Autos: A family hauler

Chrysler Town & Country. I note that there are a couple of posters who disparage Chrysler products - and all I can say is that they are entitled to their opinions. My experience has been positive. MY T&C was/is Roomy, comfortable, economical and reliable. I bought one with sixtysomething thousand on odometer, and it was still going strong at around 215K when it was rear ended. I didn't hesitate to buy another. They are kind of rare, but AWD versions were offered up through 2004, IIRC. Mine was FWD only, but had traction control and did very well in snow.

Dave
 
I have driven Suburbans since l99l. MX is peanuts, dependability has been near-perfect, versatility and hauling flexibility second-to-none. Mileage is slightly less than some others, but I encourage anyone who is considering a car to calculate annual fuel cost differential rather than MPG differential to obtain a more-useful number for budgeting and selection purposes.

I would have to agree with one post that most GM's are junk, but the trucks and specifically the Tahoe, Yukon, Suburban line-up for this particular application are pretty solid.

I get 16.5-17.0 MPG consistently in my 2004 GMC Yukon 4WD with regular gas, and it'll burn E85 if you can find it somewhere. (By the way, it gets 13 on E85, so it's not worth it. But if you're dying to burn corn, I'm just sayin' it'll do it.) It has the mid-sized E85 capable V8 engine.

It's not quite as long as the Suburban/GMC Yukon XL, so not super-difficult to park if in tight quarters like a parking garage, but otherwise has a great load-hauling and people-comfort mix.

They're littering car lots nationwide CHEAP, as people freak out about MPG, and being "green", who buy Prius' that are three times the price even with tax rebates.

It's a head vs. heart thing, when instead of doing the actual cost analysis, as mentioned here already, they go for the MPG sticker.

I picked this thing up for a song this February. And now I have leather seats, butt-warmers (ha!), Bose stereo system with XM, an enormous amount of "personal space" in the driver's seat (haha!), unparalleled forward visibility over the top of most other cars, automatic two-zone heating/cooling, power everything -- including a seat with more adjustments than I'll ever need, automatic 4WD mode (don't like it... I'll handle the shifting, thank you!), and well... it's loaded. Some of these things are truck characteristics, and I've owned three different trucks, but adding on the fancy interior adds something to the whole deal.

Very posh. And, wicked cheap on the used market.

My dad has owned a late-90's Tahoe (too short for my tastes... back end gets squirrelly in snow/ice, but of course, that can be wicked fun in an empty parking lot... especially since his also has glass-packs on the straight exhaust pipes that came with it... it barks and spins donuts, so it's just GRAND in snow, but for most folks, that's not the goal... heh...) and a massive early 90's Suburban with the heavy-duty 3/4 ton axles and frame, and tow-package on it -- which has the 5.8L V8 engine.

Now THAT beast only gets 13 MPG no matter how fast or slow you drive it, and you can watch the gas gauge going down, and also hit your check-card's single-purchase authorization limit filling its oversized gas tank, but it'll also crawl over anything in its path in 4WD-LOW, and I've had to use it on USFS Service Roads taking radio gear to mountaintops... it hauled two complete 19" rack cabinets with solid doors, all the radio gear, all the test gear and tower-climbing gear and tools, plus two of us, up there to work, in mud so slippery I almost fell down getting out of it.

So, there is a limit to how far back in years you can go before you get into the V8 engines without any computers really assisting them to get up into the 16-18 MPG range.

Anyway... just thoughts. Do some math on how much money can you save for buying extra gas for one, by finding a wicked deal on a big fat cushy "out of vogue with the kids" Yukon or Suburban. Might be worth shopping around.

The systems on the thing are relatively simple, and there's actually enough room under the hood to get at the stuff that needs done, if you're a do-it-yourself mechanic of any sort. Try finding the oil filter on an MDX without a lift.

