Bad Cultures... How to handle them?

[rt4388]

Hypothetically, lets say there was a flight school pushing their instructors, resources, airplanes, etc. to their limits. Maybe there are situations where instructors should squawk airplanes, but they don't because they know their flights tomorrow will get cancelled and there aren't many airplanes to begin with. Or maybe lets say opportunities to fly are somewhat limited and the pressure to fly is pretty severe to the point where instructors are consistently "working" 14-15 hour days and flying 4-6 within this period (often times until 2-3AM). Or maybe instructors are asking students to fly at 2AM because thats when the resource is available and then the students are scheduled for a solo time building flight 8AM the next morning. Or maybe instructors are consistently scheduled at night when icing conditions exist and are told, "we'll give you more training to avoid the clouds at night." Or maybe there are consistent maintenance squawks that are never fully taken care of (consistently multiple airplanes with multiple gear issues in the same month). Would you consider these examples of a bad company culture for a flight school?

Outside of leaving this company, how would you handle it? I constantly think back to the swiss cheese model and I think soon some of the holes are going to line up; tired instructor because 2AM, takes a flight in marginal weather, little fuel on board because no 24 hour fuel, gets a broken airplane because student forgot something on preflight, etc.. Obviously, theres a bit more to the hypothetical story, but I think the examples above show some of the pressures, risks, and safety investments the hypothetical company is willing to make.

As "professional" and "commercial" pilots these guys should be PIC and say no or make appropriate decisions, but at some point there has to be multiple mistakes or you might adapt to the pressures to the point of it being normal.

Does the FSDO like to hear about this stuff or do they just say "bring tangible proof, now go away"? I've never talked to the FSDO and hopefully never will, but I'm genuinely curios if they play any roles in situations like these. How would you handle it? Do you think there are issues here?

 

[Sundancer]

Flying nights is OK. Long days suck, and being tired sucks. Not sure you're saying the squawks are ignored/pencil whipped, or not. Are they deferring stuff that's OK to defer? Or are real safety of flight issues being skipped/band-aided.

Weather? Geez, it's VFR or not, known icing is forecast, or it isn't. . .no job is worth your life. I guess I'd set my limits, stick to 'em. I think there is a gray area here, between a busy school managing their resources efficiently, and an outfit crossing the line.

If you think they are over the line, drop a dime to the FSDO. I think you should be sure you have something substantive to bring up, cause you may be bringing a time consuming and onerous load down on the school. Make sure you aren't just tired and annoyed, or carryng some personal baggage.

 

[rt4388]

Flying nights is OK. Long days suck, and being tired sucks. Not sure you're saying the squawks are ignored/pencil whipped, or not. Are they deferring stuff that's OK to defer? Or are real safety of flight issues being skipped/band-aided.

Weather? Geez, it's VFR or not, known icing is forecast, or it isn't. . .no job is worth your life. I guess I'd set my limits, stick to 'em. I think there is a gray area here, between a busy school managing their resources efficiently, and an outfit crossing the line.

If you think they are over the line, drop a dime to the FSDO. I think you should be sure you have something substantive to bring up, cause you may be bringing a time consuming and onerous load down on the school. Make sure you aren't just tired and annoyed, or carryng some personal baggage.

Who said it was me? But I would agree. I'm not saying squawks are pencil whipped, but what I am saying is that the culture, resources, pressures and such are to the point where things are NOT squawked when they should be looked at by maintenance. For instance, maybe the heater CB in the airplane popped out a few times, nobody squawked it, and finally someone smelled something burning and the motor had burned out and charred. Maybe someone's gear did not indicate down tonight on the first try and they said "I'm not going to squawk it because its our last one."

Are these things manageable by themselves? Sure. But one day all the pieces are going to line up IMO. I think the best way to put it is that there are a lot of external pressures that are going to create multiple mistakes one day. The culture is to the point where they are putting themselves at a higher systematic risk due to processes and pressures. If I worked here, I would definitely try my best to take a step back and look at it in a logical way for sure. Just curious how others would handle this and how the FSDO would approach this.

 

[Ken Ibold]

You (the generic you) can only control yourself, so the first step is to exercise PIC responsibilities in a conscientious fashion.

