Bashing instructors

[ronnieh]

Morne, I am truly sorry you saw the discussion, Wayne, Dan and I had as bashing instructors. If you will read our discussion it was about recurrent or ongoing instruction. It was about how to keep the pilots that had their certificates alive. I don't think anyone in that discussion implied that a freshly minted instructor was not qualified to give primary instruction. From a technical standpoint it is not that hard. That however was not the discussion.
The question being discussed is does that newely minted instructor with only 300 TT have the experience, knowledge, and judgement to help the problem that was being discussed. My oppinion is he does not. Some instructors in that catagory know they don't, and do not attempt that as you heard some say. Unfortunately some do. The young guns who are useing the CFI to build hours and have no expectation of continuing instructing were the ones being discussed.
This is not entirely the fault of the instructor or even the fault of the pilot using the CFI as a stepping stone. What is a new commercial pilot to do to get the experience needed to get a job? There is no program I am aware of other than the CFI route. The ONLY paying job I know of for these people is instructing. You can not get a job anywhere with less than 600 hours and the minimum pratical is 1200 TT with a couple hundred in ME. The latter puts you barely at entry level flying freight in a C207.
Now, why can't a new IR, commercial pilot with 300 TT get a job? Simply put, they don't know enough about flying to do the job. So what do many do? They fly around the pattern with primary students getting up their hour total waiting for the first job offer. The sad part is they are learning very little during this time but are increasing hours. These instructors IMO are not capable of providing the services that Dan, Wayne, and myself were discussing. They do not possess the knowledge to teach a pilot that is moving up to a Bonanza or maybe a T210 what that pilot needs to know to operate one of these aircraft safely. Nor do they have the knowledge to work with an existing low time owner that wants to know how to operate the more advanced aircraft. Thus my remark "you can not teach what you do not know". Why did Ted say he would not give instruction in a Turbine aircraft? He is a MEI, the FAA says he is qualified. Heck what better and cheaper way for him to get turbine time? The discussion was all about what to do about the accident rate during the fist 500 hours or so when pilots are moving up in aircraft complexity and stretching their "wings" encountering things not taught in primary instruction. One thought was putting restrictions on what instructors can teach based on their actual qualifications. This was just an idea, not a suggestion. Stating that a fresh instructor with 300TT does not know much about flying is not bashing. It is a simple statement of fact.
Morne, I do not expect the student or fresh PP to understand this. There is no frame of reference. It is like,"wow, he is an instructor, he must know everything about flying". He may know everything about flying but, it is not because he is an instructor.
It appears many, like myself, were able to find instructors that love to instruct, take their responsibility seriously, and it had nothing to do with age and everything to do with motive.
Morne, as you advance in experience and ratings the shine will begin to fade from some of the instructors. My hat is off to ANY instructor, regardless of age that continues with primary instruction out of a sense of pride, and geneuine concern for the quality of instruction given. I hope this will shed a little light on what was being discussed. And I wish you the best of luck as you continue your flying education.

 

[HPNPilot1200]

Ronnie,

I have quoted various parts of your previous post to clearly articulate my thoughts and do not intend to sound like I'm arguing with or attacking you or your ideas.

The young guns who are useing the CFI to build hours and have no expectation of continuing instructing were the ones being discussed.

I am instructing to build time but more importantly to learn from teaching. I put in a lot of effort, strive to provide the highest quality training, and take the position and associated responsibilities very seriously.

The sad part is they are learning very little during this time but are increasing hours.

I respectfully disagree. I have learned more in the last 200 hours of dual instruction given to students than I ever have throughout my flying career (except for my B727 sim training perhaps). I have had primary students do some downright scary things to me in an airplane. I am so forever thankful that I successfully recovered from their mistakes and learned form them.

They do not possess the knowledge to teach a pilot that is moving up to a Bonanza or maybe a T210 what that pilot needs to know to operate one of these aircraft safely. Nor do they have the knowledge to work with an existing low time owner that wants to know how to operate the more advanced aircraft.

I have a lot of time in an A36 Bonanza and a turbocharged Mooney 231. Most of my Mooney time is in hard IMC and in NY airspace where a lot is going on at any given time. Am I not qualified to teach low time pilots to upgrade to a high performance aircraft? I completed my instrument, CFI, and CFII checkrides in the Mooney. I think the generalization you mentioned may be true of some low time CFIs but not all.