Big-ass cushy gas-guzzlin' truck for driving around town... and a big-ass cushy 4-place single gas-guzzling truck for bombin' through the sky! Now y'all know why I'm a 182 driver... I suppose. And why I'm jealous of a friend who's workin' on buying a 206. :wink2:
 
Chrysler Town & Country. I note that there are a couple of posters who disparage Chrysler products - and all I can say is that they are entitled to their opinions. My experience has been positive. MY T&C was/is Roomy, comfortable, economical and reliable. I bought one with sixtysomething thousand on odometer, and it was still going strong at around 215K when it was rear ended. I didn't hesitate to buy another. They are kind of rare, but AWD versions were offered up through 2004, IIRC. Mine was FWD only, but had traction control and did very well in snow.

Dave

It is allways worthwhile to look at what is used as a taxicab. There are plenty of T+Cs out there, not so many Odysseys or whatever that Toyota abomination is called.
 
Chrysler Town & Country. I note that there are a couple of posters who disparage Chrysler products - and all I can say is that they are entitled to their opinions. My experience has been positive. MY T&C was/is Roomy, comfortable, economical and reliable. I bought one with sixtysomething thousand on odometer, and it was still going strong at around 215K when it was rear ended. I didn't hesitate to buy another. They are kind of rare, but AWD versions were offered up through 2004, IIRC. Mine was FWD only, but had traction control and did very well in snow.

Dave

I respect NO person that chooses/has the desire to drive a mini-van, let alone chrysler.
 
I get 16/18 in town and 20/24 on the highway on regular/premium. Want to talk about the Suburban?

either my FIL has a larger engine version or drives much more aggressive than you. either is very possible. His computer was showing 15.1 mpg on the highway during our trip over the holidays
 
either my FIL has a larger engine version or drives much more aggressive than you. either is very possible. His computer was showing 15.1 mpg on the highway during our trip over the holidays

The first one I had was an '01 and had a 240 hp engine. The current one is an '06 with the 260 hp engine. I drive it like I fly - full throttle for take off and as fast as I can go in cruise without damaging it. Just went out to check and the computer says 16.7 since I filled up with 87 about 52 miles ago that have been all town driving. I can easily get 22+ on the highway and have done Sioux Center, IA to Nashville, TN with one refuel(850 miles).

The audio system in the thing is nice too. The kids can watch a move and listen to it on wireless headphones while the adults listen to something else up front. I have listed to the Incredibles and Toy Story one hundred times each in my suburban. Makes a guy want to jerk the wheel into a bridge abutment.
 
HAHAHAHAHA Chrysler... thats a good one

Or Dodge. My 2000 Durango was in the shop 22 times and blew a tranny in its first 48 months/48,0000 miles of life. What a piece of junk.

Wife's 02 Chrysler 300M has 101,000 miles on it and has been in the shop a grand total of once for a stuck thermostat, since I was traveling at the time and couldn't do it myself. All other wear and maintenance items I handle myself. My '97 Dodge Ram 2500 CTD has 168,000 miles and I anticipate another 100k. It did suffer from a tranny failure at 125,000 (known Dodge/CTD problem, but this rebuilt tranny is good for up to 500HP).

Neither of those fit the OPs request, but just had to say that the Chrysler/Dodge experiences aren't ALL bad. On the other hand, the 300M did replace a 2000 Durango that was on it's way toward behaving like Ken's, I think.
 
HAHAHAHAHA Chrysler... thats a good one
I have 175,000 miles on my 1998 Chrysler Concorde. Drives great, no rust on the body, leather interior is in good shape. The only thing that doesn't work is the air conditioner because I'm too lazy to fix it.

My '98 Chevy S10 is pushing 250,000 miles and everything works, except for the mirror, which I busted off on the side of the garage last week.
 
Personally I own a Jetta Wolfsburg. For the family hauler (and the wife's regular driver) we have a Ford Escape. 10 years old and not a wrong buy. We're getting a Q7 to replace it with, but that's because 2 kids + 2 dogs + camper is too much for a 4 banger Escape and the Audi seats more comfortably.

