much money
Like others mentioned, take the CFII written while it's all fresh in your mind. My mistake was not doing that, and I had to study from scratch a few months later.
Like others mentioned, take the CFII written while it's all fresh in your mind. My mistake was not doing that, and I had to study from scratch a few months later.
mscard88
Touchdown! Greaser!
Go to your local airport and get a Flight Review. I took a FR course from AOPA for a refresher and printed out the certificate, and the CFI who checked me out accepted it for the one hour ground instruction requirement. I did this awhile back, knocked out the FR while also checking out in the plane so I could rent it. As far as becoming an active CFII, I also talked to the flight school owner and he put me on staff. Haven't done much instructing though as I told the owner let the young instructors have the students as they goals to move on in their aviation careers, and I was there at one point myself. I think the biggest thing now is the automation and sophisticated GPSs in planes now, although this flight school has old Cessna 152/172s w/ steam gauges. But you can begin instructing right away.
Badger Fishinski
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I looked at my logbook this morning. It's been 9 years. I actually went flying with a buddy the other day, and i did pretty good. Just like getting back on a bike again.. as the saying goes. Can I get checked out just to fly VFR so I can knock the rust off on my own time ... and then after I feel good, I can go do the CFII checkout with the CFI? I may have to call FSDO for this answer as it sounds sort of complex. Anybody have any experience in this situation... input is apprecaiated. Here is my dilemn. I would imagine that a CFI who checks me out (endorses me) to be a CFI again, is going to require a more rigorous checkout, and they should and must. What if I tell him I just want him to check me out with a limitation of just flying VFR? I feel I am ready for that now. I'd like to get back to at least being legal to rent a plane VFR again so I can brush up on my CFI type maneuvers (checkout) on my own time solo. What do you guys think? Can i do a simple VFR (PPL) type checkout only, to get in the air quicker solo?
farmerbrake
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farmerbrake
This is what I'm hoping/planning on doing. I'm at about 190 hours tt. Studying to take the commercial, cfi, agi, and foi writtens by the end of october/beginning of November.
Any suggestions?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
denverpilot
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Do it, and have fun?
Have a big dollar amount set aside to do it with?
I did the writtens in May/June, now doing the flying. Commercial/Multi was severely delayed by a list of stuff a mile long that wasn't controllable. Multi/CFI is next. Then backward into single stuff when the airplane comes out of the shop.
MauleSkinner
Touchdown! Greaser!
61.56 is the Flight Review requirement. That's required regardless of VFR/IFR/Whatever.
Whether you act as PIC under VFR or IFR is more a recency issue...61.57 is a good place to start there.
Since you have been keeping your CFI current through the FIRCs, you don't need an "endorsement" to instruct.
No calls to the FSDO necessary.
Honestly, the first thing I'd suggest is reviewing the materials from your FIRCs...every FIRC I've done addresses the issues of Flight Reviews, recency, and flight instructor privileges and limitations.
farmerbrake
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farmerbrake
I have a decent amount set aside lol. Although not as much as what you needed for all that multi stuff.Do it, and have fun?
Have a big dollar amount set aside to do it with?
I did the writtens in May/June, now doing the flying. Commercial/Multi was severely delayed by a list of stuff a mile long that wasn't controllable. Multi/CFI is next. Then backward into single stuff when the airplane comes out of the shop.
Plus I'm flying in my own (complex) plane, which really helps reduce the cost.
The hardest part for me as a CFI was figuring out the wording for signoffs. Surely there must be a book somewhere with recommended ones, but I never had it. (Im not an instructor anymore) Might look into that.
denverpilot
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Ha yeah. The multi has been kinda spendy. I knew that going in, so the savings account dropping rapidly isn't as scary as it might have been if I wasn't expecting the sudden downdraft. LOL.
Flying your own plane should be nice. I'm kinda looking forward to that part myself. I did buy a new little folder to put copies of the maintenance stuff in, so the examiner won't be laughing too hard at the high tech ziploc baggie that the important paperwork lives in today in the map pocket. Hahaha. Even got a "fancy" ziplock thingy with solid clear plastic to make that look a little prettier.
Probably make up a few nicely printed sheets for stuff like oil changes and VOR checks too, even though our leather bound notebook also shoved in the sidewall pocket is plenty legal with our handwritten chicken scratches in it. LOL.
Might as well make it all look cosmetically prettier. Gives a feel of being more organized, but frankly, I haven't had any trouble finding the appropriate chicken scratches to check things are legal in the last seven years. Since I'm the only IFR rated and current pilot flying the airplane, I'm usually the one who does the VOT test and writes it down, and it's usually me or the guy who keeps the logbooks who notices the static test is due, etc.
But a pretty rental notebook with color coded pages, it definitely isn't.
Heh. Beat me to it.
That AC plus these...
Pick your poison. Print them all on labels or learn to write real real small. Or both.
The pens are Pilot G2 0.38mm - the Ultra Fine ones. Don't bother with the 1.0, 0.7 or 0.5mm versions.
And the labels work real well. I sure wish some of the endorsements in my old logbooks were done right. Some of them really get the evil eye from folks, and I shrug and say I'll be happy to go get someone smarter to write another one in there if they like.
A particularly great one says this... and was written in the early 90s by an instructor who's still around and probably still writing them this badly... oh and I'm a lot smarter about what CFIs I'll use these days. I wouldn't fly with that guy without handing him a sticker and even then, probably wouldn't. But what did I know about it back then? Nada.
