Baron 58 vs Cessna 310R 5-6 Adults?

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JC150

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JC150
I'm trying to help a friend find information regarding the 5th and 6th seats in either of these frames. I figured someone on here would have experience with both of these planes.

So here's the question: With both the Cessna 310R and Baron 58 with all 6 seats facing forward, which aircraft allows the passengers in the last row (seats 5 & 6) to have the most 'comfort' (elbow room and legroom)?

We sat in the back of a Baron 58 with club seating to try it out, 3 of us total, and it was really uncomfortable trying to interlace legs and get comfortable. I can't imagine putting 4 adults back there. So I was told forward facing is the only way to go. We couldn't find a Cessna 310 to try out, but a web search for Cessna 310 interior images showed a much wider interior and what appears to be more legroom between the last row and middle row seats compared to the Baron 58 in forward facing configuration; but that's why I'm asking here to confirm that.

His mission is to carry 4 adults plus himself (5 adults total) on 400-500 mile trips. I doubt you could fit 2 adults in the back row of either the 310 or baron 58 in a forward facing configuration unless I'm wrong?
 
In my opinion the baron and the 310R are suitable for four adults and two children max. I've had a smaller young woman scamper into the back row in the 310, and that was an effort. Usually I have my kids crawl through the baggage door. Imho, there is not room for 3-4 adults to sit comfortably in a club configuration.
 
James_Dean said:
In my opinion the baron and the 310R are suitable for four adults and two children max. I've had a smaller young woman scamper into the back row in the 310, and that was an effort. Usually I have my kids crawl through the baggage door. Imho, there is not room for 3-4 adults to sit comfortably in a club configuration.
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Six adults, unless the four in the back are members of the US women's gymnastics team, are not going to be comfortable in either airplane. If it's a once in a while thing, you can squeeze a couple SMALL women into the back of a 310, but 5th and 6th seats are designed for kids.
Honestly, for six adults to travel comfortably, I'd look at a 414/421 or a Navajo. Airplanes are like cars, you don't want to put 6 adults in a 6 passenger car!
 
Consider looking at a Cessna 340, their smallest cabin class twin. Six adults, no problem.

Aero Commander 500 may be another good option.
 
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I flew C310s (various models) Part 135 and as Eggman says, it's really a 4 place (adults) and possible to put 2 small children in the third seat. You might be able to squeeze 5 adults but I think that would be it. At least you're talking about the R model because prior model 310s are even worse for W&B. R model has the long nose with a baggage compartment up there which helps tremendously with W&B. Never flown a Baron but I would imagine similar problems trying to carry 6 adults.
 
If you are trying to haul 6 adults and you want legroom, you need a Beech 18.

I'm half serious. There really aren't too many piston airplanes with that kind of room.
 
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Here's a shot of the interior of a T310R I flew back in May to get an idea. The photo makes it look a little smaller than it is, but I agree with the above comments, having 4 adults would be snug. The two seats behind the pilot and co-pilot are rather roomy but the 5-6 seat are comparable to the 3rd row in an SUV.
 

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Navajo or Navajo Chieftain.
 
Ryanb said:
Here's a shot of the interior of a T310R I flew back in May to get an idea. The photo makes it look a little smaller than it is, but I agree with the above comments, having 4 adults would be snug. The two seats behind the pilot and co-pilot are rather roomy but the 5-6 seat are comparable to the 3rd row in an SUV.
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You can see my then 13 year old daughter a bit scrunched in back. Put the armrests down and it isn't horrible to get back there, but...

This 310R has nearly 1000lb useful with full fuel and I was using about all of it on this flight, but everyone was comfortable. IIRC, this was a four hour leg.
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Fearless Tower said:
Honest question: how do you get females to do 4 hour legs without a potty onboard?
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Genetics and salt. We give them a salty snack on the way to the airport. My wife and girls have no troubles going that long. We keep Gatorade bottles for the boys who generally can't go that long.
 
That's a perfect picture to put the interior to scale. Exactly what I was trying to find.

I got to sit in the baron again with all seats facing forward this time. The benefit I saw was the pilot's seat and middle row seats can now recline. But elbowroom and legroom is worse than sitting in economy. The 310's cabin appears to be 8 inches wider which my friend likes. The Baron is just too narrow.

Does the 310's 5th and 6th seats have more legroom than the Baron 58 in a forward facing configuration? The Baron's floor slopes downwards which helps with legroom, but the 310 looks flat?
 
image.jpeg The back is flat. To give an idea of shoulder space in the 310, my brother is on the left and is 6'5" and 290lbs.
 
303-Interior.jpg

Just purchased a Cessna Crusader T303. Great airplane! Not many around but a few show up from time to time.
 
Another great picture James! That's perfect. Thanks for the info.

Mirage, How does a T303 compare to say a Cessna 335?
 
It's a lighter built aircraft with an unpressurized cabin. Tube is slight smaller but not by much. Much lighter on the controls than the 340 but rock solid stable. Cruise is 170kts at 8000ft with 24x24 while burning 24gph. It has two IO550s derated engines that produce 250hp. Right engine turns counter clockwise. Short field performance is phenomenal. Trailing link gear that's approved for unpaved fields. Do some research, it's the only piston airplane ever wind tunnel tested by Cessna. Truly a diamond in the rough.
 