Premium only, unless you get the diesel.
 
Forester. More room than the Outback, that great AWD, and a boxer engine that you can put on a homebuilt airplane later.

I don't know about the newest models but it used to be that extra room was an optical illusion. The outback and forester had very similar interior volume due to the longer wheelbase of the outback.
 
I would have to agree with one post that most GM's are junk, but the trucks and specifically the Tahoe, Yukon, Suburban line-up for this particular application are pretty solid.

I get 16.5-17.0 MPG consistently in my 2004 GMC Yukon 4WD with regular gas, and it'll burn E85 if you can find it somewhere. (By the way, it gets 13 on E85, so it's not worth it. But if you're dying to burn corn, I'm just sayin' it'll do it.) It has the mid-sized E85 capable V8 engine.

It's not quite as long as the Suburban/GMC Yukon XL, so not super-difficult to park if in tight quarters like a parking garage, but otherwise has a great load-hauling and people-comfort mix.

They're littering car lots nationwide CHEAP, as people freak out about MPG, and being "green", who buy Prius' that are three times the price even with tax rebates.

It's a head vs. heart thing, when instead of doing the actual cost analysis, as mentioned here already, they go for the MPG sticker.

Well Wayne seems like a sharp guy ;) but I fail to see any cost analysis that would put a Chevy Suburban/Excursion/similar on top of most of the other options mentioned In this thread unless that analysis was performed by a salesman trying to send you off the lot with one.

Unless you truly need eight seats and room for your three newfies too.

Yukon/Expedition and those giant toyota suvs aren't much better.

Perhaps it is the excellent warranty coverage offered by the big three? :rofl:

On similar threads involving things that fly it is: buy for your 80% mission and rent larger for odd occasions that you need it. Por que different for wheels?
 
Unless you truly need eight seats and room for your three newfies too.

I fly around in the C-182 with three seats empty and nothing in the cargo area all the time burning 11-13 GPH. Heh. The Yukon's cheap.

Seriously though, it's about the asking prices... you could pick them up in February, especially since the market hadn't started back up yet, for thousands below any book value you could find, including Wholesale. Maybe not now. I stole the thing.

The Jeep got 18 MPG consistently, this gets 16-18 depending on how I drive it. So no real budgetary difference there.

Obviously since the OP has an Outback already, there'd be a gas station sticker shock factor.

Insurance is piddly on it too. Yukons/Suburbans generally come away from fender-benders with scratches on their bumpers.... while the other guy is handed a check for his totaled car.

And, um... the Yukon only has five seats in the barc-o-lounger leather stadium-seating version. Five really comfy seats. :D

My wife's barbershop quartet has figured this out, and when they have out of town gigs, I'm stuck driving the VW TDI Jetta Wagon.

Prior to the Yukon, I was a Jeep Cherokee (original) fan. The Yukon was a "treat" this year after 10 years and 180,000 miles on the Jeep. It sat parked one year (2002) or it'd be 200,000. I drive 20K a year, for my commute.

I gave the 2000 Jeep Cherokee Classic to a sister who was having job problems in NYC. 6 months later, it was totaled while it was parked in Brooklyn by a Yellow Cab/Limo three-car pileup that shoved it into a BMW.

Jeep sandwich, and sent 4 people to the hospital. Photos were crazy. Sister was woken up about 5 AM by the NYPD saying she'd better come take a look at her vehicle.

You couldn't convince me to live in NYC for anything, 'cept maybe a jet to fly. :D How anyone can stand that level of crowding, is beyond me.

My sister's "guy" (it's a NY thing, I hear), got it barely driveable again for her. Poor kid. But at least she has a job now. Indestructible, those things. Had mine off-road... a lot.

The Yukon's already been off-road a few times already. It handles that well, but with more body roll than the Jeep ever had.

A full set of BFG 70,000 mile warranty road tires for it, did make my wallet wimper a little bit, though.
 
