Baron Thomas charged with fraud

[weilke]

Well, that was quite the interesting read to be certain.

Kinda makes Barron pretty much look like a crook and his "investors" out to be complete morons. PT Barnum was a prophet....

Ah, this is all just a big misunderstanding, you know, people who misunderstood their account statements and stuff...

 

[DoubtingThomas]

So you want a prospectus?

You got one?

I'm confused in your earlier post you complained about he lowballed and ignored you on a plane you were selling and ignored when you inquired about purchasing a plane.
Were you really an investor who feels unfairly treated?

Nope, not an investor (thankfully). It's not too complex, two separate posts.

If he claims every investor received a better than the "stock market" return for the last 10 year. Would you want names or respect the investors privacy, like you claim you need with the anonymous account and no details?

Your use of hyperbole is noise. Barron Thomas placed lots of ads seeking investors, was just curious how the track record has been. But I suppose if the ROI had measured up, we'd have been told that already. Regardless, it's a simple question, either he'll provide info or he won't...but I'm sure he appreciates you sticking up for him.

Sorry but if you're too shy to introduce yourself I think you're hiding the pertinent facts and should be ignored.

One man's shyness is another's discretion. I didn't record my conversation with BTA, so you can believe me or not. But if I announced my identity, and you subsequently realized you didn't know me from Adam, my statement and questions would somehow be more relevant to you? Nonsense. Please commence your ignoring of me.

 

[JeffDG]

Barron,

Are you willing to answer my previous question??

"...what is the average ROI your investors have received?"

Of course some definitive evidence to support your claim would be appreciated.

Not likely. He doesn't have "investors", see...never registered as a seller of securities, so of course he could not offer for sale any such securities to the general public.

Anything he told you about "investors" here would be detrimental to the above linked cause of action, so unless he's a complete and utter:

 

[gmwalk]

Ponzi, Madoff & Associates LLP ?

All I can say is: "Better Call Saul!"

http://www.bettercallsaul.com/

 

[jhausch]

I've been waiting for updates here. It sounds like this is moving forward in AZ. Anyone have any local knowlege/updates?

 

[DoubtingThomas]

Re: Barron Thomas charged with fraud

Hearing, Thurs. 29 April

Summary below:​

THUR. APR. 29
9:30 a.m. Phoenix – Securities – Room 100 – Stern
S-20720A-10-0001 – Barron Wilson Thomas et al. (Notice of Opportunity)​

(Pre-hearing Conference)

HEARINGS ARE SUBJECT TO POSSIBLE CANCELLATION WITHOUT FURTHER NOTICE TO NONPARTIES. INTERESTED PARTIES SHOULD CHECK WITH THE HEARING DIVISION (602-542-4250) PRIOR TO ATTENDING ANY MATTER SCHEDULED​

 

[COFlyBoy]

Check out this deal from BT.

http://www.barnstormers.com/ad_detail.php?ID=419992

 

[Bob Noel]

Check out this deal from BT.

http://www.barnstormers.com/ad_detail.php?ID=419992

dumb question: How could that be a flight school special? Ordinarily
I wouldn't expect a flight school to go beyond TBO. Or is that targeted to
flight schools?

 

[weilke]

dumb question: How could that be a flight school special? Ordinarily
I wouldn't expect a flight school to go beyond TBO. Or is that targeted to
flight schools?

Why wouldn't they ? That's when the plane actually starts to make money.

 

[Unbeliever]

Check out this deal from BT.

http://www.barnstormers.com/ad_detail.php?ID=419992

The avionics don't match the pictures.

I see a GTX-320A, not a GTX-327 as listed.

I don't see a GX-50 as listed, but I do see an SL-30.

Actually, he lists a "UPS GL-50." What the heck is that? An Apollo SL-30 or a UPSAT GX-50? Since he says "GPS" I assume he means UPSAT GX-50. Still isn't in the panel picture.

--Carlos V.

 

[Trapper John]

The avionics don't match the pictures.

I see a GTX-320A, not a GTX-327 as listed.

I don't see a GX-50 as listed, but I do see an SL-30.

Actually, he lists a "UPS GL-50." What the heck is that? An Apollo SL-30 or a UPSAT GX-50? Since he says "GPS" I assume he means UPSAT GX-50. Still isn't in the panel picture.

--Carlos V.

You must have better eyes than me - all I could recognize were the old KX-170s.. Anyway, it's got lots of dials and switches for $25k. I don't have an ME rating, but I would suspect most ME training is done in pretty decent weather anyway, so the wonderfulness of the radio stack may not be that important to a school/FBO looking for an affordable ME trainer.

 

[Unbeliever]

You must have better eyes than me - all I could recognize were the old KX-170s..

GTX-320A, between the ramshorns on the co-pilot side.

