Aviation Keyboard App for ForeFlight...Finally!!

T

Taylor Murphy

Filing Flight Plan
Joined
Mar 28, 2017
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Display name:
tmurph113
I recently came across on article on iPad Pilot News reviewing the app FFkeyboard and was quite impressed. Why hasn't ForeFlight thought of doing this on their own?? Anyways I went ahead and downloaded it to try it and this thing is a game changer. HUGE time saver and it really helps me keep everything nice and organized!

Has anyone else heard of this or tried it?

Screen Shot 2017-03-28 at 1.39.14 PM.png

*Update*

Several people below asked to see a video of live inputting ATC directions so here are two I did.

ATIS

Clearance
 
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I've seen a couple comments, mostly negative. Two in particular:
  1. Having to search for a dedicated key isn't really faster than entering the info on a keyboard you've been using since the first time you ever encountered one. Just looking at it, that sounds like a legit gripe to me. I can just see the multiple "say agains" when trying to take down the taxi instructions in the panel left of center searching for those dedicated keys instead of simply typing or writing "7 B1 E4 X 13" as it is said. But if you've really found that faster, go for it.
  2. It's not FF-specific. It's an alternate iOS keyboard, meaning it will be there in every other app that uses a keyboard, so you will have to take the time to go into settings to select and deselect it. If true, sounds like a PITA.
Personally, the kinds of things they are describing it being used for are the kinds of things I write by hand, whether on the tablet or on paper, but I know others prefer keyboards and are far better typists than I.
 
I am going to try it - it might help for me mainly for taxi instructions at new airports. I always have my ipad on my knee - and my clipboard in the seat - so it might help - time will tell.

Dean
 
codeeno said:
I am going to try it - it might help for me mainly for taxi instructions at new airports. I always have my ipad on my knee - and my clipboard in the seat - so it might help - time will tell.

Dean
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It has been a huge help for me while taxing so I'm sure you will like it as well! Just takes a little time to get used to
 
midlifeflyer said:
I've seen a couple comments, mostly negative. Two in particular:
  1. Having to search for a dedicated key isn't really faster than entering the info on a keyboard you've been using since the first time you ever encountered one. Just looking at it, that sounds like a legit gripe to me. I can just see the multiple "say agains" when trying to take down the taxi instructions in the panel left of center searching for those dedicated keys instead of simply typing or writing "7 B1 E4 X 13" as it is said. But if you've really found that faster, go for it.
  2. It's not FF-specific. It's an alternate iOS keyboard, meaning it will be there in every other app that uses a keyboard, so you will have to take the time to go into settings to select and deselect it. If true, sounds like a PITA.
Personally, the kinds of things they are describing it being used for are the kinds of things I write by hand, whether on the tablet or on paper, but I know others prefer keyboards and are far better typists than I.
Click to expand...

You do not have to go into settings to select or deselect for other apps. If it comes up you just hit KB, then ABC.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I've seen a couple comments, mostly negative. Two in particular:
  1. Having to search for a dedicated key isn't really faster than entering the info on a keyboard you've been using since the first time you ever encountered one. Just looking at it, that sounds like a legit gripe to me. I can just see the multiple "say agains" when trying to take down the taxi instructions in the panel left of center searching for those dedicated keys instead of simply typing or writing "7 B1 E4 X 13" as it is said. But if you've really found that faster, go for it.
  2. It's not FF-specific. It's an alternate iOS keyboard, meaning it will be there in every other app that uses a keyboard, so you will have to take the time to go into settings to select and deselect it. If true, sounds like a PITA.
Personally, the kinds of things they are describing it being used for are the kinds of things I write by hand, whether on the tablet or on paper, but I know others prefer keyboards and are far better typists than I.
Click to expand...
I too thought it would take a while to remember where all the keys were but after a day or two of playing with it, it becomes much easier! Just a slight learning curve to overcome
 
Hey. So, what's your affiliation with this app?

one.png two.png three.png four.png

It would have been smarter to disclose this in the first place.
 
The Management Council would like an answer to the above question too, @Taylor Murphy. The Rules of Conduct state:

  • Participants may not use the Classified or any other forum for false testimonials. This means that if you are the seller or manufacturer of an item or have any association with the seller or manufacturer of an item you must disclose this fact and may not post a testimonial or a post encouraging others to “ check it out” without such a disclosure.
Click to expand...
 