Does it have a surprising amount of legroom like I was told? I have to try some on for size to decide if I can ever drive anything recent.

I tried a Lincoln Aviator (Ford Explorer) and THAT wasn't big enough.

Thinking Toyota FJ Cruser or ....
I'll be sitting in a 2011 Forester at the DC auto show in a few weeks, I'll let you know.

My 2001 has decent legroom (I'm 6'3") and a TON of headroom.
 
I drive it like I fly - full throttle for take off and as fast as I can go in cruise without damaging it.

Unfortunately, my Jeep Wrangler with oversized tires 'climbs' like an overloaded 152 on a hot day and 'cruises' like an AgCat (makes lots of noise, burns lots of gas, but doesn't climb well unless preceded by a steep dive). Good thing is that it cuts through rough terrain like a B-17 (it'll take a beating and as long as you can keep power to one of the engines (wheels), it'll probably get you home).
 
I don't know about the newest models but it used to be that extra room was an optical illusion. The outback and forester had very similar interior volume due to the longer wheelbase of the outback.

In terms of cubic feet, yes... but the Forester is significantly taller which means that you can get bigger objects (like a dog crate) in it.
 
In terms of cubic feet, yes... but the Forester is significantly taller which means that you can get bigger objects (like a dog crate) in it.

The new Outback has porked up quite a bit, looking from the outside it seems to have gained some height in the process.
 
The new Outback has porked up quite a bit, looking from the outside it seems to have gained some height in the process.

It has. We've already taken the new Outback for a spin. You can clear most curbs with the new Outback.

RE: The CRV comment, the CRV offers us little in terms of increased cabin volume, which is what this game is about. One other option is to buy another Outback and leave a Pack-and-Play and other frequently used items "in region" (one cache at my mother's, one at Jessie's mother's, and one at Jessie's father's). Cost would be about $1500 in the worst case.

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
One other option is to buy another Outback and leave a Pack-and-Play and other frequently used items "in region" (one cache at my mother's, one at Jessie's mother's, and one at Jessie's father's). Cost would be about $1500 in the worst case.

If it is just about hauling 'kids stuff' and not additional bodies, rooftop boxes can be a good investment.
 
If it is just about hauling 'kids stuff' and not additional bodies, rooftop boxes can be a good investment.

Each grandparent is outfitted with a cache in my case. Of course we have to fly everywhere.

But the rooftop carrier is a great idea IMO and something we do for our adult toys when we need to.

Buy what you want but we chose to not haul a lot of empty cubic space and unused seats around 75% of the time when you don't need it. Gas costs too much.
 
Something about the 2005 and newer Ford Excursion and Expedition is causing the engine to fail sooner for that class than what I see as "normal" as a seller of recycled engines and transmissions.

The 5.4L engine has had a pretty good upward spike in sales and stayed steady from there. I am constantly seeking these vehicles at the auctions and the sale of the engine typically is a $2500 invoice with a 1yr warranty.

Compared to the venerable 350 (5.7L) engine in Wayne's suburban, I typiecally sell for $1000-1100. The 5.3 in the newer Suburbans, Silverados, and Tahoe/Yukon? Very low demand and average $500-600 with 1yr warranty.


As you guys investigate vehicles, a good way to gauge longevity is to speak with an auto recycler like me. We can answer questions on how frequently particular engines and transmissions are being requested. And our business is very much a Econ101 situation where price follows demand and supply.

There are often interesting situations where in the same vehicle, one main component such as engine, transmission, or rear differential is a high demand short supply item, but the other component rarely fails and I can't give it away. A good example of this is the Chevy Cavalier. Those engines I have strong demand for and sell each one I get within 60-90 days of buying the car. But the transmission never fails and even at a $150 with a lifetime warranty, I still have a surplus.
 
If it is just about hauling 'kids stuff' and not additional bodies, rooftop boxes can be a good investment.

I've looked at the roof-tops (I think I mentioned them in my earlier post), and they are indeed a viable option.

