BE35 down at VUO (Vancouver WA), 1 fatal

[Pilawt]

https://www.columbian.com/news/2022/jun/28/one-person-killed-in-plane-crash-at-pearson-in-vancouver/

Photo shows the burned wreckage inverted near the displaced threshhold of runway 26. METAR 15 minutes after the accident was reported:

KVUO 281458Z AUTO 15007KT 1 3/4SM HZ FEW002 BKN041 16/10 A3013 RMK AO2 T01560100

Edit: Paper says accident reported at 7:40 (1440Z). There was another METAR at 7:53:
KVUO 281453Z AUTO 14006KT 1/2SM HZ FEW002 SCT039 16/10 A3013 RMK AO2 VIS M1/4V5 SLP204 T01560100 51019

 

[schmookeeg]

V35B. The mind boggles how bad a landing needs to be to end up as a kingsford briquette. RIP

 

[Pilawt]

"Impossible turn" after takeoff from runway 8? Guesswork at this point.

 

[schmookeeg]

The LiveATC recordings are... puzzling at best. Seems he was having transponder trouble, wanted help finding a hole in the clouds... just on the back foot from the get-go.

 

[midwestpa24]

Looking at the weather data, it was probably perfectly clear at takeoff, but 15 minutes later the airport got socked in by a haze/cloud bank. Maybe took off and realized VFR was not going to be possible and tried to beat it back in?

 

[woodchucker]

ughhh. Do you ever wonder when you get lucky? Or end up as a post on a random aviation site? I know I got lucky once. Many years ago. The traditional VMC to IMC. Got lucky in that I knew for a fact an airport was directly at my six. Descending 180, maintaining control, found the runway after crawling along at low altitude until I found the markings and sat there for many hours until the storm cleared. When I read about this stuff I feel I was lucky and not good. But I was good. I wasn't an idiot. I knew where I was, what was available and was able to make stuff happen so I didn't end up on a site like PoA. But any one thing may have changed the outcome. So I was lucky in that sense. I do appreciate the chance that life granted that day. And then again, on the return, got stuck in an updraft. Unbelievable. A frickin' 160 hp 172 and rode it up to 15k or so with absolutely no ability to do anything but keep the wings level, the wife and doggie asleep. If you have not got stuck in an updraft you have not been living life as a pilot. Two crazy events in one trip. Have you ever been stuck in an updraft and wondered when the plane would give up? Yeah, that was me. Like, how much more does the plane have before it just quits? I got lucky. Again. Topped out at 15k+. Don't actually remember the max altitude achieved. Let things settle. Caught my breath and descended. Flight Following was like what's going on? Yeah ... let me get back to you.

 

[Himayeti]

ughhh. Do you ever wonder when you get lucky? Or end up as a post on a random aviation site? I know I got lucky once. Many years ago. The traditional VMC to IMC. Got lucky in that I knew for a fact an airport was directly at my six. Descending 180, maintaining control, found the runway after crawling along at low altitude until I found the markings and sat there for many hours until the storm cleared. When I read about this stuff I feel I was lucky and not good. But I was good. I wasn't an idiot. I knew where I was, what was available and was able to make stuff happen so I didn't end up on a site like PoA. But any one thing may have changed the outcome. So I was lucky in that sense. I do appreciate the chance that life granted that day. And then again, on the return, got stuck in an updraft. Unbelievable. A frickin' 160 hp 172 and rode it up to 15k or so with absolutely no ability to do anything but keep the wings level, the wife and doggie asleep. If you have not got stuck in an updraft you have not been living life as a pilot. Two crazy events in one trip. Have you ever been stuck in an updraft and wondered when the plane would give up? Yeah, that was me. Like, how much more does the plane have before it just quits? I got lucky. Again. Topped out at 15k+. Don't actually remember the max altitude achieved. Let things settle. Caught my breath and descended. Flight Following was like what's going on? Yeah ... let me get back to you.

Sounds as if you were riding wave lift, usually very smooth air, with lift as you describe. A lenticular cloud may mark it, but on a blue day only the ground below you and winds aloft will help you find it.

