Aviation Myth, or Great Trick?

Teller1900

Teller1900

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Denver, CO
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I am a dad!
No, I'm not resurecting the tread mill, don't worry! We were in the soup tonight coming up from Boston to Rockland. Usually around Pease they give us 050, direct Sprucehead/Rockland when able. Well, Sprucehead is an NDB that's about 100ish miles from Pease. Obviously it's not suitible for navigation when we get the turn, so we have a few tricks for finding our way. 1) the BOS 055 radial goes almost directly over RKD and we can receive it out to about 30-50 miles from RKD and 2) use the radar. Boston is on the coast, Rockland is on the coast, our entire flight is just off shore, and both cities have distinctly identifiable features.

So I'm flying with a CA tonight that I've only flown with a few times before. I switch on the radar and point it 2 degrees down so it'll start mapping the coast line for us, to make sure we're not getting blow too far out in the STRONG southwesterly winds. The CA turns to me and asks me why I'm trying to slow down all the traffic on I95 and US1? I look at him with one eyebrow raised. He goes on to explain that, if you fly down the highway on a clear night with the radar pointed down you can watch the brake lights come on as people's radar detectors go nuts.

I had never thought of this. If it's true, I've ****ed off A LOT of people in the last few months (and will continue to in the next few months). So is it possible for on-board radar to set off a fuzz buster? I know both our radar and police radar works on the doppler effect, but are they close enough in frequency/power for us to actually mess with radar detectors at 6-16K feet?
 
When I was running back and forth between St. Louis and Jacksonville, I had a two-meter ham radio and a 250 watt amplifier. I had a high-gain antenna that went about six feet above the hatchback on the Monza. A short fluorescent light was taped to the antenna what would light up when I keyed. That got some attention from other drivers.

But, I had more fun when I keyed up behind someone or to the side and saw their radar detector light up followed by their brake lights. :D
 
It's possible, X-band frequency is used by both police and airborne radar.

Whether your system used it would have to be confirmed.
 
While driving across central Nevada, on Hwy 50 (loneliest road in America), the fighters from TopGun at Fallon NAS would bef lying nap of the earth, and would sneak up on cars and blow up their radar detectors (mine included). The F-16's out of the SLC would do it too, in central Utah. (near Sevier Dry Lake)

At just a few hundred ft AGL, they would really put the fear of cops in you, cause it would happen so quickly and powerfully... You'd swear there was a cop right on your bumper!
 
Teller1900 said:
X-Band, you say? Where's my flight manual...
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Ours were K and Ka bands. They seem to be the most common. I haven't seen a X band in a while. But I guess some radar detectors would still pick it up.
 
ausrere said:
Ours were K and Ka bands. They seem to be the most common. I haven't seen a X band in a while. But I guess some radar detectors would still pick it up.
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All current detectors will detect X, K, Ka, and Laser. They wouldn't want to let you caught by some old town sheriff with old equipment.
 
mikea said:
All current detectors will detect X, K, Ka, and Laser. They wouldn't want to let you caught by some old town sheriff with old equipment.
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I pretty much ignore everything X band. K gets my attention and Ka *really gets my attention*. The laser detection is worthless. It just lets you know that you are about to be pulled over.
 
colomtnflyer said:
While driving across central Nevada, on Hwy 50 (loneliest road in America), the fighters from TopGun at Fallon NAS would bef lying nap of the earth, and would sneak up on cars and blow up their radar detectors (mine included). The F-16's out of the SLC would do it too, in central Utah. (near Sevier Dry Lake)

At just a few hundred ft AGL, they would really put the fear of cops in you, cause it would happen so quickly and powerfully... You'd swear there was a cop right on your bumper!
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Now that you mention that, he did say something about his uncle doing it in F-18s. That's pretty funny.
 
jesse said:
The laser detection is worthless. It just lets you know that you are about to be pulled over.
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Not always true, just usually. My Valentine One that I used to have one time picked up laser when I was going triple digit speeds. I slammed on the brakes, and then I got it again. The cop pulled out and I had visions of all sorts of bad things happening.

When I got pulled over, she said "Well isn't this a fancy little car... I clocked you going 85 in a 65."

I've never been so relieved to be pulled over, I didn't even care about the ticket! :D

I don't drive with a radar detector anymore. The Valentine One got stolen (twice, actually), and after that I decided it wasn't worth it. Interestingly, I got more tickets when I had it than now that I don't, but that's because I also drive slower now.

This comes to mind for the aircraft that **** off the cars on the highway with their radar:

funny-picture-speed-limit-enforced-by-aircraft-apache-attack-helicopter.jpg
 
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jesse said:
I pretty much ignore everything X band. K gets my attention and Ka *really gets my attention*. The laser detection is worthless. It just lets you know that you are about to be pulled over.
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The X-band is for the old 10GHz radar guns. There may still be a few around but at 10.252GHz are all the electric/automatic door openers and they will most definitely set of a radar detector.