Perhaps I am the exception but I started out instructing at 350TT. I didn't know everything back then and I still don't. I don't sign people off without giving them the requisite training and ensuring their proficiency, I take pride in the training I provide, and I try to relate everything I teach to a real world scenario. I have seen many many instructors with thousands of hours that do not follow these values and I think it is somewhat unfair to generalize low time CFIs into one category. One size doesn't fit all. Like I said, maybe I'm the exception. I work with many young low time CFIs where I work and while a few of them may fall into the category you mention, most do not.

 

[ronnieh]

Yes Jason you would be an exception. I said my hat is off to any instructor regardless of age that is doing a good job. However, do one thing for me. Look back when you have 2000 hours and see if your oppinion of what you know now is different. I speak from experience. I have been right where you are. In fact my commercial and CFI were taken in a M20K. As far as your qualifications, I do not know if you are qualified to help a pilot learn how to deal with ice or perhaps pick his way through a line of thunderstorms in a high performance plane or not. I most definately woud not have been. The only place we seem to disagree is I would consider you the exception. Some would say all instructors should have the same experience levels but, they don't and never will. I do not believe it is realistic to even expect a 350 hour instructor to have the same level of expertise as an instructor that has 3500 hours in the freight business flying piston engine planes. Should there be a way of seperating those into distinct groups? I don't know. Would the freight pilot be a better instructor? Might not be. Depends on the knowledge being sought. If I am a 500 hour IR pilot having just bought a T210 with boots and radar, I will go with the freight pilot to teach me some things he thinks I might need to know rather than the 350 hour instructor. The freight pilot might suck at primary instruction. The point of the previous thread is different needs MIGHT require different instructors. We were talking about the needs of the post primary student.
Lastly, I never suggested a new instructor can not teach at the same level as his experience only that you can not teach at a level higher than that. Some pilots have more experience at 500 hours than others do at 1500 hours. Many here want to only hear that I am bashing young instructors. I am NOT. I am suggesting that instructors have different levels of expertise and experience plays a part.
But, if all ya'll want to hear is that I am bashing low time instructors, so be it. It really does not matter.

 

[wabower]

At least in my case, Dirty Harry was right when he said "a man needs to know his limitations." A guy recently asked me if I could "finish him up for his PPL" if his instructor's pending health issues took him out of the game.

While there's no doubt I'm qualified and could probably pull it off, there's also no doubt that almost anybody who's instructing regularly in his area and knows the DPE's preferences and idiosyncrasies, airspace tricks and other stuff would be a better choice. I haven't had a sectional open more than a half-dozen times since 1973, and most of those were for use as a sun-shade.

I suggested that my contribution to the effort might be better suited to help him deal with some specific issues that had him scratching his head, and maybe formulating some slightly different thought processes to skin the same cat. We did, it worked, and his current instructor was able to resume his flying and do the prep and sign-off. Perfect ending.

 

[DavidWhite]

I've had (flown with) 5 instructors. 2 of them were under 30, 2 of them were between 30 and 45 and the fifth is about 70. I could learn better from the younger guys because while the older guy had a wealth of knowledge, the younger guys could put things into terms I could understand better. YMMV

 

[Old Geek]

I've had 3 instructors. The worst was the one trying to make a living at it. The best was doing it gratis because he loved instructing, airplanes and flying. He's also a captain for Southwest and doesn't need the money. I am exceedingly thankful that he took me on as a student.

 

[Jeanie]

I've had a lot of different instructors of various ages and experience levels. A couple of old guys with lots of experience but a little tired and one burned out weren't so great. A young one was pretty good... Anyway, it just depends. Some care and are competent and will admit when they don't know something and refer you to a more apropos CFI for what you need to learn.
I am a 850hr TT first year CFI and I am doing OK with my students. I have a good friend who taught for years and cares a lot and has helped me as a mentor! That has been like gold. I have a student who wants to buy a A36 when he finishes his PP in my 152. He wants me to fly with him for 50-100 hrs in it.(he's a doctor).. I know I'm not qualified and have discussed it with my mentor friend. We are formulating a plan.
Anyway, I think it's fair to generalize that low time "professional pilot school" CFIs without much real world flying are not as qualified to teach higher level flying. I imagine some take it seriously and study like crazy to try to provide the best they can and some don't. That's life.
If your CFI isn't providing what you need then change. It's your time and money. Of course that presumes that you know what you need and early on you don't.

I am 55 yrs. old by the way in 2 weeks.

 

[HPNPilot1200]

As far as your qualifications, I do not know if you are qualified to help a pilot learn how to deal with ice or perhaps pick his way through a line of thunderstorms in a high performance plane or not.

