Bathroom Breaks

Clark1961 said:
Consider the number of folks who have difficulty with certain activities as demonstrated by evidence in public restrooms the world over. Face it, some people are challenged by micturition and other elimination activities including expectoration and defecation.
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Then they need a plane with a lav... That's the real solution. Porta-potties fir in most 4 seat airplanes anyway.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Also, this is the longest discussion about pee I have ever been involved in. Very interesting.
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Wait till you attend a safety meeting on hydration given by a 29 Palms Marine Gunny Sgt. 2 hours discussing intake and output. And when he said to be properly hydrated you should be peeing every 20-30 minutes and it should be clear. first time I'd ever been in a room with 150 pilots that were suddenly struck dumb.

:rofl:
 
What a treasure this thread is!
 
In the cockpit of a small plane is neither like being on the tarmac on a sunny day, nor like sitting in an office. It's like being in the mountains.

Let's say you drink coffee in the morning, and a cola on the way to the airport. You're probably down a quart from the diuretic effects of that. You'd lose a cup from preflight in the heat, and a cup per hour from breathing and sweating. Add in the accelerationfrom hanging out at altitude. It's easy to be down 1.5-2 quarts before you get out of the cockpit. That's enough for many people to start getting headaches, cognitive impairment, etc.
 
xaminmo said:
In the cockpit of a small plane is neither like being on the tarmac on a sunny day, nor like sitting in an office. It's like being in the mountains.

Let's say you drink coffee in the morning, and a cola on the way to the airport. You're probably down a quart from the diuretic effects of that. You'd lose a cup from preflight in the heat, and a cup per hour from breathing and sweating. Add in the accelerationfrom hanging out at altitude. It's easy to be down 1.5-2 quarts before you get out of the cockpit. That's enough for many people to start getting headaches, cognitive impairment, etc.
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That's where you've gone wrong with assumption. I don't drink coffee, and I've had maybe 5 colas since February, none before flying. My preflight is done in my nice cool hangar, and I can't remember the last time I sweated in a plane. Gaston's of '09 maybe?
 
EdFred said:
That's where you've gone wrong with assumption. I don't drink coffee, and I've had maybe 5 colas since February, none before flying. My preflight is done in my nice cool hangar, and I can't remember the last time I sweated in a plane. Gaston's of '09 maybe?
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I made no assumptions as to your specific physiology, nor your habits. Any use of second person was purely out of habit, and should really have been in third person.

My point was that you have made assertations that anyone who has problems with altitude is out of shape. That assertation is false. I was stating a few of the small, controllable factors. Beyond that, behavior alone and health alone do not control hydration at altitude. Even the most physically fit 20 year old shows up on probability tables for risk of dehydration for anything other than a short flight at altitude.

Just because you, personally, have extremely controlled conditions, and because you personally have not yet had ill effects from improper hydration does not make it a universal fact. My concern was that the manner in which you present your assertions might lead other, less experienced pilots to make mistakes that could be fatal.
 
Interesting paper on human water needs.

http://www.cism-milsport.org/eng/004_SPORT_AND_SCIENCE/articles-and-pdfs/004-hydration.pdf

Figure 2 provides a summary of the median total water intake for each age group for men and women.4 These data were used to set the AI. For adult men and women, the AI was 3.7 and 2.7 L per day, respectively, and required no adjustment for advancing age. For pregnant and lactating women, the AI was increased by 0.3 L and 1.1 L, respectively. Like other AIs for healthy people, water intakes below or above the AI may not impose any health risk (or adverse performance consequences) because of the extreme variability in human water needs.
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Note that "AI" in their study stands for "average intake", not minimum or ideal intake. All other factors remaining the same, there is quite a bit of variability between people's metabolisms. Therefore I don't think it's useful to hector people to drink or to imply that others are out-of-shape because they always seem to be drinking. I also think it's difficult for people who fall on one end or the other of the scale to imagine why the other side thinks that way.

Note also that we are talking about flight of what, a maximum of about 4 hours, not an all-day affair.
 
I don't see the issue, you pee before you go, and take a drink off a drink when you're thirsty. If you can't pee in a container, either buy a plane with a lav or land and pee. Most of the time though flying at altitude, if I pee before I go and just sip at a drink throughout, I won't have to pee for 6 or more hours due to the speed of depletion at altitude. This is GA, we get to land when we want and get out of the plane when we want. We aren't bound by threat of imprisonment to not pee or get out of the airplane.
 
Well it is settled. I officially do not need to worry about needing to go to the bathroom on an airplane. I flew my first "long" solo cross country and between the time I left the flight school and the time I got back perhaps 4-6 hours had gone by. I used the bathroom at Chico, but probably didn't have to, and that was the only time.

So hooray, no more looking for coffee cans and kitty litter. I'm good.

