BasicMed and mild red/green color blindness

gdwindowpane

gdwindowpane

Pre-takeoff checklist
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gdwindowpane
I just recently went through BasicMed and have a few questions.

I went to my eye doctor to be tested for color blindness before going to an AME for my third class. Passed the color vision test, barely, but passed. Contacted the AME and scheduled my physical. Informed him that I had already gotten my vision screened and would provide him the report. He says don't bother, he needs to test regardless. I failed his test (given by one of his nurses). Eventually get my third class with day time only restriction. I didn't pursue other tests or the light test at a controlled airport.

Now qualified for BasicMed. Make another appointment with my eye doctor and get her to fill out a form 8500-7 to give to my PCP as I'm not sure he has the equipment for vision testing. Eye doctor asks me why there isn't any color vision reference on the form? Told her I didn't know. So we didn't test for it.

Give my PCP the 8500-7 and get the physical. He checks all the boxes and signs off. His first BasicMed.

So will I be allowed to fly at night? I'm still a student and haven't done any night flying yet.

Thanks!!!

Chris
 
Its basic med... I think its up to you to decide... I'm not a doctor, and not sure what color vision has to do with night flying, except for all the pretty lights on the airport, but if there was a reason they initially said no, then I'd stick with that...
 
FlySince9 said:
I'm not a doctor, and not sure what color vision has to do with night flying, except for all the pretty lights on the airport
Click to expand...

I asked that question once and was given two reason. First, being able to tell if a plane is headed toward or away from you by the wing tip lights and second, light signals from the tower in a NORDO situation.

Cheers
 
X3 Skier said:
I asked that question once and was given two reason. First, being able to tell if a plane is headed toward or away from you by the wing tip lights and second, light signals from the tower in a NORDO situation.

Cheers
Click to expand...
yea...and also the pretty airport lighting... don't forget the pretty airport lighting...
 
The BasicMed doctor I used, Urgent Care clinic, used the color test he used for CDL (truck drivers.) It was a single 8.5x11 in sheet with 4 colored squares on it -- red, green, orange and blue.
 
gdwindowpane said:
I just recently went through BasicMed and have a few questions.

I went to my eye doctor to be tested for color blindness before going to an AME for my third class. Passed the color vision test, barely, but passed. Contacted the AME and scheduled my physical. Informed him that I had already gotten my vision screened and would provide him the report. He says don't bother, he needs to test regardless. I failed his test (given by one of his nurses). Eventually get my third class with day time only restriction. I didn't pursue other tests or the light test at a controlled airport.

Now qualified for BasicMed. Make another appointment with my eye doctor and get her to fill out a form 8500-7 to give to my PCP as I'm not sure he has the equipment for vision testing. Eye doctor asks me why there isn't any color vision reference on the form? Told her I didn't know. So we didn't test for it.

Give my PCP the 8500-7 and get the physical. He checks all the boxes and signs off. His first BasicMed.

So will I be allowed to fly at night? I'm still a student and haven't done any night flying yet.

Thanks!!!

Chris
Click to expand...


What test did you do with your your eye doc?
If it’s an FAA approved test, I believe you can send it in and get that restriction removed.

That said the ishara colored dot test is a horrible test, I’m not every good at it myself, check this out and see how you do. Funny, this isn’t a approved FAA test despite many eye docs telling me it far superior to the ishara
https://www.color-blindness.com/color-arrangement-test/
 
Here's what the CDL requires:

Color vision: The color vision requirement is met by the ability to recognize and distinguish among red, amber, and green, the standard colors of traffic control signals and devices. True color perception is not required.

BasicMed, in general, is LESS restrictive than CDL.
 
James331 said:
What test did you do with your your eye doc?
If it’s an FAA approved test, I believe you can send it in and get that restriction removed.
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Am I remembering correctly that the Farnsworth Lantern test is one of the best choices for the FAA's use?
 