EppyGA said:
You do not have to go into settings to select or deselect for other apps. If it comes up you just hit KB, then ABC.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I used to try alternate keyboards but stopped years ago because they were always buggy. I forgot there's a link to switch them right in the keyboard.
 
rrrrr said:
Hey. So, what's your affiliation with this app?

View attachment 52338 View attachment 52337 View attachment 52336 View attachment 52335

It would have been smarter to disclose this in the first place.
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Zero? I know Dr. Morgan since I was college roommates with his son, don't know what else you are implying? He showed me that he developed this and got a good response amongst his pilot friends in Orlando. I found it to be pretty useful as well so am just further helping spread the word of a good idea
 
Taylor Murphy said:
Zero? I know Dr. Morgan since I was college roommates with his son, don't know what else you are implying? He showed me that he developed this and got a good response amongst his pilot friends in Orlando. I found it to be pretty useful as well so am just further helping spread the word of a good idea
Click to expand...
Note that the Rules of Conduct state:
  • Participants may not use the Classified or any other forum for false testimonials. This means that if you are the seller or manufacturer of an item or have any association with the seller or manufacturer of an item you must disclose this fact and may not post a testimonial or a post encouraging others to “ check it out” without such a disclosure.
Click to expand...
If what you say is true, you could have said something like, "My former college roomate's father developed and is selling this product." Otherwise, it looks like you are shilling for him without disclosing. I'm guessing we have enough curious POA members who are checking out your story, so what you just posted better be the whole truth.
 
Everskyward said:
Note that the Rules of Conduct state:
If what you say is true, you could have said something like, "My former college roomate's father developed and is selling this product." Otherwise, it looks like you are shilling for him without disclosing. I'm guessing we have enough curious POA members who are checking out your story, so what you just posted better be the whole truth.
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Roger that. Again, I'm not affiliated in any way, just was spreading the word of something that I have found to be quite useful and helpful
 
Taylor Murphy said:
Roger that. Again, I'm not affiliated in any way, just was spreading the word of something that I have found to be quite useful and helpful
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OK, we welcome you to participate in the forums in other ways besides promoting a product. Just so that you know the backstory, we had another member who was constantly doing what you just did despite numerous warnings, and people are not appreciative of it.
 
Totally understandable! That is certainly not my intent, I just like spreading the news of anything new that can beneficial/helpful for flying
 
Wow, how elaborate an app do you need to substitute for a PENCIL?

Damn, that's ridiculous. I can't imagine trying to copy a clearance with that bloated POS.

Taxi clearances are easily done on paper, even if quite long. "B C A x 32R A1" beats searching for the "Alpha" key.

High tech is not always better. Special purpose apps just to write stuff down is silly. It's like writing a speech synthesizer to say hello to the person in front of you. Just say hello.
 
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MAKG1 said:
Wow, how elaborate an app do you need to substitute for a PENCIL?

Damn, that's ridiculous. I can't imagine trying to copy a clearance with that bloated POS.

Taxi clearances are easily done on paper, even if quite long. "B C A x 32R A1" beats searching for the "Alpha" key.

High tech is not always better. Special purpose apps just to write stuff down is silly. It's like writing a speech synthesizer to say hello to the person in front of you. Just say hello.
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LOL, since @Taylor Murphy is an early adopter and presumably very familiar with the app, I think a video of him inputting "Taxi to runway [insert any, unless you were thinking of a specific airport] via Bravo, Charlie and Alpha, cross runway 32R at Alpha 1" using the keyboard as an ATC-like voice gives the instruction at normal Ground speed. I figure it's about 6 seconds?
 
MAKG1 said:
Wow, how elaborate an app do you need to substitute for a PENCIL?

Damn, that's ridiculous. I can't imagine trying to copy a clearance with that bloated POS.

Taxi clearances are easily done on paper, even if quite long. "B C A x 32R A1" beats searching for the "Alpha" key.

High tech is not always better. Special purpose apps just to write stuff down is silly. It's like writing a speech synthesizer to say hello to the person in front of you. Just say hello.
Click to expand...