"A/C Check out. High perf. BFR. [Name, CFI Number, Signature.]"
Probably the only reason it slides by is that it was written that long ago. The Complex endorsement was legal, only because he used a pre-printed one in the back of the logbook. And it was also prior to 1997 when there weren't two endorsements for complex and high performance anyway. So I just show the one in the back and explain the 1997 change and then show them the bad one, with a "look what this prick did to my logbook" face on.
Even better? Done in a less than 200 HP aircraft. But he wrote "Hi perf." I mean seriously, you have to have your head square up and locked to do that to someone's logbook. Solidifies my "modern" opinion of the guy, at least, every time I have to explain that BS endorsement to anyone.
Anyway, labels. They work. I don't mind the extra couple of lines I have to leave blank in the book below that line if someone decides to stick it in the log section. Much better than explaining a doofus-written one years later. Plus the sticker makes them easy to find.
That AC is already copied into my iPad. I'm not going to be "that guy".
Yep. The school I worked at made it easy for us and had everything nicely printed out on labels and tabbed for pre solo, private, IR, etc.Ha yeah. The multi has been kinda spendy. I knew that going in, so the savings account dropping rapidly isn't as scary as it might have been if I wasn't expecting the sudden downdraft. LOL.
Flying your own plane should be nice. I'm kinda looking forward to that part myself. I did buy a new little folder to put copies of the maintenance stuff in, so the examiner won't be laughing too hard at the high tech ziploc baggie that the important paperwork lives in today in the map pocket. Hahaha. Even got a "fancy" ziplock thingy with solid clear plastic to make that look a little prettier.
Probably make up a few nicely printed sheets for stuff like oil changes and VOR checks too, even though our leather bound notebook also shoved in the sidewall pocket is plenty legal with our handwritten chicken scratches in it. LOL.
Might as well make it all look cosmetically prettier. Gives a feel of being more organized, but frankly, I haven't had any trouble finding the appropriate chicken scratches to check things are legal in the last seven years. Since I'm the only IFR rated and current pilot flying the airplane, I'm usually the one who does the VOT test and writes it down, and it's usually me or the guy who keeps the logbooks who notices the static test is due, etc.
But a pretty rental notebook with color coded pages, it definitely isn't.
Heh. Beat me to it.
That AC plus these...
Pick your poison. Print them all on labels or learn to write real real small. Or both.
The pens are Pilot G2 0.38mm - the Ultra Fine ones. Don't bother with the 1.0, 0.7 or 0.5mm versions.
And the labels work real well. I sure wish some of the endorsements in my old logbooks were done right. Some of them really get the evil eye from folks, and I shrug and say I'll be happy to go get someone smarter to write another one in there if they like.
A particularly great one says this... and was written in the early 90s by an instructor who's still around and probably still writing them this badly... oh and I'm a lot smarter about what CFIs I'll use these days. I wouldn't fly with that guy without handing him a sticker and even then, probably wouldn't. But what did I know about it back then? Nada.
"A/C Check out. High perf. BFR. [Name, CFI Number, Signature.]"
Probably the only reason it slides by is that it was written that long ago. The Complex endorsement was legal, only because he used a pre-printed one in the back of the logbook. And it was also prior to 1997 when there weren't two endorsements for complex and high performance anyway. So I just show the one in the back and explain the 1997 change and then show them the bad one, with a "look what this prick did to my logbook" face on.
Even better? Done in a less than 200 HP aircraft. But he wrote "Hi perf." I mean seriously, you have to have your head square up and locked to do that to someone's logbook. Solidifies my "modern" opinion of the guy, at least, every time I have to explain that BS endorsement to anyone.
Anyway, labels. They work. I don't mind the extra couple of lines I have to leave blank in the book below that line if someone decides to stick it in the log section. Much better than explaining a doofus-written one years later. Plus the sticker makes them easy to find.
That AC is already copied into my iPad. I'm not going to be "that guy".
denverpilot
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I'm not that tech savvySlacker! I gotta make my own labels!
josephades
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ja
Do the CFII check ride right away once the CFI stuff is out of the way. Your brain is still in learning mode. Other than that - I definitely suggest you go up with another pilot and fly right seat. It takes some getting used to, especially when it comes to short/soft/regular landings. Steep turns is also a tough one from the right seat.
I didnt have to study for my commercial because whatever you study for CFI is the exact same material - only difference is that you are teaching it, rather than directly answering questions
The more studying and preparing you do at home, the less you deal with the instructor. For CFI material - FAA's airplane flying handbook and PHAK are gold. I also used scott sosha's lesson plans, available for free online - but use whatever your instructor recommends, because I am sure he is adapted to teaching a specific way.
denverpilot
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Catalo
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Catalo
You cam print out the endorsements from the aopa website free. Double check they are correct before using them but I did that for my intial and the examiner had no issueSlacker! I gotta make my own labels!
Slacker! I gotta make my own labels!
Just use the ones that ASA has available for free. You'll still have to print them out though.
farmerbrake
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farmerbrake
Thanks for all the tips! CFII is going to happen right after the cfi initial. I've been reading through all the FAA stuff (include the CFI manual). Hard to read it like a normal book, so I mix it up a little.
Other pilots are great aren't they? Free to use, they can play dumb (for some that comes naturally haha), and can provide good conversation and feedback!