Out of curiosity, is it possible to go from the front seat of the baron to the rear cabin in a club configuration? It looks like there's some space to slide your legs but not nearly the kind of space the 310 seems to offer.
 
Not to get off topic, but the Cessna Stationair has an 8-seat option. Imagine how tiny those two extra seats must be...
 
Dave Theisen said:
6 seats, 7 people? Don't think I'd be posting that one on the Internet.
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I'm of the belief that if two of them combined are under 170lbs it is legal - all of them certainly flew as lap children on commercial flights in the past. One could make the argument that two in one belt compromises safety, but I judged the increase in risk to be minimal.

Having said that, I now fly something with seven seats.
 
mirage00 said:
It's a lighter built aircraft with an unpressurized cabin. Tube is slight smaller but not by much. Much lighter on the controls than the 340 but rock solid stable. Cruise is 170kts at 8000ft with 24x24 while burning 24gph. It has two IO550s derated engines that produce 250hp. Right engine turns counter clockwise. Short field performance is phenomenal. Trailing link gear that's approved for unpaved fields. Do some research, it's the only piston airplane ever wind tunnel tested by Cessna. Truly a diamond in the rough.
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The gear on the 303 looks like its made for carrier landings!
 
I've seen someone with 8 small children in the back of a seneca and 2 adults up front.. 10 total
 
James_Dean said:
Genetics and salt. We give them a salty snack on the way to the airport. My wife and girls have no troubles going that long. We keep Gatorade bottles for the boys who generally can't go that long.
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Not all females have small bladders. We have three girls and all have been great on road trips. The oldest hasn't flown with me, but the other two and my wife have never had issues, even up to the rare 4+ hr leg flight.

I remember road trips with my parents and younger sister. My Mom and sister would split a 12 oz Sprite and my Dad and I would each get a 12 oz soda with caffeine; back before larger bottles. My Mom or sister would always need to stop for a bathroom break before my Dad or I would need a break.

I have to watch how much I drink before flying now. A large part of that is staying very hydrated from triathlon training.
 
On my flight last week 4 adults and 100 gallons of 100ll plus baggage put us 420 lbs. under gross. That being said my wife likes to take the house with us when traveling...:eek: I haven't tried to put six in mine nor have I climbed back there to check it out. I have a seat up front reserved for me after all...:goofy:
 
JC150 said:
Out of curiosity, is it possible to go from the front seat of the baron to the rear cabin in a club configuration? It looks like there's some space to slide your legs but not nearly the kind of space the 310 seems to offer.
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No.

Barons are pretty tight width wise. You really don't have enough space to squeeze between the seats like you kind of can in a Piper Seneca.
 
James, do you know anything about the Bearcat conversion? I heard its an IO-550 but its de-rated to 285hp still? How does the 310 run LOP? I've read some other threads online where people complained about the fuel system. Is it really that difficult?
 
Dave Theisen said:
6 seats, 7 people? Don't think I'd be posting that one on the Internet.
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I was about to say that too, let's just say they were just getting a shot of the interior with a crowded cabin on the ground ;)
 
Twin_Flyer, I read on the beech forums that it was a 300hp engine but still derated to 285hp, but that was posted in 2011 and maybe things have changed. Kind of like Mirage00's T303 which is derated to 250hp?
 
JC150 said:
I've read some other threads online where people complained about the fuel system. Is it really that difficult?
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I don't think there is necessarily anything wrong with the 310 fuel system other than it is more complicated than the dirt simple Baron fuel system.
 
Here is the exact engine info.... Powerplant: 2 × Continental TSIO-520-AE/LTSIO-520-AE turbocharged air-cooled flat-six piston engine, 250 hp
 
Fearless Tower said:
I don't think there is necessarily anything wrong with the 310 fuel system other than it is more complicated than the dirt simple Baron fuel system.
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:yeahthat:, it has it's procedure and that just something you have to learn... JC150, I don't think they are de-rated but I could be wrong. I'm not an expert on them nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night...:eek2::eek2::eek2:
 
JC150 said:
James, do you know anything about the Bearcat conversion? I heard its an IO-550 but its de-rated to 285hp still? How does the 310 run LOP? I've read some other threads online where people complained about the fuel system. Is it really that difficult?
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I'm not a bearcat expert, but I have heard that not all bearcat operators always remember to restrict the mp to obtain 285hp. I think you can plan on about 10 kts over the 520's with the commensurate increase in fuel. I ran my 310 LOP as a rule, sometimes even in climb.

The fuel system isn't complicated if you follow a few rules -

1. First hour and last 30 minutes are on the mains.
2. Return fuel from engines goes to the mains so there needs to be room there when you're running the aux tanks. See rule #1.
3. If engine driven pump fails any fuel in the aux tanks is unavailable. See rules #1 and #2.

I would usually run the mains down to 25 gallons and then switch to the aux tanks and run them dry or until I had 30 min remaining. It really isn't hard.
 
Maurice Ellis said:
I was about to say that too, let's just say they were just getting a shot of the interior with a crowded cabin on the ground ;)
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I'm willing to be proven wrong, but I got my advice from a pretty well known DPE. If two pax combined are under 170 lbs and can be belted then it is legal.
 
Dave Theisen said:
6 seats, 7 people? Don't think I'd be posting that one on the Internet.
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Yea I counted twice to make sure there were 7 and wondered the same thing.

Here we go on the way reasons why it's ok! :goofy:
 
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