AggieMike88 said:
Am I remembering correctly that the Farnsworth Lantern test is one of the best choices for the FAA's use?
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Never did it, it’s approved and seems to be the choice of people who don’t do well on the ishara dot nonsense.

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_or...am/ame/guide/app_process/exam_tech/item52/et/

“
Common Conditions and Course of Action
Equipment Test Edition Plates
Pseudoisochromatic plates Test book should be held 30" from applicant

Plates should be illuminated by at least 20� candles, preferably by a Macbeth Easel Lamp or a Verilux True Color Light (F15T8VLX)

Only three seconds are allowed for the applicant to interpret and respond to a given plate
American Optical Company [AOC] 1965 1-15
AOC-HRR 2nd 1-11
Richmond-HRR 4th 5-24
Dvorine 2nd 1-15
Ishihara 14 Plate 1-11
24 Plate 1-15
38 Plate 1-21
Richmond,
15-plates 1983 1-15
*Note to Agency-Designated ATCS AMEs Not all tests approved for pilots are acceptable for FAA ATCSs. Contact RFSfor current list.

Acceptable Substitutes: (May be used following the directions accompanying the instruments)
  • Farnsworth Lantern;
  • OPTEC 900 Color Vision Test;
  • Keystone Orthoscope;
  • Keystone Telebinocular;
  • OPTEC 2000 Vision Tester (Model Nos. 2000 PM, 2000 PAME, and 2000 PI) - tester MUST contain the 2000-010 FAR color perception PIP plate to be approved;
  • OPTEC 2500;
  • Titmus Vision Tester;
  • Titmus i400
Page last modified: February 11, 2015 3:21:44 PM EST“
 
Think about it. If you have a mild red color blindness, you may not be able to see the magenta line.
 
The color blindness test is to check to see if you can see Red, Yellow, Green, and White lights. In case of no radios the tower can signal you will a light gun. They should still be in your books on what the codes are, but Green is go, Red is stop. I am color blind and failed the test myself and was only good for daytime. I went to the FAA in Memphis (center close to me) and they pulled out a light gun. Went out into the parking lot and one guy operated the gun 1000' away and the other guy was with me. They flashed the colors and I told the guy what they were. I passed so they provided me with a letter stating that I passed and the standard color test was waved for me. Now I can fly at night (restriction removed) and not have to take the test ever again. Just show the letter.
 
If I would have remained under the class 3 medical I certainly would have done the light gun test but I went BasicMed. Under BasicMed can I take various tests until I pass or if I don't pass any, take the light gun test? Is the light gun test still a permanent pass/fail situation? Taking it at night still a last resort option?
 
Stewartb said:
I don't recall a color test during my BM exam. A vision chart, tes.
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As we were doing the vision chart, the nurse asked if I could identify the colored bands above and below certain lines. They were red and green and identified correctly.
 
If you take the FAA light gun test and screw it up, you are forever branded, as in that limitation is forever.

gdwindowpane said:
I don't think that test would be one of the ones listed by James331... lol.
Click to expand...

Shhhh
 
gdwindowpane said:
I don't think that test would be one of the ones listed by James331... lol.
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nope.... but since the place I went to is so used to doing school, camp, and DOT physicals, the nurse was likely following routine.
 
Stewartb said:
I don't recall a color test during my BM exam. A vision chart, tes.
Click to expand...
#20 on the physician's checklist (Section 3 of the 8700-2) says
Vision:
(distant, near, and intermediate vision, field of vision, color vision, and ocular alignment)
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So yes, he is really supposed to give you some kind of color vision test. My exam was done by an AME, so he had the Ishihara plates.