No, I'm not. I know that and will kindly decline the opportunity to instruct someone who wants to gain experience in that type of flying until a time at which I am more experienced in those operations.

Lastly, I never suggested a new instructor can not teach at the same level as his experience only that you can not teach at a level higher than that.

I agree.

But, if all ya'll want to hear is that I am bashing low time instructors, so be it. It really does not matter.

I don't think you're bashing low time instructors but I thought I would still share my opinion on the topic.

 

[RotorAndWing]

 

[ronnieh]

My appologies, Jason. I misunderstood you.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Morne, I do not expect the student or fresh PP to understand this. There is no frame of reference. It is like,"wow, he is an instructor, he must know everything about flying".

Since I don't think Chip is around any more to relate this story, I'll tell it as he told it to me:

He had a student who purchased a Cessna 180 and, knowing Chip had lots of tailwheel time and liking him as an instructor, asked Chip to go with him to pick the plane up and give him the instruction required by the insurance company. So, they traveled to where the plane was, finished up the paperwork, and took off. About 45 minutes into the flight, the student said to Chip, "So, how many hours do you have in the Cessna 180?"

Chip, without missing a beat, looks down at his watch and says "Oh, about 0.8 now."

But, I think it's pretty common for students to think that CFI's know everything... Then after another 500 hours or so, you realize that you still know nothing, and that your CFI didn't either.

 

[ronnieh]

I wrote a book and you said the same thing in one short story. Well put!!

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I am instructing to build time but more importantly to learn from teaching. I put in a lot of effort, strive to provide the highest quality training, and take the position and associated responsibilities very seriously.

And THAT is what makes a good instructor.

My primary CFI was a young (22 or 23 at the time I think), somewhat-inexperienced 600-hour time builder who wanted to work for the airlines - Basically, everything that people tell you to avoid. But he also had the desire to be a really good instructor, and he was. Really good pilot, too - Now, only 8 years later he's flying 767's internationally for a major airline.

A great instructor was probably pretty darn good at 500 hours. Someone who's a crappy instructor at 500 hours will probably be a crappy instructor at 5,000 hours.

 

[HPNPilot1200]

A great instructor was probably pretty darn good at 500 hours. Someone who's a crappy instructor at 500 hours will probably be a crappy instructor at 5,000 hours.

+1

Where's Bruce's avatar? Oh here it is...

 

[dmspilot]

A great instructor was probably pretty darn good at 500 hours. Someone who's a crappy instructor at 500 hours will probably be a crappy instructor at 5,000 hours.

I really like that analogy.

 

[RotorAndWing]

A great instructor was probably pretty darn good at 500 hours. Someone who's a crappy instructor at 500 hours will probably be a crappy instructor at 5,000 hours.

I really like that analogy.

Yep.

 

[denverpilot]

Instructors are awesome. 'Nuff said.

 

[Morne]

@OP - I am glad I saw the discussion. Frankly, having only experienced high-time/60+ year old CFIs I had no clue as to how the young/aspiring-jet-jock CFI model worked. From your description, it seemed like I had been very fortunate.

I dig what has been said here, that TT isn't everything. Also that teaching primary and being a "wise old mentor" are two very different things. Something tells me that Wayne would make an excellent "mentor" but perhaps not the ideal primary teacher.

I also dig that age isn't everything. Good instructors come in all flavors. I reckon bad ones do, too.

I guess my point is that I'd rather be taught by someone who wants to teach me, not by someone who is marking time until they get hired for a glory-job. Everyone who has sat in my right seat and pontificated has LOVED both flying and teaching. I just wish everyone else were as lucky.

Merry Christmas!

 

[wabower]

My first few primary students worked out well, but I quickly learned that the hidden cost flight instruction is the seemingly interminable delays for weather, mechanical, student conflicts, etc. that are inherent part of the drill. I simply didn't have time to screw with it, and couldn't afford to sit around half a day waiting for the weather to clear off sufficiently to do airwork or whatever was on the schedule. So I pulled back from that routine and kinda fell into the hired-gun trouble-shooter role that has stuck for 30+ years.

I dig what has been said here, that TT isn't everything. Also that teaching primary and being a "wise old mentor" are two very different things. Something tells me that Wayne would make an excellent "mentor" but perhaps not the ideal primary teacher.


Merry Christmas!