It's about multi-year planning. We (hope) to have our second child within 3 years of our first child. So, within 3.5 years, we hope to be:

Two 30 somethings
1 3 year old
1 newborn

I will, most likely, still be in Richmond in 3.5 years.

So, four people, 500 miles one-way, four times a year. Subaru plus rooftop is probably a stretch. Rooftop box also means going to the hitch for the bicycles. (Cycling is big in our family)

It will be a fun weekend behind the wheel!

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
Did the Ford Excursion and Expedition outsell the Suburban in those years?
 
So, four people, 500 miles one-way, four times a year. Subaru plus rooftop is probably a stretch. Rooftop box also means going to the hitch for the bicycles. (Cycling is big in our family)

Right now, I stuff
- my fat self
- my mother in law
- my skinny wife
- one 3 year old
- one 5 year old

...into a Honda Accord. Not much room for 'stuff' at that point and the space in the back between the car-seats is not particularly comfortable. The problem is really how much extra space do you want to haul around the remaining 90% of the trips.

I am rather a bit behind on my car buying schedule than ahead. As my wife doesn't want to get caught dead in a minivan, the next step up will probably be either a used E-class wagon (with the back-facing third row, kids love it!) or a midsize SUV.
 
I have put about 170k miles on a Subaru Outback so far. In that time, the car has broken down only once, and that one was entirely avoidable (nanny didn't notice the signs of a dead alternator before heading out on a 230mile trip). It did have the leaking headgaskets (standard issue on that model year) and required new cam oil-seals a while ago. Other than that, the car has been bulletproof.

They still do that head gasket thing? I thought they learned how to build the engine so it wouldn't do that back in 1976. My 1974 Subaru would blow them every 50,000 miles. And, as it was a sleeved cylinder engine with the sleeves on crush washers deep in the block, that meant a total teardown and rebuild each time. It was ready for its third when I sold it (to a former Subaru mechanic who should have known better).
 
My suggestion would be to try sticking with the Outback you currently have. Reason:

1) You already own it, and it doesn't cost you anything to keep it
2) If you don't like it and find it inadequate, you can always then decide to change to something else

And if you need to carry more than the Outback can carry, buy yourself a small enclosed utility trailer. Compared to the cost of a new vehicle, they're cheap... That way, you're only carrying around the extra weight and having a larger vehicle (and its respective parking limitations) when you absolutely have to...

It's all about cost vs convenience though... It's more convenient to have a Suburban or 4-door pickup, but you pay for it with the reduced fuel economy. With a smaller vehicle like the Outback, you might find situations where you need to pick up something on the way home from work, but it won't fit in it, so you need to drive home, pick up the trailer, and go back to the store. There are also some things that you might buy that you wouldn't want to put inside your Outback or Suburban anyway, so a pickup is more appropriate. I have had things that I didn't even want to put in the back of my pickup, so I also have a utility trailer...
 
They still do that head gasket thing? I thought they learned how to build the engine so it wouldn't do that back in 1976.
Then I guess you've never owned an '82 - '85 Cadillac. :incazzato:

My 1974 Subaru would blow them every 50,000 miles.
Our '72 Chevy Vega only lasted 35,000; our '84 Sedan deVille 80,000 (and the dealer told us that was impressive!).
 
Andrew:

Get something smaller/more fuel efficient/what you want for around town. Rent something larger for the long trips.

Seriously. Especially since gas prices are likely to go through the roof (meaning large vehicle rentals will be cheap).
 
They still do that head gasket thing? I thought they learned how to build the engine so it wouldn't do that back in 1976. My 1974 Subaru would blow them every 50,000 miles. And, as it was a sleeved cylinder engine with the sleeves on crush washers deep in the block, that meant a total teardown and rebuild each time. It was ready for its third when I sold it (to a former Subaru mechanic who should have known better).