Exactly what I was thinking. Even if you're using a tablet based tool for charts/diagrams/nav/whatever, having to type your "scratchpad" notes seems like a waste and a distraction.
 
midlifeflyer said:
LOL, since @Taylor Murphy is an early adopter and presumably very familiar with the app, I think a video of him inputting "Taxi to runway [insert any, unless you were thinking of a specific airport] via Bravo, Charlie and Alpha, cross runway 32R at Alpha 1" using the keyboard as an ATC-like voice gives the instruction at normal Ground speed. I figure it's about 6 seconds?
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The one that would really scare me is a real IFR clearance like

123XY C KBUR dep <- h280 RV SJC VINCO PXN V107 FIM -D-> ^ 3000 -5-> 7000 120.1 5467

It seems the app is trying to write all that out longhand, which isn't necessary.
 
Taylor Murphy said:
It has been a huge help for me while taxing so I'm sure you will like it as well! Just takes a little time to get used to
Click to expand...

Something that literally got pounded into me by me by an instructor as I got close to running off the hard surface into a wet muddy area... when aircraft is in motion on the ground, focus only on that. No scribbling, no button pushing, no knob twisting, no messing with iPad.

For him and me, it's an aircraft safety thing.
 
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AggieMike88 said:
Something that literally got pounded into me by me by an instructor as I got close to running off the hard surface into a wet muddy area... when aircraft is in motion on the ground, focus only on that. No scribbling, no button pussing, no knob twisting, no messing with iPad.

For him and me, it's an aircraft safety thing.
Click to expand...

Yup. You don't even enter squawk codes while moving. That's how ground accidents happen.
 
MAKG1 said:
Wow, how elaborate an app do you need to substitute for a PENCIL?
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^^^^ THAT
A pilot friend of mine uses a flight app on his MiniPad to write down clearances. I watched him do it and realized that his much-bigger finger motions take too long, much longer than my little pencil strokes achieved by barely noticeable motion of my fingers.
It is not about the app coolness or bloatness, this is about basic bio physics.

I guess to each their own.
But do you recall the hilarious multi-billion dollar NASA project to develop a space-pen that writes in 0G? :)
And remember how the Russians solved it? :D
 
BigBadLou said:
^^^^ THAT
A pilot friend of mine uses a flight app on his MiniPad to write down clearances. I watched him do it and realized that his much-bigger finger motions take too long, much longer than my little pencil strokes achieved by barely noticeable motion of my fingers.
It is not about the app coolness or bloatness, this is about basic bio physics.

I guess to each their own.
But do you recall the hilarious multi-billion dollar NASA project to develop a space-pen that writes in 0G? :)
And remember how the Russians solved it? :D
Click to expand...

NASA did it the same way. The Space Pen was never a NASA project, nor was it anywhere near a multi-billion budget -- it was much closer to $1 million of private funding, with no NASA direction or involvement. While it makes a nice story, it's definitely untrue.
 
midlifeflyer said:
LOL, since @Taylor Murphy is an early adopter and presumably very familiar with the app, I think a video of him inputting "Taxi to runway [insert any, unless you were thinking of a specific airport] via Bravo, Charlie and Alpha, cross runway 32R at Alpha 1" using the keyboard as an ATC-like voice gives the instruction at normal Ground speed. I figure it's about 6 seconds?
Click to expand...
I found some videos on the website of inputting examples for taxing, approaches, and departures, hopefully that gives you an idea of the process

http://ffkeyboard.com/tutorial.html

Clearance_and_Taxi.mov
 
MAKG1 said:
The one that would really scare me is a real IFR clearance like

123XY C KBUR dep <- h280 RV SJC VINCO PXN V107 FIM -D-> ^ 3000 -5-> 7000 120.1 5467

It seems the app is trying to write all that out longhand, which isn't necessary.
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I wouldn't say it is writing that all out longhand since it has many keys and shortcuts programmed with common phrases. It takes a little while to learn the layout though but once you do you are good!

Here's a video that is close to the scenario you proposed

Approach_and_Tower_arrival.mov
 
Taylor Murphy said:
I found some videos on the website of inputting examples for taxing, approaches, and departures, hopefully that gives you an idea of the process

http://ffkeyboard.com/tutorial.html

Clearance_and_Taxi.mov
Click to expand...
The video show how it's done. I understood the process from the beginning. It's pretty much what I expected. What I am interest in is seeing it in practical use - copying a real clearance (the one in the video has elements missing) or taxi instruction as it is given in real time. That is decidedly not shown.