Once that box is checked, work for institutional change. Join, create, or lobby for a safety committee to at least raise the profile of the issues at hand. Lobby other instructors, mechanics, students, heck even administrative staff to invoke change.

Yes, culture starts at the top, but it does not end there. It takes every person to create the culture, so work with every person to turn the Titanic. It won't be easy; cultural shifts never are. But it has to start somewhere.

Simply complaining to the FSDO is a lazy way out, at least until you have exhausted other options.

 

[SkyDog58]

...
Would you consider these examples of a bad company culture for a flight school?
...
Does the FSDO like to hear about this stuff or do they just say "bring tangible proof, now go away"? I've never talked to the FSDO and hopefully never will, but I'm genuinely curios if they play any roles in situations like these. How would you handle it? Do you think there are issues here?

Snipped your post to get to just those questions.

It’s a bad culture for any aviation organization. I don’t care which. But when you have students who lack the knowledge to know better being subjected to such a culture, it is reprehensible as those actions are seemingly being taught as how things are done. Horrible.

Regarding the FSDO. If it is a Part 141 school and things are that bad then the current POI and PMI have been negligent in their oversight responsibilities. Their management needs to know. If it is a Part 61 school which seems more likely as they sometimes fly under the radar, then I’m sure the FSDO would love to know about it.

Trying to improve the culture from the inside can be appealing and a good way to go depending on how corrupt and greedy ownership is and what their willingness to change is. However culture change in an organization that is overly corrupt can take a very long time and during that time the hazards and risks still exist and are waiting to cause someone great harm.

Do what your conscience tells you to do.

 

[hindsight2020]

Welcome to the underbelly of the flight training industry. The answer is people are too in a hurry to get to that regional seniority number to fall on their sword over it. Doesn't make it right, but that's what happens when you attempt to derive a living out of things people are willing to do for free. The only thing you can do is vote with your feet.

 

[Eric Stoltz]

You (the generic you) can only control yourself, so the first step is to exercise PIC responsibilities in a conscientious fashion.

Once that box is checked, work for institutional change. Join, create, or lobby for a safety committee to at least raise the profile of the issues at hand. Lobby other instructors, mechanics, students, heck even administrative staff to invoke change.

Yes, culture starts at the top, but it does not end there. It takes every person to create the culture, so work with every person to turn the Titanic. It won't be easy; cultural shifts never are. But it has to start somewhere.

Simply complaining to the FSDO is a lazy way out, at least until you have exhausted other options.

This and do what's best for your certificate and career imho.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

 

[rt4388]

You (the generic you) can only control yourself, so the first step is to exercise PIC responsibilities in a conscientious fashion.

Once that box is checked, work for institutional change. Join, create, or lobby for a safety committee to at least raise the profile of the issues at hand. Lobby other instructors, mechanics, students, heck even administrative staff to invoke change.

Yes, culture starts at the top, but it does not end there. It takes every person to create the culture, so work with every person to turn the Titanic. It won't be easy; cultural shifts never are. But it has to start somewhere.

Simply complaining to the FSDO is a lazy way out, at least until you have exhausted other options.

This hypothetical school has quite a few safety "awards" and committees. With that being said, the operations have changed a lot in the last year so I think it kind of comes down to management being a little out of touch. I think if someone brought it up to them, they would think it was anecdotal evidence and nothing that was systematic. I think what it may come down to is instructors, management, and other ops all cutting corners because thats the only way they can fly. There are lots of resource constraints, and in order to pay rent, keep your bosses happy, and get your hours and move on, you just have to cut corners.

 

[skier]

Personally, I’d run away and find somewhere else. In your situation I’d be worried that by staying I’d get caught up in the aftermath when something does eventually go wrong. Do you really want to have the name of a school on your resume that when Googled shows up in the first hit as, “firey plane crash kill instructor and student. School closed after lawsuit found improper maintenance and overworked instructors.”

Personally, I wouldn’t want to get to know someone really well either, knowing that if the practices continue, one of they may be killed.

I don’t believe you could really expect to cause a cultural change at a place that messed up.

 

[UngaWunga]

What would happen if you started writing up squawks?
Would you not get hours? Would the other CFIs be ****ed at you for taking a plane out of service?

Be the change you want to see.