Whether the OP can fly at night under BasicMed after flunking a 3rd class color vision test is really a question for Dr. Bruce.
 
azure said:
Whether the OP can fly at night under BasicMed after flunking a 3rd class color vision test is really a question for Dr. Bruce.
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However I did pass the Ishihara plate test at my eye doctors, given under the correct environment, etc.
 
gdwindowpane said:
However I did pass the Ishihara plate test at my eye doctors, given under the correct environment, etc.
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Yes, but your BM signing physician is supposed to test you as well. Did your ophtho give you a report to present at your BM exam? It *might* be enough if your doctor checked the vision tested based on that, including color vision, on the 8700-2.

As I said, this is tricky. I would wait for Bruce's answer here and not trust SGOTI.
 
I "just barely" pass the color dot test (red-green for me, as well). Was the original test administered under daylight or did the nurse phone it in and do it under the fluorescent office lighting? Makes a big difference for me.

Not sure of any other implications - I don’t remenber taking a color test at my last medical (2nd class).
 
azure said:
#20 on the physician's checklist (Section 3 of the 8700-2) says

So yes, he is really supposed to give you some kind of color vision test. My exam was done by an AME, so he had the Ishihara plates.
Click to expand...

My Basicmed doc is my long time AME. Like I said, I don't recall. Maybe he should add a memory test?
 
I thought BasicMed was a pass/fail. Your doctor either signs you off or they don't. They don't sign you off with limitations like a 3rd class. Anything that may come up as a concern during a BasicMed exam should be discussed with the doc and it is up to you to self certify for every flight until the next exam is due.
 
X3 Skier said:
I asked that question once and was given two reason. First, being able to tell if a plane is headed toward or away from you by the wing tip lights and second, light signals from the tower in a NORDO situation.

Cheers
Click to expand...

...and perhaps the green and white rotating beacon useful for airport location identification???
 
gdwindowpane said:
So will I be allowed to fly at night? I'm still a student and haven't done any night flying yet.
Click to expand...
My non-expert guess is that it will depend on whether there is a night-flying restriction on your pilot certificate.
 
gdwindowpane said:
However I did pass the Ishihara plate test at my eye doctors, given under the correct environment, etc.
Click to expand...

Not sure if the limitations of your last medical carry over, but you should send that in to the FAA and have the restriction removed.
 
I am red/green colorblind and cannot distinguish airport beacons (the green looks the same as the white) or magenta lines on sectional charts. I flunked the color dot test but passed when asked to point to color squares on the chart. I restricted myself from flying at night but now have much bigger health issues that keep me grounded. Oh well...
 
James331 said:
If you take the FAA light gun test and screw it up, you are forever branded, as in that limitation is forever. Shhhh
Click to expand...
not quite right. If basic med is your “out”, all that failure means is that you fly under basic med where the color restriction isn’t limiting (as there is no color restriction under basic med). If you fail twice, your 3rd class is “branded”...but just don’t do that twice. Then even if you fail twice, it’s not like your cert got denied, you still have one, with the limitation. So you fly at night on your basic med...what’s the big deal....
 
bbchien said:
not quite right. If basic med is your “out”, all that failure means is that you fly under basic med where the color restriction isn’t limiting (as there is no color restriction under basic med). If you fail twice, your 3rd class is “branded”...but just don’t do that twice. Then even if you fail twice, it’s not like your cert got denied, you still have one, with the limitation. So you fly at night on your basic med...what’s the big deal....
Click to expand...

I don’t know much about the basic med, but if he already passed the ishara with a eye doc why not send those results in if they aren’t too old?
 
My AME accepts the test from another doc. I would probably look at a new AME. But admittedly i know zero about basic med.
 
bbchien said:
not quite right. If basic med is your “out”, all that failure means is that you fly under basic med where the color restriction isn’t limiting (as there is no color restriction under basic med). If you fail twice, your 3rd class is “branded”...but just don’t do that twice. Then even if you fail twice, it’s not like your cert got denied, you still have one, with the limitation. So you fly at night on your basic med...what’s the big deal....
Click to expand...
Good to hear the failure doesn't affect his BasicMed privileges. :thumbsup:
 
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