SL-30, above the INOP ADF indicator and to the right of the audio panel. Looks like there's also a DB-9 above it for aviation in for the SL-30.

I would suspect most ME training is done in pretty decent weather anyway, so the wonderfulness of the radio stack may not be that important to a school/FBO looking for an affordable ME trainer.

But it is still a misrepresentation of the aircraft.

--Carlos V.

 

[Trapper John]

GTX-320A, between the ramshorns on the co-pilot side.

SL-30, above the INOP ADF indicator and to the right of the audio panel. Looks like there's also a DB-9 above it for aviation in for the SL-30.

Gotta give you the eagle eye award...I either need a big screen or lasik.

But it is still a misrepresentation of the aircraft.

--Carlos V.

I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, which he may or may not deserve. The paint was quoted as "5/5", too, which is an unusual metric, especially given the verbal description. Maybe just a hastily-posted ad...

I think that's why you see a lot of sales organizations/brokers have disclaimers at the bottom of their ads about "subject to verification" and that kind of stuff. In any case, how much can you make selling a $25k aircraft? Not too much, I'd think, and intentionally misrepresenting would carry more risk than reward..

 

[flyersfan31]

In fairness to BT, the listing is "paint/Interior" and "5/5".

I interpret that to mean Paint = 5, interior = 5

Can't figure out the avionics though. Maybe it's a stock picture?

Would you be money ahead if you didn't die in the first hour of flight?

 

[wabower]

Financial issues aside, your survival would nevertheless qualify as a statistical anomoly.

In fairness to BT, the listing is "paint/Interior" and "5/5".

I interpret that to mean Paint = 5, interior = 5

Can't figure out the avionics though. Maybe it's a stock picture?

Would you be money ahead if you didn't die in the first hour of flight?

 

[Ted]

dumb question: How could that be a flight school special? Ordinarily
I wouldn't expect a flight school to go beyond TBO. Or is that targeted to
flight schools?

No reason for a flight school to overhaul engines at TBO unless they need to be. Keep in mind that the smaller engines used in flight school aircraft seem to be very tolerant of the touch-and-gos, shutdowns, etc. that tend to happen in flight schools, especially if they're flown regularly. I flew in a flight school 172 with 3600 hours SMOH on the engine in it.

Now a 135 operation, yes, that will need to keep the engines fresh.

 

[Henning]

No reason for a flight school to overhaul engines at TBO unless they need to be. Keep in mind that the smaller engines used in flight school aircraft seem to be very tolerant of the touch-and-gos, shutdowns, etc. that tend to happen in flight schools, especially if they're flown regularly. I flew in a flight school 172 with 3600 hours SMOH on the engine in it.

Now a 135 operation, yes, that will need to keep the engines fresh.

IIRC, so does a 141 flight school.

 

[RotorAndWing]

IIRC, so does a 141 flight school.

TBO is not required for Part 141.

 

[wabower]

Or use an FAA-approved life-extension program such as MORE, etc. that extends TBO from 3,600 hours to 8,000 hours.

No reason for a flight school to overhaul engines at TBO unless they need to be. Keep in mind that the smaller engines used in flight school aircraft seem to be very tolerant of the touch-and-gos, shutdowns, etc. that tend to happen in flight schools, especially if they're flown regularly. I flew in a flight school 172 with 3600 hours SMOH on the engine in it.

Now a 135 operation, yes, that will need to keep the engines fresh.

 

[Ted]

Or use an FAA-approved life-extension program such as MORE, etc. that extends TBO from 3,600 hours to 8,000 hours.

True, forgot to mention that.

Although if I could get something that extended my TBO from 2,000 to 3,600 hours I'd be happy. If I could get 8,000 hours? That'd be great.

 

[wabower]

An often-overlooked fact when comparing costs of cabin-class twins to turbo-props. Part 91 operators aren't even required to enroll in the life extension programs.

True, forgot to mention that.

Although if I could get something that extended my TBO from 2,000 to 3,600 hours I'd be happy. If I could get 8,000 hours? That'd be great.

 

[Ted]

An often-overlooked fact when comparing costs of cabin-class twins to turbo-props. Part 91 operators aren't even required to enroll in the life extension programs.

Yeah, I knew that I didn't given the Part 91. I was thinking 135. I didn't know that Part 91 operators of turboprops needed to enroll in the life-extension programs.

 

[flyersfan31]

True, forgot to mention that.

Although if I could get something that extended my TBO from 2,000 to 3,600 hours I'd be happy. If I could get 8,000 hours? That'd be great.

That would be called a "turbine."

 

[Ted]

That would be called a "turbine."

See that big "DONATE" button at the bottom of my signature? You're free to put in however much you want.

 

[wabower]

They aren't, but many think it's a requirement.

Yeah, I knew that I didn't given the Part 91. I was thinking 135. I didn't know that Part 91 operators of turboprops needed to enroll in the life-extension programs.

