Avweb’s Mooney Ovation Ultra Flight Report

RyanB

RyanB

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One can dream..

What’cha think?

 
They need to pressurized the Acclaim. I wonder how much weight they would save if they redid the steel frame in titanium? I hope they sell a bunch.
 
Radar Contact said:
If I was going to buy a single, this would be the one for me.
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If I had that kind of money for a piston single that would be my bird too...

Although for that money I'd consider a used Meridian. Either way it's a dream until Nigerian Prince finally wires me that money I gave him the account numbers for.
 
Why does the Mooney factory have a big tank of glycol?

That’s at the 38 second mark.
 
Am I the only one who thinks the factory paint schemes are less than attractive?
 
I happen to really love the Mooney paint schemes, I think they knocked it out of the park, good blend of modern and classic
 
But, if I am buying new, and spending three quarter million dollars or more, then I'm looking at the SR22T to be honest.. but I can save the reasons for another thread :)
 
As someone said, they really need to pressurize them.
 
MetalCloud said:
Another +1. No interest in a Mooney at all.
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I agree. After having recently sat in both a newer Mooney (I want to 2006?) and having flown a near brand new SR22T (G5) the Cirrus really is the pack leader. Even the oft maligned G1/G2 SR20 is a preferably ride to me than a comparable Archer, etc. Weak climb performance? Maybe a tad.. but it's in the ballpark of the Archer and a far more comfortable ride

BUT, we need Mooney to stay alive for the health of GA. I was very disappointed when they abandoned their light M10T/J line as I was hoping that would be their version of the SR20 and usher in a new generation of modern high end lux GA with a nice step up program. Oh well
 
dans2992 said:
they really need to pressurize them
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Do they? Not intending sarcasm.. but curious as to why. From what I understand the sweet spot for turbocharged pistons is around 16K-19K.. and while the face mask and canulas are annoying, I wonder if a full pressurization system is worth the cost, complexity, weight, etc... I would be hypothetically curious how many pressurized models would actually sell. The Malibu Mirage is a pressurized competitor (kind of) to both the Cirrus and the Mooney and they're not exactly flying off the shelves. Piper sold, I think 120-ish planes last year total.. not sure of that number how many were pressurized Malibu Mirages

I feel like most upper end single engine piston buyers want oxygen and turbo to have the option to go high, and fast, if needed, but generally don't plan to cruise for extended amounts of time at 25K.. but I could be wrong
 
Cruising with 3 pax at 16-19k is not that feasible if they all have to wear O2. Just the pilot? Sure.

The wife, mother-in-law, and an 8 year old? Not so much.

The Malibu is my dream “step up” aircraft from the Comanche I have now.
 
Mooney had a pressurized single from 67 -69 in the M22. Didn’t do too well, sold 30 airframes before it was shelved.
 
dans2992 said:
Cruising with 3 pax at 16-19k is not that feasible if they all have to wear O2. Just the pilot? Sure.

The wife, mother-in-law, and an 8 year old? Not so much.

The Malibu is my dream “step up” aircraft from the Comanche I have now.
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Well, they don't have to wear a mask. Mother in law can just sleep through the flight at FL20, right?
 
dans2992 said:
Cruising with 3 pax at 16-19k is not that feasible if they all have to wear O2. Just the pilot? Sure.
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And how much gas can you put in the tanks after you load yourself and 3 pax into a Mooney? Delete everything after the "if..." and you have a more accurate statement.
 
Tantalum said:
Do they? Not intending sarcasm.. but curious as to why. From what I understand the sweet spot for turbocharged pistons is around 16K-19K.. and while the face mask and canulas are annoying, I wonder if a full pressurization system is worth the cost, complexity, weight, etc... I would be hypothetically curious how many pressurized models would actually sell. The Malibu Mirage is a pressurized competitor (kind of) to both the Cirrus and the Mooney and they're not exactly flying off the shelves. Piper sold, I think 120-ish planes last year total.. not sure of that number how many were pressurized Malibu Mirages

I feel like most upper end single engine piston buyers want oxygen and turbo to have the option to go high, and fast, if needed, but generally don't plan to cruise for extended amounts of time at 25K.. but I could be wrong
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2017 data not out yet.
In 2016 Piper sold a total of 127 aircraft.
Their pressurized plane is pretty popular within their line; of the 127 planes 60 were pressurized. 26 of those were piston engine Malibus and 34 were turboprop Meridians.