Here's an example of an IFR clearance from a video from a training organization. I don't expect you to do it since you only have limited experience at this point, but it gives you an idea what is involved for even a simple one like this one. But if someone here has the app, they can give it a try. I copied as it was given. The airports, procedure, etc are unfamiliar and I didn't do what I would ordinarily do to prepare. If you don't understand a part of it, well, neither did I. But clarifying portions with ATC is is part of the copying process, and clarifying doesn't mean "say again everything after 'cleared.'"

But here's one for you. Taxi instructions after landing at KORL. It's real. I recorded it from LiveATC in the past 15 minutes. Hopefully you are not training out of there because being familiar with the airport and having heard it 20 times before would be cheating. You have to copy the instructions using the app on the first try. As they are given, not memorize them and write them down later. The first voice you hear is the pilot saying he wants to go to Sheltair. Ready? Go! And no cheating!
http://midlifeflight.net/posted/TaxiInstruction.mp3
 
midlifeflyer said:
The video show how it's done. I understood the process from the beginning. It's pretty much what I expected. What I am interest in is seeing it in practical use - copying a real clearance (the one in the video has elements missing) or taxi instruction as it is given in real time. That is decidedly not shown.

Here's an example of an IFR clearance from a video from a training organization. I don't expect you to do it since you only have limited experience at this point, but it gives you an idea what is involved for even a simple one like this one. But if someone here has the app, they can give it a try. I copied as it was given. The airports, procedure, etc are unfamiliar and I didn't do what I would ordinarily do to prepare. If you don't understand a part of it, well, neither did I. But clarifying portions with ATC is is part of the copying process, and clarifying doesn't mean "say again everything after 'cleared.'"

But here's one for you. Taxi instructions after landing at KORL. It's real. I recorded it from LiveATC in the past 15 minutes. Hopefully you are not training out of there because being familiar with the airport and having heard it 20 times before would be cheating. You have to copy the instructions using the app on the first try. As they are given, not memorize them and write them down later. The first voice you hear is the pilot saying he wants to go to Sheltair. Ready? Go! And no cheating!
http://midlifeflight.net/posted/TaxiInstruction.mp3
Click to expand...

You do make an excellent point. I will certainly give your challenge a try! I think the obvious way user's will increase their speed with the app is to do some practice like you just suggested and thoroughly know the layout of the app. But even then, I can still see your point being valid
 
Taylor Murphy said:
Thanks! Learning in a Cessna 172!
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While you're still a student, please focus on operating the plane and not in typing things into an iPad app. No distractions from the task at hand.
 
Absolutely! I've used it more for simulator practice at the moment since a lot of it is above my skill level. But several other pilot friends have tried it and like it. I also use it whenever I am flying copilot with them and try to follow along with inputs
 
MAKG1 said:
NASA did it the same way. The Space Pen was never a NASA project, nor was it anywhere near a multi-billion budget -- it was much closer to $1 million of private funding, with no NASA direction or involvement. While it makes a nice story, it's definitely untrue.
Click to expand...
Wait, are you saying there is no room on them Ynterwebs for blatant misinformation? Boooo! :(
:D

Taylor Murphy said:
I found some videos on the website of inputting examples for taxing, approaches, and departures, hopefully that gives you an idea of the process
Clearance_and_Taxi.mov
Click to expand...
A) What is this obsolete outdated MOV file format? How do you even play it? :D
B) Looking at that keyboard that changes its layout for example for taxi instructions, that would not be easy to use if I have to search for letters while listening to the taxi clearance. Changing layouts hinder performance, not a good idea in case of transcribing radio transmissions.
C) While the implementation looks spiffy, I think this is a solution in search of a non-existent problem.
 
OK, I'll stop continuing to out this guy as a shill. You just recently soloed? And you've been waiting how long for an "aviation keyboard app" and it "finally" happened? (your title, your words) Come on. Seriously.

He's not even in the airmen database. Yeah, I know it can take a few weeks to show up, but I'm not even sure he's telling the truth there.

:no:
 
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