I used to work on stuff in X and K bands. I still have a small k-band dopler head laying about that I would hook up and drive down the expressway. I would turn it on and the cars would slow down and move tot he right. Then I would speed by on the left. :rofl::rofl:
 
I do not think this is likely to be an issue; these days, nearly all legitimate police radar (at least, in our neck of the woods) is Ka, and also has a particular "signature" recognized by the DSP in the Valentine One (or so they say...).

X and K are almost irrelevant (I still don't ignore K, but I don't jam the brakes either). Ka is a sure thing.

The laser detection actually works, but it is triggered by many HID headlamps because of the large spectrum of light emitted by these new lamps.

Fact of the matter is, while I still value my V1, I also find that my best protection from random speed limit enforcement technology ("random," because radar and laser are rarely even remotely related to safety, but rather, are principally revenue devices) is that I am a lot more aware of my driving surroundings and conditions and, yes, I am in somewhat less of a hurry than I used to be.

Of course, since I have been flying, the number of long driving trips I take has declined dramatically. That helps, too!

--

Oops. Bottom line (back on topic): I think the wx radar is unlikely to materially affect most modern radar threat warning receivers.
 
I find doing the speed limit is a way to avoid speeding tickets. And it has the benefot of not having to spend money on a radar detector.
 
smigaldi said:
I find doing the speed limit is a way to avoid speeding tickets. And it has the benefot of not having to spend money on a radar detector.
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Which is why you always get to the party after all the best food and drinks are gone!
 
smigaldi said:
I find doing the speed limit is a way to avoid speeding tickets. And it has the benefot of not having to spend money on a radar detector.
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I find many speed limits are set at levels which are artificially low and (as any competent traffic safety expert who is not in the employ of the IIHS will tell you) speed limits set lower than conditions merit create a greater hazard than properly-set speed limits.
 
mikea said:
All current detectors will detect X, K, Ka, and Laser. They wouldn't want to let you caught by some old town sheriff with old equipment.
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Old Town is about 60sm Northeast of Rockland. (Yes, I'm being "funny" here.)

HR
 
Greebo said:
Wait...

... you let... a woman... give you directions!?? :hairraise: :no:
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My wife named the car Garmin "Mabel" -- for Mappin' Mabel. She likes that better than Bitchin' Betty. But then when my son plays with it, he turns the language to Swedish, in which case we call the Gamin "Inga."

Svang venster! Svang hoeger!
 
Ken Ibold said:
My wife named the car Garmin "Mabel" -- for Mappin' Mabel. She likes that better than Bitchin' Betty. But then when my son plays with it, he turns the language to Swedish, in which case we call the Gamin "Inga."

Svang venster! Svang hoeger!
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I'm going to have to play with that once I get my Garmin back. :rofl::rofl::rofl: I loaned it to a friend... hum, there is just something wrong with my Garmin being in Hawaii without me...

Missa
 
You folks have me wondering what they use to monitor speed on Atlanta highways. I see the little gray boxes up there and I had always assumed they were radar. But, I hear nothing of them setting off radar detectors.

The only thing ever mentioned in the media I can recall was they were not and could not be used for enforcement purposes.
 
smigaldi said:
I find doing the speed limit is a way to avoid speeding tickets. And it has the benefot of not having to spend money on a radar detector.
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What was that old CB saying back in the days of the 55 mph speed limit? Oh, yeah. "Travel the double nickel day and night and Smokey Bear won't bite!" :D

Avoiding speeding does cut down on the tickets, that's for sure.
 
KennyFlys said:
Man, I was just waiting for that sudden decrease in speed. An open road with other traffic? That's just plain nuts! :hairraise:
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While the description says '175 mph' I wonder if that is really a kM/hr speedometer we are looking at. Still fast but more believable given the road and amount of acceleration we are seeing.
 
smigaldi said:
While the description says '175 mph' I wonder if that is really a KM/hr speedometer we are looking at. Still fast but more believable given the road and amount of acceleration we are seeing.
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On the one hand, the "regular" traffic was in the left lane, which argues for kph. But that kind of speed in mph on a big sport bike far from unheard of. Heck, my completely stock 1982 Honda (first year V45 Magna) could do 150, and that was with less than 750cc.
 