(Yes, I brought a bottle of water with me and bought a soda at the FBO at Chico).

In fact, on another flight I remember BEFORE I got in the plane for a 2 hour solo to the practice area I had to go to the bathroom, but didn't, and then when I got back I went. So flying kind of "takes your mind off" these things.

Yay for bladders of steel!
 
I do not recommend small-mouthed water bottles. Don't ask me how I know.
 
I was wondering about this myself. I recently flew to Hilton Head Island, SC, from Fort Worth Texas, with 4 hour legs.

Wasn't an issue though!
 
I think of it the same way I plan car trips. Not just for restroom breaks but for comfort; being able to get out and stretch my legs helps me stay alert.
I fly 172's which can go more than 5 hours without refueling. Personally, I do not want to be sitting in any plane or car for 5 hours. So when I plan a flight, I plan for stops.
These stops give us an opportunity to land at other airports and meet other people. Sometimes there are interesting aircraft parked there, which we all love to look at. If we're not buying fuel we can always buy one of their T-shirts or hats as souvenirs.
 
Three days ago I flew from Centennial near Denver to Tucson. Five hours and 31 minutes from engine start to engine stop. I drank water when I got thirsty. I even downed a grape juicebox from Trader Joe's. My emergency bottle remained empty. I am very proud of myself.
 
There was a glider accident a while back where the pilot had been "holding it" for several hours. His distraction due to needing to go may have contributed to the somewhat-botched forced landing. Worse, though, his overfull bladder burst on impact, turning what would have been scrapes and bruises into injuries with serious medical complications.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
http://portal.wowway.net/news/read.php?id=18799574&ps=1020&lang=en

"Peter Snyder and his colleagues found that having a bladder at its bursting point reduced attention span and the ability to make decisions to the same degree expected with low levels of alcohol intoxication or 24 hours of sleep deprivation. "
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I have no problem accepting those findings, that's why I always have a pee bottle. Nothing worse than bumping along in an approach in pain. I don't do it, I just pee before I come off cruise.
 
I find that what makes the biggest physiological difference for me, especially when it comes to O2 deprivation and pressure issues is my level of hydration. If I process half a liter of a non diuretic drink per hour, especially if it caries some glucose, I can maintain an acceptable level of performance and depending on altitude I may only pee at the end of 4.5 hrs if then. If I up the processing to even three quarters of a liter per hour, I feel even more alert, especially at night. I do have to pee hourly at that.
 
A nice hollowed out pumpkin works just fine. If you do it right you'll even have a lid.
 
Danos said:
A nice hollowed out pumpkin works just fine. If you do it right you'll even have a lid.
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Hollowed out pumpkins can give you hours of fun. For those of us so well endowed.
 
:rolleyes: Yes. The hole can be cut accordingly, but why waste an entire pumpkin when there are other foods like melons and kiwis?
 
pericynthion said:
There was a glider accident a while back where the pilot had been "holding it" for several hours. His distraction due to needing to go may have contributed to the somewhat-botched forced landing. Worse, though, his overfull bladder burst on impact, turning what would have been scrapes and bruises into injuries with serious medical complications.
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There was a British test pilot in the WWII era who was nicknamed "Mutt". Somebody started calling him that after observing his habit of relieving himself on the tailwheel tire just before taking off. It is said that he was well aware of the hazards of crashing an airplane with a full bladder.

I don't know where the idea of peeing on tires comes from, but it may well come from observing the actions of dogs. I have known people who did so - and also a dog who was known to lift his leg over his owner's airplane wheel.

Dave
 
My most frequent destinations are just over 4 hours away, and it's rarely a problem. I just hold off on the mega-cup of strong black coffee before departure, because caffeine is a pretty good diuretic. One time I forgot, enjoyed my pre-departure coffee, and an hour into the flight, at 12,000 feet, solo, was chagrined to realize I could think of nothing else but the location of the nearest ladies' room. So in desperation, I told ATC my destination was changed to the airport 30 miles ahead instead of the one 570 miles ahead. He wanted to know why I had to land so soon. I sweetly admitted, "Uh, hydraulic issues?" He chuckled and said, "Roger, gotcha, we'll catch up with you on the other side." I swore NEXT time I'll be prepared. I bought a couple of those disposable rigs that have a cardboard folding funnel attached to a plastic bag full of absorbent granules. A wet-wipe packet is included. Next time the need presented itself some years later when we were just 30 minutes from our destination, I had a chance to try the thing out. Set the autopilot, asked the right-seater to keep an eye on things and listen for our N number, excused myself to the rear of the aircraft, and unfolded a sectional chart for privacy. The disposable funnel-bag gizmo worked neat as you please. When the old man is along, he skips his blood pressure diuretic and his coffee that morning, and we plan on legs no longer than 3.5 hours.