 

[p1l0t]

My first few primary students worked out well, but I quickly learned that the hidden cost flight instruction is the seemingly interminable delays for weather, mechanical, student conflicts, etc. that are inherent part of the drill. I simply didn't have time to screw with it, and couldn't afford to sit around half a day waiting for the weather to clear off sufficiently to do airwork or whatever was on the schedule. So I pulled back from that routine and kinda fell into the hired-gun trouble-shooter role that has stuck for 30+ years.

Hehe I get a bunch of commercial students that just want to work on the maneuvers and primarys that want to LEARN how to land. It is kind of jab that they flew with some crackpot instructor for most of the time and they just want me to fix it. Alas, its flattering enough and I can't stand seeing people doing it wrong that I always take those. Plus they rarely go back except maybe to collect the signature so that doesn't bother me [not that by the time I am done with them I wouldn't sign for them]. Anyway on the earlier part of thread [not that hours means as much as we tend to think unless they were applied correctly] I have 1100TT and I would never hop into a Bonanza or a Cirrus or anything else I am legal for but only have 2 hours of flight time in. If you want Mooney or Arrow training though, I know these airplanes. But like was mentioned earlier, if an instructor was willing to 'teach' something they don't understand at 300TT they will still do it at 3000TT.

<---<^>--->

 

[Everskyward]

At least in my case, Dirty Harry was right when he said "a man needs to know his limitations."

So do women.

You can't teach something that you don't know or can't remember, or only vaguely remember.

That's why I don't think experience, in general, counts nearly as much a recent, relevant experience. For that reason I think that a lower time CFI who has gotten his or her private 5 years ago as opposed to 25 years ago might be better at teaching a primary student, that is unless the old fart has kept up his or her skills teaching in small airplanes. There are also obviously some people who are better teachers than others regardless of their pilot skills, total hours or age.

 

[ebetancourt]

This discussion has a lot in common with the one elsewhere about why pilots continue to kill themselves using the same stupid tricks.

Instructors are people/pilots with all the same problems. The last two airplane checkouts I have had have been from high time pilots. Both met the requirements of the insurance company, so I got what I paid for. Neither was even close to what an airplane checkout should be. If you have no time in a particular airplane type, and are unwilling to invest the time to learn that type well, you shouldn't convince yourself you can check someone out in it. Sorry, lot's of time 135 in a Navajo does not provide you the background to check someone out in a turbo Mooney. More recently, for a checkout in a Waco my instructor got twice around the pattern with someone who had flown it and then gave me a one hour checkout. Yeah, right.

There are too many stories about CFIs afraid of spins, stalls, or even steep turns to allow me to believe that just because someone is a CFI they are competent, regardless of hours logged. And those are just basics. Checking out in high performance airplanes? Only if they are truly willing to learn systems, flying characteristics, avionics, etc. of that specific airplane or type.

 

[ronnieh]

