Avionics Upgrade - Like winter, it's coming

Bman.

Bman.

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Bman.
Morning all -

About two years ago I posted on the forum regarding avionics upgrade for my '79 PA-28-181 (3100 TT). The maintenance shop's schedule pushed us out to 2019 (I scheduled this over a year ago). That date is now approaching quickly and we need to figure out what we are really going to do.

The question has always been ADS-B only or whole hog upgrade. The problem we face is almost all of the avionics are original era, repaired but working. If we bring a new GPS into the mix, by virtue of that upgrade, you begin down a path of full panel upgrade.

The costs are shaping up like this:

GPS: $10,000 GTN-650 : We agree this needs to be done.
$2,000 MD200-306 NAV indicator

NAV 2 / COMM 2 $8,000 GNC-255A + GMA-345. This is part the second half of the radios. Don’t really want only one comm and nav.

Transponder: $4,000 GTX-345 : We need a new transponder as much as anything and this is the ADS-B IN/Out portion of the project.

Labor $8,000


All in, we are looking at around $32,000.

The question is, say we go full upgrade, are there any good alternatives that are cheaper than the 650GTN solution? The GPS upgrade, which leads to NAV indicators and new comm2/nav2 radios, is 80% of the total upgrade cost. The ADS-B / transponder portion is cheaper portion.

I have been tasked with finding the middle of the road. I am not sure there is a middle of the road or a road at all at this point.

Good thing my $1.6B check will be printed tonight!

Thanks for input or suggestions that we might consider.
Benjamin
 
If I were you, I'd be doing a G5 HSI rather than a regular nav indicator. Yes, it's a little more cost, but it's a HUGE upgrade in capability.

Do you really need the GNC255A? What's your current nav/com situation like? Can you just keep one of those as nav/com 2?
 
Hello Benjamin,

I'm currently in the process of an avionics upgrade and should be done in roughly a week. I did a similar upgrade to you, but elected to forgo the IFR GPS. In lieu of it I have:
GNC255 + GI-106A(CDI) = 6k
GTR225 = 1.5K
GMA342 = 1.2k (same as 345 minus Bluetooth)
GTX327 + GDL 82 = 2.3k
Aera 660 (already installed)

Labor TBD.

I would definitely recommend getting it all done at once, as you've seen, wait lists are absolutely absurd. If you were looking to shave cost, it might be cheaper to get a GTN625 (same as the 650, but minus NAV/COM) or GTN635 (GPS + COMM, no NAV) most people don't know these exist.

Do you really need two NAV's? You could shave a bit off by doing a GTR 225 instead of a GNC255? I'd echo looking into G5's and removing the vacuum system (depends on your autopilot status)
 
bradg33 said:
If I were you, I'd be doing a G5 HSI rather than a regular nav indicator. Yes, it's a little more cost, but it's a HUGE upgrade in capability.

Do you really need the GNC255A? What's your current nav/com situation like? Can you just keep one of those as nav/com 2?
Click to expand...

I just installed two G5 units and I couldn't be happier. So much bang for the buck. I see no need for dual NAV units.
 
You gotta really love that plane to put $30k in the panel.

ADS-B compliance only would seem the conservative approach.
 
Need.. well, that depends on who you ask. I feel like I "need" but the wife and checkbook disagree.

You guys are going the wrong way on cost. I like the G5's for sure though. The problem is you just added another $3,000 for the PFD.

The nav2/comm2 is an old Collins 251/351 with AMR-350 audio control panel.
 
Ravioli said:
You gotta really love that plane to put $30k in the panel.

ADS-B compliance only would seem the conservative approach.
Click to expand...

The is truth to this logic for sure. This is the dilemma indeed.

Either get ADS-B and fly the doors off for a couple more years or do the upgrade. The radios are going, the transponder is going and land based approach options are fading for sure. I have a partner in the plane so at least the cost is split. This doesn't make it much easier... but still easier.

Love the plane, kind of. I could use a bigger / faster plane for sure.
 
Bman. said:
Need.. well, that depends on who you ask. I feel like I "need" but the wife and checkbook disagree.

You guys are going the wrong way on cost. I like the G5's for sure though. The problem is you just added another $3,000 for the PFD.

The nav2/comm2 is an old Collins 251/351 with AMR-350 audio control panel.
Click to expand...

Honestly, com/nav 2 is just a backup to the GTN650; why not just keep the 251/351 and the accompanying CDI? Obviously swap out the audio panel (I'd do a PMA450b) but that'll save you several thousand dollars in a second radio that you won't use that much anyway. That money can either say in your pocket or go toward G5s.

Frankly, I think skipping the G5s to save a few thousand on a $30k job is short sighted at this point in time.
 
You could go used and cut that in half quite easily. I went a bit over board on my stack. GMA340, GNS430W, SL-30, GTX330ES. And next to it is a panel mounted 696. I could have done it much cheaper with less capability, or much more expensive with all new.

I bought it flying for $55k. Some of the spend was offset by selling the removed pieces.

When I said you have to love that plane to spend that cash, I meant it.

And I do love mine.
 

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ABSOLUTELY get a new audio panel too. With the stuff you are replacing the labor for installation of a new stereo panel is free. Have a strong look a the PSE-450B. Crystal clear sound, multiple bluetooth connections to iPads to hear audio annunciation's from both the panel and an iPad with ForeFlight.
 
BGF_Yankee said:
Funny...I scheduled into Sarasota Avionics with just under a month's notice...:confused:
Click to expand...

A friend took his there for a dual G-5 install. Took 6 months and a return for 2 more weeks because the compass would turn when the strobe lights were turned on. They still didn't fix it the second time around so he and I took care of it by relocating the magnetometer in the wing.

Hopefully you have better luck!
 
I wouldn't replace NAV/COM 2 until they are non functional. They are just backups for the GTN GPS/COM. An audio panel should be part of this upgrade for current and future compatibility. In-panel ADS-B is highly desirable for neat, wire-free IFR operation. I did mine in stages: GPS, indicator, and audio panel first, then ADS-B 1090ES transponder a few years later. Obviously the 2020 deadline is compressing your schedule. It's not cheap.
 
Ray Eaker said:
A friend took his there for a dual G-5 install. Took 6 months and a return for 2 more weeks because the compass would turn when the strobe lights were turned on. They still didn't fix it the second time around so he and I took care of it by relocating the magnetometer in the wing.

Hopefully you have better luck!
Click to expand...

Already had my Lance done last October and the Seneca is getting done right now. So far, pretty smooth experience. Lance was a lot more in depth than what the Seneca is getting.
 
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