Cirrus' solution to the lack of pressurization in the SR22T is to move you up into their jet.
 
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I watched this a week ago.

Looks great but I couldn't help but notice them looking like sandwiched sardines kissing shoulders.

How many people in that price range end up in a Cirrus simply because it's so much wider and comfortable? Probably a good many.
 
Yawn.

That company should innovate or die already...they need to compete with Cirrus which means in addition to FINALLY putting a pilot side door they also need to:
  • Update the design by increasing the cabin width (6-8 inches) & length.
  • Install a chute
  • - in an pod/enclosure of its own making maintenance easier
  • - doesn't trash the airframe when deployed
  • Significantly lower their pricing (match inflation adjusted 1970s pricing)
  • Certify multiple engine options (diesel, Lyco & Conti options)
  • - helps lower pricing as multiple manf competing for orders
  • - increases overseas orders if Jet-A an option
Certainly steps above can be done incrementally, and give a sense of "innovation" and continuous improvement...but, WTHDIK.

my predictions are:
  • Sales stay abysmal
  • Mooney increases pricing to make up for "low sales"
  • fanboys defend the move while blaming ("liability insurance" or "lawsuits")
  • Cycle repeats itself at least once more
  • Mooney goes under this time for good.
 
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I watched this a while back as well. First thought was they need a new face for AVweb as that guy is awful!. While it is a very good airplane, it is too airplane for today's market where everyone want an airplane to be like a car. The seating position is too low, interior too cramped, and the layout is boring compared to Cirrus and TTx models. This is all relative to newer aircraft of course as it is still a very nice airplane.
 
I have to admit, I sat in a new Mooney at the Scottsdale Air Expo and I wasn't all that impressed. It just felt cheap on the inside compared to the Cirrus. In fact, in my opinion it wasn't even close to as nice as the Cirrus was on the interior (not that this is necesarilly the most important part of an airplane). Now I noticed on their website that the newest ones are using the G1000 NXi system. This Mooney just had the traditional G1000. Idk. The whole plane was just "meh". I was actually really disappointed as I was looking forward to seeing what the new Mooney's were like.

I have heard nothing but bad things about Malibu's. My instructor has taught in several and another instructor I used to fly with, flew a Malibu for a family. All of them were shop queens. Can't believe how tight those planes are too. Now the Meridian on the other hand is a pretty sweet plane. Would love to fly in one of those.
 
GRG55 said:
26 of those were piston engine Malibus
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We can deduce from this that for a (still) new company like Cirrus, or a financially-barely-hanging-on company like Mooney the investment and effort required to pressurize their planes is not worth it. 26 planes??! Even if we were optimistic and said Cirrus could sell 4 times that I still doubt 100 would be worth the push.. plus, like you said.. from the SR22T if you really need pressurization and you're already a million dollar buyer you're moving into a jet (just just Cirrus' jet, but a Mustang, or something else)

Grum.Man said:
it is too airplane for today's market where everyone want an airplane to be like a car
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Yes. G1000 is not enough to cut it, the plane has to feel comfortable inside

Grum.Man said:
The seating position is too low, interior too cramped, and the layout is boring compared to Cirrus and TTx models
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Yup. But even cars are moving away from that. I'm not even saying that planes are trying to be like cars and that's a bad thing... I just think today's buyer is much more comfort oriented. Even the cars that are coming out today are far different from those of even just 10 years ago. Heck, you can barely find new manual lux cars.. people criticize Cirrus for ditching the prop level and not being RG.. but look at cars? There are virtually no new true manual lux/performance cars being offered anymore and even a "small" car like a Miata is much bigger now than when it came out. People across the spectrum are prioritizing comfort

CC268 said:
Can't believe how tight those planes are too
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Yes, I feel it comes back to comfort again. Would you rather wear a canula in a big cabin for 3 hrs or sit without a canula in an itsy bitsy cabin for 3 hrs... and how often do you actually need pressurization. Diamond DA62 didn't bother with pressurization either
 
The Ovation Ultra looks like a great choice for the right mission.