They had learned it until the 2000 model year, '01 and '02 started to leak at about 100k (it's not 'blowing a headgasket' in the oil in coolant or white smoke sense, they just start to drip coolant to the outside while warm). Subaru extended warranty for that that problem to 100k provided you added a small bottle of fairy-dust if you ever replaced the coolant. Subsequent model years used a slightly thicker gasket and dont have the problem, maybe, hopefully ;) . I was outside of that warranty:incazzato:, total cost of the headgasket job seemed reasonable for a two-head design.
 
Our '72 Chevy Vega only lasted 35,000; our '84 Sedan deVille 80,000 (and the dealer told us that was impressive!).
OMG you got more than 25,000 out of a Vega. You did well.

That aluminum to Steel bolt-on meant electrolysis of the bolts. The exhaust was another steel to aluminum affair that always failed. What a piece of c_ap!
 
Last edited:
They had learned it until the 2000 model year, '01 and '02 started to leak at about 100k (it's not 'blowing a headgasket' in the oil in coolant or white smoke sense, they just start to drip coolant to the outside while warm). Subaru extended warranty for that that problem to 100k provided you added a small bottle of fairy-dust if you ever replaced the coolant. Subsequent model years used a slightly thicker gasket and dont have the problem, maybe, hopefully ;) . I was outside of that warranty:incazzato:, total cost of the headgasket job seemed reasonable for a two-head design.

It's not a problem any more (my sister has a '07). Ours, an '03, is the last year off the line with the problem. We had the head gaskets done at 55k, and the problem reappeared 30k later. Now we do the fairy dust once a quarter or so. It's annoying, but not a deal breaker.

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
Andrew, don't go overboard. A Honda CRV will serve very nicely (one size down from Pilot).

Good idea the CRV is a great car. I think Andrew may need a bit more room inside though given what he drives around with pre kid.

I respect NO person that chooses/has the desire to drive a mini-van, let alone chrysler.

What are you Austin? 15 now 16? Give it sometime.

The new Outback has porked up quite a bit, looking from the outside it seems to have gained some height in the process.


Ha Porked up! a Porked up Outback for Porkey ROLMAO

..... One other option is to buy another Outback and leave a Pack-and-Play and other frequently used items "in region" (one cache at my mother's, one at Jessie's mother's, and one at Jessie's father's). Cost would be about $1500 in the worst case.

Cheers,

-Andrew

You fool have you learned nothing from me. The Grand folks will be so happy to see the grand kids they will buy the damn pak -n- play. They will buy the car seat, they will buy the diaper table just to get the grand kid up there more. You on the other hand will become totally meaningless.....Andrew who oh yea my grandchilds father.
 
OMG you got more than 25,000 out of a Vega. You did well.

That aluminum to Steel bolt-on meant electrolysis of the bolts. The exhaust was another steel to aluminum affair that always failed. What a piece of c_ap!

If you drove long enough to experience electrolysis you were a super-human. The AL would simply melt well before that.

GM eventually did enough recalls that you could get the Pontiac-touted "Iron Duke" engine.

What was scandalous was that they made the engine recall "silent" so you'd only get a new engine if you screamed loudly enough. They hoped you'd just eat the cost and go away.

Can't imagine why they were destined for bankruptcy.
 
Mind if I ask what you paid for your truck ?

I just checked cars.com and they were around 15k - 17k with around 80,000 miles... I am starting to do a little shopping and am open to brand , size etc.

Thanks...


I would have to agree with one post that most GM's are junk, but the trucks and specifically the Tahoe, Yukon, Suburban line-up for this particular application are pretty solid.

I get 16.5-17.0 MPG consistently in my 2004 GMC Yukon 4WD with regular gas, and it'll burn E85 if you can find it somewhere. (By the way, it gets 13 on E85, so it's not worth it. But if you're dying to burn corn, I'm just sayin' it'll do it.) It has the mid-sized E85 capable V8 engine.