It's actually pretty easy to get out of it. All you have to do is turn against the wind (fly perpendicular to the liftband) and you will exit it quickly. Don't turn downwind, especially if there is a cloud. You will quickly find yourself in IMC and many accidents have occurred in that scenario.

I fly gliders, but have also used wave lift to climb at > 2000ft/min on a Malibu many times. It's turbulent to get into, but once in it, it's incredibly smooth. Flying up to 30,000 ft is not uncommon for gliders and a recent world record took a glider to some 76,000 feet (Perlan project).

 

[luvflyin]

"Impossible turn" after takeoff from runway 8? Guesswork at this point.

There's a Flight Aware or maybe it was adsbexchange or something like that, track. Saw it on Beechtalk. I can't figure out how to get the link. Departed 8 looking to do the north shore eastbound. Around the 205 he reverses course and heads Westbound up the East end Vancouver Lake. At the North end, reverses course and heads back to VUO. Pretty much into a right base for 26. A very tight right base. Here's some radio on it.
https://archive.liveatc.net/kpdx/KPDX3-Twr-Jun-28-2022-1400Z.mp3 Guy who posted it said start at about 30 minutes.

And https://archive.liveatc.net/kvuo/KPDX-KVUO-CTAF-Guard-Jun-28-2022-1430Z.mp3 He said start this one at about 5 minutes.

 

[Pilawt]

There's a Flight Aware or maybe it was adsbexchange or something like that, track. Saw it on Beechtalk. I can't figure out how to get the link. Departed 8 looking to do the north shore eastbound. Around the 205 he reverses course and heads Westbound up the East end Vancouver Lake. At the North end, reverses course and heads back to VUO. Pretty much into a right base for 26. A very tight right base.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N444PM/history/20220628/1423Z/KVUO/KVUO

 

[4RNB]

Sounds as if you were riding wave lift, usually very smooth air, with lift as you describe. A lenticular cloud may mark it, but on a blue day only the ground below you and winds aloft will help you find it.

It's actually pretty easy to get out of it. All you have to do is turn against the wind (fly perpendicular to the liftband) and you will exit it quickly. Don't turn downwind, especially if there is a cloud. You will quickly find yourself in IMC and many accidents have occurred in that scenario.

I fly gliders, but have also used wave lift to climb at > 2000ft/min on a Malibu many times. It's turbulent to get into, but once in it, it's incredibly smooth. Flying up to 30,000 ft is not uncommon for gliders and a recent world record took a glider to some 76,000 feet (Perlan project).

Can you expand on this, perhaps write out on paper and upload a photo? This sounds like great stuff to know but I can't visualize your escape technique.

 

[Himayeti]

Imagine an obstacle on a river, a log, and water rolling over it. You're fly fishing and you observe the almost motionless wave that is created as the water hits the log, just a bit downstream from it (primary wave).

If you're observant you may see two or three smaller waves behind it (secondary or tertiary waves).

The waves are all PARALLEL to the log. The part closest to the log has an upward component, and leeward it has a downward component.

If you're a ladybug riding a leaf with some sort of rudder, you could ride the upward component of the wave and stay in it by coasting along parallel to the log. Just stay in the right spot and this clever ladybug can soar all afternoon back and forth along the log. She can decide how high on the wave she rides by making slight turns and checking whether she is going up or down.

As the afternoon sun begins to set, the ladybug has two choices to return home. She can make a 90 degree turn towards the current or a 90 degree in the direction of the current. Both will give her a quick exit.

Glider pilots do the same and can do 1000 mile flights up and down the Sierra Nevada by yo-yo-ing in the wave. Once they're tired, the get off it by making a 90 degree turn either way.

Inside the wave it's as smooth as ice for flying. Almost boring. The entry and exit are always turbulent.

Flying my Malibu out of the Carson Valley (5000 ft) I can sometimes climb to 15, 000 at 2,500 ft/min with the power pulled back. Usually I can pick the wave up at around 9,000 ft and I know I'm about to enter it because the turbulence stops and my VSI begins to liven up. I then turn and fly parallel to Lake Tahoe and take it up as far as needed. Gliders have taken it up to 40,000 ft!