Just a clarification for those that may have not read the entire thread. This thread was started in response to Morne's assertion I was bashing low time instructors in a thread he started and Wayne, Dan and I hijacked.
Wayne, Dan and I began discussing what might need to be done to lower the accident rate of pilots with 500 -1000 hours. It had NOTHING to do with primary instruction. It had nothing to do with the quality of primary instruction. The premise was does there need to be something, perhaps like the SFAR for MU2 pilots? In this example a certain level of expertise is required of the instructor and a certain level of experience is required for the pilot. This is one example of what was being discussed.
It has morphed into a conversation on primary instruction. That is a good and valid discussion. In the vein of that discussion I will now make a few comments on that topic. In the interest of full disclosure I no longer give any instruction primary or otherwise. Like Wayne I tired very quickly of primary instruction, did a little advanced instruction and then dropped it altogether.
Any instructor should have the technical skills to teach a person to pass the PTS. This is not a swipe at any class of instructors it is just a fact, it takes little knowledge to pass the PTS. IMO, it would be more important how well the instructor teaches. Some people are just better teachers than others whether teaching flying or how to make a quilt.
In this scenerio it would make little difference if the instructor had 300 hours or 30,000 hours. His attitude and ability to teach would be much more important and would have little to do with flight hours or age. So again I am not bashing young (in hours) flight instructors.
Lets move up a step. Take the new instrument student. The instructor's goal is to teach the pilot how to fly the plane useing only instruments to manuver the plane. He also must teach the student how to read the let down charts (approach plates for most of us), enroute charts and how to gather weather information. There will be some FAR's thrown in. That is all that is required. The instructor is not required to teach the pilot how to fly in weather. There is no requirement implied nor expressed for the new IR pilot to be able to fly in weather. Also there is no requirement for the instructor to be able to fly in weather.
So again, whether a CFII has 300 hours or 30,000 hours is of little concern. The CFII again needs only the technical skills to teach this. This would require more knowledge than primary but, certainly does not require 5000TT with 500 hours actual. In fact the 400 hour CFII with a natural nack for instructing, the ability to transfer information, who is particularly good at demonstrating things, has a good technical understanding of pertinent FAR's may be much better at instructing than the 5000 hour freight pilot. Again no bash at any instructor.
However, there comes a time when many pilots want to do more. There comes a time for many when they want to load the family up in the T210 they bought 3 months ago and go see the grandparents. This is where the problem starts. Where does the pilot go to learn how to use the radar, how to operate the boots. How does the plane feel with a load of ice, what kind of area of thunderstorms can I expect to be able to get through, how much ice can I safely carry, how do I get out of the ice, what back up equipment should I invest in. In short, I have the ratings, I have the plane, now how do I learn how to use them?
Jason says (I am not picking on Jason) most of his Mooney time is in "hard IFR". Not sure of his definition of hard IFR is but for me if it did not include ice and thunderstorms with an approach to minimums it would be just another ho hum day for many.
So back to the guy in the 210. You want him to grab his 400 hour CFII who BTW is a great instructor, who prepared the pilot very well for his check ride, the one the DPE bragged on, and get him to take a couple cross country trips with him and teach him how to fly weather or perhaps he would be better off with the 5000 hour freight pilot who is not the best teacher around, maybe a little rusty on the FAR's but, has slugged it out night after night in worse weather than the CFII has even seen from the ground.
All Wayne, Dan, and myself ever said is in the real world of aviation experience does count. Is there a way to transfer this experience? And BTW, Ted has shown you do not have to have 5000TT to have valid experience worth sharing.
Oh, and Everskyward, if you can't remember it, then you don't know it.
I am now putting my soap box back into storage.
Oh, and Merry Christmas!!

 

[HPNPilot1200]

Jason says (I am not picking on Jason) most of his Mooney time is in "hard IFR". Not sure of his definition of hard IFR is but for me if it did not include ice and thunderstorms with an approach to minimums it would be just another ho hum day for many.

Since the Mooney I fly is not equipped or certified for flight into known icing, I do not operate in those conditions. So I can't include "ice" in my definition of "hard IFR" in the Mooney. Find me on a day where I'm in the PC12, CJ3, or Phenom 100 and that's a different story. We are equipped much better to handle icing and convective scenarios in those airplanes.

I have flown around thunderstorms, flown approaches to mins, and had to go missed on a number of occasions and shoot an approach at an alternate. I consider that to be "hard IFR." I wholeheartedly agree with you that many CFI's can teach the PTS. I try to go above and beyond the PTS and teach various scenarios that you will encounter while flying either in good weather or bad. I think it's silly to sign someone off for an instrument rating without giving solid instruction in IMC. To that end, I think it is a disservice to the student to deprive them of actual before their instrument ticket or to launch in the soup when the instructor him/herself only has a few hours in the clouds.

 

[Ted]

And BTW, Ted has shown you do not have to have 5000TT to have valid experience worth sharing.

Well, all I've done is taken a few coins out of my luck bucket in the pursuit of adding to my experience bucket.

But, I'm also not a good instructor for someone looking for primary instruction. While I'll do it, I can think of a number of other instructors who are better, much like Wayne's point.

When people come to me for instrument instruction, multi-engine instruction, or especially looking for instruction in dealing with ice and thunderstorms... yes, those are the areas I can be of better use.

Then if someone comes to me wanting instruction in a turbine, well, I'm not really going to be much use again. But I am starting to get more interested. I know, Wayne, didn't take long.

 

[Everskyward]

Oh, and Everskyward, if you can't remember it, then you don't know it.

In case you missed it, that's why I wouldn't attempt to give someone initial instruction for their private at this point. In fact other than giving random pointers I wouldn't attempt to give anyone instruction in a small airplane.

 

[Ted]

In case you missed it, that's why I wouldn't attempt to give someone initial instruction for their private at this point. In fact other than giving random pointers I wouldn't attempt to give anyone instruction in a small airplane.

Once you fly a twin Cessna, everything else just has a simple fuel system.

 

[Everskyward]

Once you fly a twin Cessna, everything else just has a simple fuel system.

This twin Cessna has the simplest fuel system ever. The only thing you can do with it is crossfeed.

 

[wabower]

A tip-tank STC'd turbo 35 Bo might be worse.

Once you fly a twin Cessna, everything else just has a simple fuel system.