Preparing for a 9-hour very-small-sailboat ferrying trip last week, I tried a test-run with a toddler-size overnight-Pamper. Um...good idea... not. Suffice it to say, I skipped the next morning's coffee instead.

Speaking of pee-threads, I swear, the boating forums seem to be fixated on the subject, which is apparently fraught with all manner of difficulties. You'd think cruising sailors spend their whole day in the head.
 
Amelia said:
My most frequent destinations are just over 4 hours away, and it's rarely a problem. I just hold off on the mega-cup of strong black coffee before departure, because caffeine is a pretty good diuretic. One time I forgot, enjoyed my pre-departure coffee, and an hour into the flight, at 12,000 feet, solo, was chagrined to realize I could think of nothing else but the location of the nearest ladies' room. So in desperation, I told ATC my destination was changed to the airport 30 miles ahead instead of the one 570 miles ahead. He wanted to know why I had to land so soon. I sweetly admitted, "Uh, hydraulic issues?" He chuckled and said, "Roger, gotcha, we'll catch up with you on the other side." I swore NEXT time I'll be prepared. I bought a couple of those disposable rigs that have a cardboard folding funnel attached to a plastic bag full of absorbent granules. A wet-wipe packet is included. Next time the need presented itself some years later when we were just 30 minutes from our destination, I had a chance to try the thing out. Set the autopilot, asked the right-seater to keep an eye on things and listen for our N number, excused myself to the rear of the aircraft, and unfolded a sectional chart for privacy. The disposable funnel-bag gizmo worked neat as you please. When the old man is along, he skips his blood pressure diuretic and his coffee that morning, and we plan on legs no longer than 3.5 hours.

Preparing for a 9-hour very-small-sailboat ferrying trip last week, I tried a test-run with a toddler-size overnight-Pamper. Um...good idea... not. Suffice it to say, I skipped the next morning's coffee instead.

Speaking of pee-threads, I swear, the boating forums seem to be fixated on the subject, which is apparently fraught with all manner of difficulties. You'd think cruising sailors spend their whole day in the head.
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Excused yourself to the rear of the aircraft?

What type of plane were you flying that day?
 
I do put on airs!.... Back seat of the Mooney was blessedly unoccupied.
 
Amelia said:
Pumpkins, kiwis, and melons? And here I thought you poor saps had women falling all over themselves to avail themselves of your superior skillz. I had no idea you were reduced to making do with produce.
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How many Pilots Of America fly-ins have you been to?

You should see these guys . . .
 
I always fly XC's with a bag of potato chips or pretzels, and plenty of water...

With thanks to Mr. George Braly, as posted on the Cardinal Flyers Online...

The trick on the bladder control is this:

1) Wake up - - and don't drink too much. No coffee.

2) Empty the bladder a couple of times, including the obligatory last trip
to the water closet before departure.

3) Either just before departure or just after, eat something salty.

4) Do a direct climb to some altitude above 10,000'. Higher is better.

5) Go on O2 (it is dry, by definition).

6) Within that time frame, your body will start to "think" it is
dehydrating (it is) and your kidneys will quit dumping very much fluid into
the bladder.

7) After about 90 minutes, you can start to sip the beverage of your
choice, preferably not coffee - - and you SHOULD do that in order to avoid
a dehydration headache later in the trip.

My wife has one of the all time midget bladders. Formerly, she could not do
2.5 hour legs.

Two years ago, she did 7+30 from SMX to Ada, non-stop into a head wind.
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After more then 100 hours of being in a plane I experienced the "biological effects" of having too much water. Fortunately I had another pilot in the plane and so he landed it for me. I can imagine the hurry I would've been (to get it on the ground and taxied) if I were solo.
 
I had to do the biological emergency dive (as henning once called it) today. Forgot my trusty gatorade bottle and had a big cup of coffee in the FBO just before departing wilmington for sanford. Normally this is only a 50 minute ride but I was in a 152 and had a nasty headwind so I was flying low and getting bladder punched by turbulence.

I landed at clinton - sampson county airport with probably the fastest and tightest pattern ever witnessed in a 152. (no traffic around) When I hopped out the line guy asked if I needed any service and I said I just came to use the bathroom. "No wonder" he said


At least my return trip was preceded by a 50 knot tailwind at 9,500' to wilmington.. here is a screen shot of my groundspeed in a 152
 

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I'm thinking pilots should be introduced to medical grade catheters. There's ads on TV for them "at little or no cost to you"... Though, I think I'll let you guys try that out first and let me know how it works out for you.
 
Amelia said:
Preparing for a 9-hour very-small-sailboat ferrying trip last week, I tried a test-run with a toddler-size overnight-Pamper. Um...good idea... not. Suffice it to say, I skipped the next morning's coffee instead.
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Just heave-to and lash the rudder. You won't be moving more than 2-3 knots and the motion of the boat is substantially eased. This works well in most boats
 
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