Ken Ibold said:
On the one hand, the "regular" traffic was in the left lane, which argues for kph. But that kind of speed in mph on a big sport bike far from unheard of. Heck, my completely stock 1982 Honda (first year V45 Magna) could do 150, and that was with less than 750cc.
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I am not saying that 175mph is not achievable on a street bike I am saying the acceleration from 90 -140 that we see in a couple of seconds is far fetched if that is mph.
50mph in 2 secs?? !! I don't think so. :no: He would be thrown off the bike. 50miles/hr/sec is 2,200 ft/s2, that is bullet muzzle acceleration type of speeds

50kMh in 2 seconds, much more believable as that corresponds to about 30 mph in a 2 seconds
 
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SCCutler said:
Ulp. :hairraise:
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KennyFlys said:
Man, I was just waiting for that sudden decrease in speed. An open road with other traffic? That's just plain nuts! :hairraise:
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smigaldi said:
I am not saying that 175mph is not achievable on a street bike I am saying the acceleration from 90 -140 that we see in a couple of seconds is far fetched if that is mph.
50mph in 2 secs?? !! I don't think so. :no: He would be thrown off the bike. 50miles/hr/sec is 2,200 ft/s2, that is bullet muzzle acceleration type of speeds

50kMh in 2 seconds, much more believable as that corresponds to about 30 mph in a 2 seconds
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Cue Jesse's picture of the guy who speared the truck trailer with his head.
 
smigaldi said:
I am not saying that 175mph is not achievable on a street bike I am saying the acceleration from 90 -140 that we see in a couple of seconds is far fetched if that is mph.
50mph in 2 secs?? !! I don't think so. :no: He would be thrown off the bike. 50miles/hr/sec is 2,200 ft/s2, that is bullet muzzle acceleration type of speeds

50kMh in 2 seconds, much more believable as that corresponds to about 30 mph in a 2 seconds
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OK, I'm with you. To be honest, I didn't really watch it that closely.
 
smigaldi said:
I am not saying that 175mph is not achievable on a street bike I am saying the acceleration from 90 -140 that we see in a couple of seconds is far fetched if that is mph.
50mph in 2 secs?? !! I don't think so. :no: He would be thrown off the bike. 50miles/hr/sec is 2,200 ft/s2, that is bullet muzzle acceleration type of speeds

50kMh in 2 seconds, much more believable as that corresponds to about 30 mph in a 2 seconds
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You obviously have no experience on super bikes. 0 to 60 mph in under 3 seconds *STOCK* is normal. 0 to 100 mph? About 5 seconds. Modern 1000 cc motorcycles are scary fast. There is nothing in that video that makes me think it is fake.

You can't pay attention to the digital speedometer either. There is delay with it. It only refreshes so often. They are somewhat inaccurrate at the higher speeds. But I've seen bikes that make this one look like a moped.
 
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Taken from Edmunds:

"Two California Highway Patrol Officers almost taken out by an F/A-18 Hornet"

"Two California Highway Patrol Officers were conducting speeding enforcement on I-15 near MCAS Miramar. One of the officers was using a hand held radar device to check speeding vehicles approaching near the crest of a hill. The officers were suddenly surprised when the radar gun began reading 300 miles per hour. The officer attempted to reset the radar gun, but it would not reset and turned off. Just then a deafening roar over the treetops revealed that the radar had in fact locked onto a USMC F/A-18 Hornet which was engaged in a low flying exercise near the location.

Back at the CHP Headquarters the Patrol Captain fired off a complaint to the USMC Base Commander. Back came a reply in true USMC style:

"Thank you for the message, which allows us to complete the file on this incident. You may be interested to know that the tactical computer in the Hornet had detected the presence of, and subsequently locked onto your hostile radar equipment and automatically sent a jamming signal back to it. Furthermore, an air to ground missile aboard the fully armed aircraft had also automatically locked onto your equipment. Fortunately the Marine Pilot flying the Hornet recognized the situation for what it was, quickly responded to the missile system alert status and was able to override the automated defense system before the missile was launched and your hostile radar was destroyed.

Thank you for your concerns."
 
mikea said:
Cue Jesse's picture of the guy who speared the truck trailer with his head.
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I had exactly that image in my mind as I saw him speed up every time. Particularly when passing another vehicle at 140+! :eek:
 
Teller1900 said:
I know both our radar and police radar works on the doppler effect, but are they close enough in frequency/power for us to actually mess with radar detectors at 6-16K feet?
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I didn't know plane radar used doppler- I thought it was just reflectivity like the H2S radars I read about (used in WWII). Live & learn!

mikea said:
All current detectors will detect X, K, Ka, and Laser. They wouldn't want to let you caught by some old town sheriff with old equipment.
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When I left NJ, the state police were still using X band. I suspect they figured most people ignored the X band alerts...
 
Cap'n Jack said:
I didn't know plane radar used doppler- I thought it was just reflectivity like the H2S radars I read about (used in WWII). Live & learn!

When I left NJ, the state police were still using X band. I suspect they figured most people ignored the X band alerts...
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I remember reading or hearing that some third world fighter jets used Escort automotive radar detectors! Syria, Egypt or Israel?
 
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