 

[Ted]

This twin Cessna has the simplest fuel system ever. The only thing you can do with it is crossfeed.

The Commander is even simpler - all fuel drains into one sump, and goes to both engines from there. Fuel is on unless you hit the emergency shut-off.

A tip-tank STC'd turbo 35 Bo might be worse.

Never flown one, what makes it unique?

 

[taters]

T

Never flown one, what makes it unique?

Bonanza Tip tanks
You have to burn the mains down to 3/4 then turn on the transfer pumps to refill the main tanks from the tips.When you switch between the main tanks you have to make sure the main not in use does not overfill... once the tips are empty fuel management is normal from there (just remember to turn the pumps off!)


you can get yourself into a situation where the fuel cannot transfer fast enough to overcome your burn, so don't wait to long to start the transfer pumps.

 

[p1l0t]

Wow see that's a good reason to know your aircraft inside and out.


<---<^>--->

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

What is a new commercial pilot to do to get the experience needed to get a job? There is no program I am aware of other than the CFI route. The ONLY paying job I know of for these people is instructing. You can not get a job anywhere with less than 600 hours and the minimum pratical is 1200 TT with a couple hundred in ME. The latter puts you barely at entry level flying freight in a C207.

I just wanted to point out some inaccuracies in this portion of your original post. There are jobs out there right now that require far less than 1200TT. In fact, there are some part 121 jobs out there that are advertising 250TT. And plenty of other non instructing jobs out there at far less than 500TT. At 500TT, you've opened up a bunch of VFR 135 opportunity. Heck, I even managed to get a job at 350TT last spring, which was not a good pilot job market at all.

I got my CFI and CFII certificates, but really had no desire to teach, except for limited areas. As such, I tried my best not to get into a full time CFI job, which I managed to not do. I've done about 15 hours of dual in airplanes, all of it instrument instruction.

 

[p1l0t]

Up here in the Northeast it is IFR everyother day and can turn from VFR to IFR in a couple of hours so not too many 135 ops are going to hire with less than 1200. You can find jobs banner towing and carrying skydivers if you network enough but other than that CFI is your best bet. I suppose you COULD get a FO position for a 121 for 25k/yr

<---<^>--->

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

Up here in the Northeast it is IFR everyother day and can turn from VFR to IFR in a couple of hours so not too many 135 ops are going to hire with less than 1200. You can find jobs banner towing and carrying skydivers if you network enough but other than that CFI is your best bet. I suppose you COULD get a FO position for a 121 for 25k/yr

<---<^>--->

No doubt. If one wants a job at 500 hour or less, one has to be willing to move anywhere and everywhere and not be picky about what you are doing beyond flying.

My number one reason for not wanting to teach was getting a primary student. I really feel that primary students are the ones who should be getting the more senior, experienced instructors and the newer instructors should be teaching the more advanced stuff, such as commercial maneuvers and instrument stuff.

 

[ronnieh]

P1lot, you too must be wrong. KSC says "there are plenty of non instructing jobs at less than 500 hours". Appears to be plenty of openings for air carrier at 250 hours. KSC, when you get time maybe you could post or link some of these. I have a couple of friends been looking for anything for over a year. They have way over 500 hours so they should be a shoo-in. I know they will appreciate the help. In the southeast would be great but, I susoect anything in the eastern half of the US would be considered.

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

P1lot, you too must be wrong. KSC says "there are plenty of non instructing jobs at less than 500 hours". Appears to be plenty of openings for air carrier at 250 hours. KSC, when you get time maybe you could post or link some of these. I have a couple of friends been looking for anything for over a year. They have way over 500 hours so they should be a shoo-in. I know they will appreciate the help. In the southeast would be great but, I susoect anything in the eastern half of the US would be considered.

Its not about hours for many of them, its about who you know. Look at Gulfstream International/Silver Airways. They are hiring right now at an advertised 250 hours.

 

[murphey]

This twin Cessna has the simplest fuel system ever. The only thing you can do with it is crossfeed.

Probably the most challenging aspect of flying the twin Cessna is uploading the new database into the FMS.

 

[HPNPilot1200]

Its not about hours for many of them, its about who you know. Look at Gulfstream International/Silver Airways. They are hiring right now at an advertised 250 hours.

Is that the place where you have pay to get hired/fly?

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

Is that the place where you have pay to get hired/fly?

Used to be that way, AFAIK. They went through chapter 11, with new owners and dumped the program. I believe they may even be hiring street captains right now. Saab 340's