One final caveat. If you're not flying pressurized, be ready to use oxygen. You'll need it quickly!

Hope this helps!

 

[4RNB]

Imagine an obstacle on a river, a log, and water rolling over it. You're fly fishing and you observe the almost motionless wave that is created as the water hits the log, just a bit downstream from it (primary wave).

If you're observant you may see two or three smaller waves behind it (secondary or tertiary waves).

The waves are all PARALLEL to the log. The part closest to the log has an upward component, and leeward it has a downward component.

If you're a ladybug riding a leaf with some sort of rudder, you could ride the upward component of the wave and stay in it by coasting along parallel to the log. Just stay in the right spot and this clever ladybug can soar all afternoon back and forth along the log. She can decide how high on the wave she rides by making slight turns and checking whether she is going up or down.

As the afternoon sun begins to set, the ladybug has two choices to return home. She can make a 90 degree turn towards the current or a 90 degree in the direction of the current. Both will give her a quick exit.

Glider pilots do the same and can do 1000 mile flights up and down the Sierra Nevada by yo-yo-ing in the wave. Once they're tired, the get off it by making a 90 degree turn either way.

Inside the wave it's as smooth as ice for flying. Almost boring. The entry and exit are always turbulent.

Flying my Malibu out of the Carson Valley (5000 ft) I can sometimes climb to 15, 000 at 2,500 ft/min with the power pulled back. Usually I can pick the wave up at around 9,000 ft and I know I'm about to enter it because the turbulence stops and my VSI begins to liven up. I then turn and fly parallel to Lake Tahoe and take it up as far as needed. Gliders have taken it up to 40,000 ft!

One final caveat. If you're not flying pressurized, be ready to use oxygen. You'll need it quickly!

Hope this helps!

So, does one fly along a mountain range to experience such things and they perpendicular exit is to stop flying the mountain range? So, a mount range running north south direction, one can fly north or south to experience an updraft, but fly east or west to escape?

Are there severe updrafts places other than mountain ranges to be concerned with? Might poster Woodchucker have been flying anywhere else?

Thank you.

 

[Himayeti]

So, does one fly along a mountain range to experience such things and they perpendicular exit is to stop flying the mountain range? So, a mount range running north south direction, one can fly north or south to experience an updraft, but fly east or west to escape?

Are there severe updrafts places other than mountain ranges to be concerned with? Might poster Woodchucker have been flying anywhere else?

Thank you.

Remember that flying along mountain ranges can give you 2 types of lift: Ridge lift which is generated when wind hits the mountain and rises, and wave lift. Both are very different.

Exiting the lift in both cases is a turn perpendicular to the range. Just pay attention to which side you choose since with you may end up in a big downdraft with the exit.

Once you understand these concepts, it's actually safe to fly in them and you can use these forces to your advantage both for quick climbs or high rate descents.

 

[Himayeti]

So, does one fly along a mountain range to experience such things and they perpendicular exit is to stop flying the mountain range? So, a mount range running north south direction, one can fly north or south to experience an updraft, but fly east or west to escape?

Are there severe updrafts places other than mountain ranges to be concerned with? Might poster Woodchucker have been flying anywhere else?

Thank you.

Forgot to mention other types of lift we commonly use as sailplane pilots:

1. Thermals. These can take us up to well over 20,000 ft but they're are small in size compared to what you ridge or wave lift. You can easily identify these because when you fly through them they won't last long (10 seconds at most) and to climb in them you must turn in tight circles. On a good day, I've done tight turns in a Malibu to increase my climb rate using thermals.

2. Convergence lines. We often see these East of the Sierras. Telltale signs are bumpiness (light chop) as you cruise along, and cloud bands at different altitudes. These occur when the wind from the Pacific comes over the Sierras and encounters the high pressure of the Nevada desert. We can actually ride these sometimes for 100 miles without losing altitude. On a power plane you can descend through these by just cutting the power back.

I still think Woodchucker was in wave lift. If he confirms that it was smooth lift, case closed. All he had to do is turn 90 degrees and in 15-30 seconds he would have been out of it.