Bad Experience in a 172.

[TMetzinger]

And when I took my spin training, both the instructor (a serious aerobatic competitor) and I wore chutes, and the in-flight egress was part of the pre-flight lesson.

I wouldn't want to go up and deliberately spin an airplane without having a lot of altitude and a parachute. And while I know it can be done in 172s in the Utility category and certain other "non-aerobatic" airplanes... I just felt better doing it in an airplane (Super Decathalon) which was both certified for aerobatics, and clearly designed for them with features that facilitated a quick exit.

I don't advocate requiring spin training for the private certificate. But I do recommend training in "light aerobatics" and upset recovery, including spins, to pilots (including student pilots) in general.

I used to be uncomfortable stalling the airplane. Then I got "ok" with it. I was anxious about teaching stalls when I started my CFI training. After the spin training and other upset recovery manuevers, I'm no longer scared much if I'm at altitude, because I'm reasonably confident that I can recover from whatever mistake I or my student may make. I'm still nervous in the pattern and on the takeoff and landing roll with new students because there's so much less time/altitude to work with while recovering.

For the other and more experienced CFIs, do you have similar reactions? I'm always putting forth the calm/relaxed "vibe" when I'm teaching, but I'm certainly more "aroused/alert" when we're below 1500 AGL.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

I don't advocate requiring spin training for the private certificate. But I do recommend training in "light aerobatics" and upset recovery, including spins, to pilots (including student pilots) in general.

The bigger your envelope, the less likely it is you will find yourself outside of it when the stuff hits the fan.

 

[Threefingeredjack]

The bigger your envelope, the less likely it is you will find yourself outside of it when the stuff hits the fan.

And in addition I might add that you should take a little time occasionally to explore all the corners of your envelope. It doesn't take long to do a stall series or a slow flight routine, ( I dirty up, fly with the stall horn blaring while in turns, then recover to cruising while aiming to not lose any altitude), every other flight or so.

 

[TommyG]

It's ashamed this guy did this to you, to take something you really want to do and possibly ruin your hopes of flying. Go find a flight school or even anyome esle you know. Go for a real flight that is enjoyable for everyone, not just thrill seeekers like your buddy. I'll tell ya, it took one flight for me, and I was hooked. I still love every minute I get to go up. I enjoy taking people up and let them experience it.

 

[jesse]

For the other and more experienced CFIs, do you have similar reactions? I'm always putting forth the calm/relaxed "vibe" when I'm teaching, but I'm certainly more "aroused/alert" when we're below 1500 AGL.

There is a point probably below about 500 AGL where my feet aren't flat on the floor and are instead hovering six inches above the rudder pedals - I never touch them or put pressure on them unless absolutely necessary. My feet will also be in this "standby" position when doing stalls.

The hardest part about instructing sometimes, especially when it's a long day and you have a little bit of trust in the student, is to stay alert. Watch their hands sometimes they'll suddenly do the most surprising things..often without the student even knowing their hand just did it. I've had more then one person pull the mixture instead of the throttle on final. I've seen people turn fuel to off instead of changing tanks, etc.

I am more comfortable teaching a brand new student stalls and slow flight then I am driving down the interstate. Teaching someone how to land for the first time however has be more alert than normal driving..about the same as driving through heavy rain.

I don't think the most dangerous part of instructing is an early new student -- those I expect to make mistakes and I'm all over it. More dangerous are the people that think they know it all. Flight reviews, instrument proficiency checks, and advanced training in privately owned aircraft that hardly if ever fly is where the real risk is, IMO.

 

[PPC1052]

Agree-- this guy was being a jack ass. I have done steep turns (45 degrees) with passengers. But it was after a discussion, and asking if the passenger was up to it. I let them know exactly what we would be doing, and to expect that it will feel funny because of the G forces, and to expect that it will feel different than when they were flying commercial. I also ask them to let me know if they start to feel bad, or they aren't having a good time. And I only do this after I have established some trust with them by flying with just gentle banks, and after I let them handle the controls themselves. Once they have handled the controls themselves, they tend to become much more comfortable. Generally they are timid with the controls, and they have a hard time holding a specific heading and altitude. Once they give back the controls, they both understand that the plane isn't just going to fall out of the sky, and they start to realize that my holding a precise heading and altitude aren't an accident. It sort of an oxymoron, but they realize both how easy it is to fly, but also how hard it is to be precise. That generally gives them the confidence to let me do a steep turn while they sit there and watch the world turn. I also like to let them know that I am doing a clearing turn to look for traffic-- that further impresses them with my concern for safety.