Here is my take (from someone who owns a 35 year old airplane) - my mission is pretty straightforward - I fly one route pretty consistently: East Texas to Midland (West Texas) which is about 380NM and 3-4 hours of flight time depending on wind. I fly by myself - this is for business and my wife does not like flying.

For my purposes, the Ovation Ultra makes alot of sense (money being no object). I don't need the extra room of the Cirrus and the speed of the Mooney is an advantage.

Now if I was going to haul 1-2 passengers routinely, I would have to think about the Cirrus. The extra room would be a huge factor.

To me, the Mooney seems like the Corvette or Porsche of the single engine GA market - not alot of sense for a people hauler, but nothing better for a single pilot and it has the good looks and the retractable gear - which is just plain cool.

The Cirrus is "Land Rover" - hauls the most and is more practicable, but with high level of performance, but definitely not as "sexy" as the Mooney (Corvette).

Now, back to my Beech C23 Sundowner, which is the "moped" of the airplane world!
 
A Navy guy took an intersection departure from an already short airstrip, and got into a departure stall over trees. He crashed into a house. He, his wife and little daughter all walked away. You can have your damn Cirrus.
 
steingar said:
A Navy guy took an intersection departure from an already short airstrip, and got into a departure stall over trees. He crashed into a house. He, his wife and little daughter all walked away. You can have your damn Cirrus.
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Certainly something to be said for the Mooney "roll cage".
 
CC268 said:
Starting to sound like that one Mooney guy who was always on here (forgot his name) :p
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Oh, it's very familiar. Same rhetoric. Makes me laugh every time! Such the keyboard warriors!

And I will take my damn Cirrus. Any day of the week.
 
If you are going to have a turbocharged engine, then to maximize performance of the plane you need to fly high.
Flying high allows you to fly over the weather but you need FIKI to get up and back down.
Pressurized cabins allow you to not worry about if you have enough O2, and
I don’t know anyone who likes wearing cannulas and masks.
Turbo, FIKI, pressurization go together.

If you don’t like touching shoulders, just stagger the seat positions.

If you’re going to design and build a new aircraft, it can’t be that much more expensive to add pressurization, and then you can sell it for $990K.
Keep the Ovation for now.
I’d skip the diesel and start working on an electric plane. No more engine maintenance!
 
MetalCloud said:
Oh, it's very familiar. Same rhetoric. Makes me laugh every time! Such the keyboard warriors!

And I will take my damn Cirrus. Any day of the week.
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Each to his own. I'll try not to be such a fanboy, though the thread was about Mooneys...
 
Ken Ibold said:
Berto is not for everyone. I could tell some stories ...
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Indeed. All these public personas tend to have a prima donna thing going in private. Lots of attitude when the cameras aren't rolling. That's why those videos of them cussing people out and flipping their feigned personality on its head go viral so quickly, and generally cost the leakers their jobs.
 
steingar said:
Each to his own. I'll try not to be such a fanboy, though the thread was about Mooneys...
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The thread was posting a video about the new Mooney, and even in the vid they compare the Mooney to the TTx and Cirrus. So it's not an only-Mooney thread. Even the comments after the OP are decent and relatively objective. All was good until your trolling fanboy comment:

steingar said:
Dah, Mooneys take care of their occupants. Cirri just burn.
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That's just one big :rolleyes:
 
MetalCloud said:
That's just one big :rolleyes:
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Says you. Crash a Cirrus into a house and see how the occupants fare. And sorry, I've seen a number of Cirrus crashes where there wasn't anything left but ash. I stand by my comment.

That, and Mooney pilots don't need no stinkin' parachute.
 
MetalCloud said:
Holy crap @CC268 .... it might be the same dude!
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Haha...I can't for the life of me remember that guys name...he was bad about being a Mooney fanboy though. I didn't have any issue with him, but man he was hardcore.

I don't get all worked up about it. Could really care less. It's like the Ford vs. Chevy debate. I just love seeing grown men getting so riled up about it. They are all better than my Cherokee 140 ha.
 
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