 

[Barron Thomas]

Maurice:

You are wrong!

We post our privacy policy clearly on the internet for all to see.

I invited you down to come fly it and you declined.

Barron Thomas

 

[flyersfan31]

 

[timwinters]

Luckily, my attorney is better at defining that, and demonstrating that. As well as intent, etc.

For anyone that wants to research Internet Slander a bit further, may I direct you to: Erik Syverson, ESQ., of Los Angeles, California.

That's his specialty.

Thank you,

Barron Thomas

Now that would really serve to prop up your reputation in the aviation (ie very small) world.

 

[markb5900]

Luckily, my attorney is better at defining that, and demonstrating that. As well as intent, etc.

For anyone that wants to research Internet Slander a bit further, may I direct you to: Erik Syverson, ESQ., of Los Angeles, California.

That's his specialty.

Thank you,

Barron Thomas

So answer the question then.
Giving a name doesn't impress me much.

 

[Barron Thomas]

Now that would really serve to prop up your reputation in the aviation (ie very small) world.

Tim:

Aviation is a small world, I've been in it for 42 years.

I beleive in everyone helping each other.

And, if you have a legitimate beef, let's talk about it, and work it out.

But, if you are just dog-piling and making things up, or coming up with slanderous comments with no direct ( repeat: direct) facts, then it's an issue.

How would you like it if I came onto a web site or blog or forum involving YOUR line of work, and having never met you, or done any business with you, start saying trash about YOU??

Mmmm.

Barron Thomas



.

 

[Barron Thomas]

So answer the question then.
Giving a name doesn't impress me much.

Juries decide what the term means.

I doubt that any jury in California ( where Crash and Burn resides) would have any trouble whatsoever determining the meaning ( and intent) of the word.

Barron Thomas

 

[markb5900]

Juries decide what the term means.

I doubt that any jury in California ( where Crash and Burn resides) would have any trouble whatsoever determining the meaning ( and intent) of the word.

Barron Thomas

YOU are the one that said to ask your attorney, not me.
SO ask him!
Then give us the definition so we all will be enlightened.

BTW I never had a need to have an attorney, so I don't have one to ask. Depending on you for that.

 

[timwinters]

Tim:

But, if you are just dog-piling and making things up, or coming up with slanderous comments with no direct ( repeat: direct) facts, then it's an issue.

.

Sir, to say that I made slanderous comments when I made none is, well, slanderous (actually, it's libelous). Watch yourself, sir. We have dammed good attorneys in Missouri also.

 

[weilke]

If asked for a definition, I would point to AZ Corporation Commission docket# 0000107510 for guidance.

 

[weilke]

BTs response to the Corporation Commission allegations:


http://images.edocket.azcc.gov/docketpdf/0000112529.pdf


Some of it quite humorous, basically denying that the sun rises in the east in the morning.

As someone more familiar with securities law predicted earlier, the main defense is that these were all 'loans' and not 'securities' and that as such the corporation commission has no say.

Good Luck !!


(for reference, this is the amended charging document BT is responding to: http://images.edocket.azcc.gov/docketpdf/0000110561.pdf )

 

[flyersfan31]

...contain an incomplete, inaccurate and misleading statement of the facts, and are therefore denied

I'm going to have to use that on my kids. It's catchy.

 

[wbarnhill]

BTs response to the Corporation Commission allegations:


http://images.edocket.azcc.gov/docketpdf/0000112529.pdf


Some of it quite humorous, basically denying that the sun rises in the east in the morning.

As someone more familiar with securities law predicted earlier, the main defense is that these were all 'loans' and not 'securities' and that as such the corporation commission has no say.

Good Luck !!


(for reference, this is the amended charging document BT is responding to: http://images.edocket.azcc.gov/docketpdf/0000110561.pdf )

Wow. If only Mr. Thomas could help fill us in on the "incomplete, inaccurate and misleading statement of the facts".

 

[weilke]

Wow. If only Mr. Thomas could help fill us in on the "incomplete, inaccurate and misleading statement of the facts".

He is smart enough not to comment on the pending case.

I wonder how far his Bart Simpson defense* is going to get him. Looking at the charging document, the prosecutors seem to have a a number of pretty well documented cases of $20,000 worth of plane debris with $100,000 worth of securities issued against them.

He wants to have a trial by jury instead of the corporation commission administrative proceeding. He may want to be careful what he wishes for.



*I did not do it; no one saw me do it; and you cannot prove a thing.

 

[Palmpilot]

Is there a link to the terms of use on this board? I can't find one.

 

[ScottM]

Is there a link to the terms of use on this board? I can't find one.

Top of the page under the 2nd link from the left on the menu bar, titles FAQ. There you will find the Rules of Conduct and general forum usage guidelines.

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/faq.php