It's not quite as long as the Suburban/GMC Yukon XL, so not super-difficult to park if in tight quarters like a parking garage, but otherwise has a great load-hauling and people-comfort mix.

They're littering car lots nationwide CHEAP, as people freak out about MPG, and being "green", who buy Prius' that are three times the price even with tax rebates.

It's a head vs. heart thing, when instead of doing the actual cost analysis, as mentioned here already, they go for the MPG sticker.

I picked this thing up for a song this February. And now I have leather seats, butt-warmers (ha!), Bose stereo system with XM, an enormous amount of "personal space" in the driver's seat (haha!), unparalleled forward visibility over the top of most other cars, automatic two-zone heating/cooling, power everything -- including a seat with more adjustments than I'll ever need, automatic 4WD mode (don't like it... I'll handle the shifting, thank you!), and well... it's loaded. Some of these things are truck characteristics, and I've owned three different trucks, but adding on the fancy interior adds something to the whole deal.

Very posh. And, wicked cheap on the used market.

My dad has owned a late-90's Tahoe (too short for my tastes... back end gets squirrelly in snow/ice, but of course, that can be wicked fun in an empty parking lot... especially since his also has glass-packs on the straight exhaust pipes that came with it... it barks and spins donuts, so it's just GRAND in snow, but for most folks, that's not the goal... heh...) and a massive early 90's Suburban with the heavy-duty 3/4 ton axles and frame, and tow-package on it -- which has the 5.8L V8 engine.

Now THAT beast only gets 13 MPG no matter how fast or slow you drive it, and you can watch the gas gauge going down, and also hit your check-card's single-purchase authorization limit filling its oversized gas tank, but it'll also crawl over anything in its path in 4WD-LOW, and I've had to use it on USFS Service Roads taking radio gear to mountaintops... it hauled two complete 19" rack cabinets with solid doors, all the radio gear, all the test gear and tower-climbing gear and tools, plus two of us, up there to work, in mud so slippery I almost fell down getting out of it.

So, there is a limit to how far back in years you can go before you get into the V8 engines without any computers really assisting them to get up into the 16-18 MPG range.

Anyway... just thoughts. Do some math on how much money can you save for buying extra gas for one, by finding a wicked deal on a big fat cushy "out of vogue with the kids" Yukon or Suburban. Might be worth shopping around.

The systems on the thing are relatively simple, and there's actually enough room under the hood to get at the stuff that needs done, if you're a do-it-yourself mechanic of any sort. Try finding the oil filter on an MDX without a lift.

Big-ass cushy gas-guzzlin' truck for driving around town... and a big-ass cushy 4-place single gas-guzzling truck for bombin' through the sky! Now y'all know why I'm a 182 driver... I suppose. And why I'm jealous of a friend who's workin' on buying a 206. :wink2:
 
Sport Utilities are neither.

A Toyota Sienna with AWD will solve all problems. It will haul more, more easily, than an SUV. The split/fold/tumble 3rd row is easy to use, and a legitimate seating arrangement for adults should you need the room. Mid row seats pop out without undue effort, creating a cavern inside. Power sliding doors and power liftgate seem bogus, until you are carrying an infant through the mall parking lot in a rainstorm. BTDT. Avg 23mpg all around, 26 hwy, maybe 19 city in my experience. Comfortable. Handles just fine. I'm about to roll 100k miles with the only major repair being a c/v joint. Trouble free. Comfortable. Roof rack. Fits a smoker with ease. Good sound system.

Only people who lack confidence in their manhood are afraid of minivans.
 
Sport Utilities are neither.

A Toyota Sienna with AWD will solve all problems. It will haul more, more easily, than an SUV. The split/fold/tumble 3rd row is easy to use, and a legitimate seating arrangement for adults should you need the room. Mid row seats pop out without undue effort, creating a cavern inside. Power sliding doors and power liftgate seem bogus, until you are carrying an infant through the mall parking lot in a rainstorm. BTDT. Avg 23mpg all around, 26 hwy, maybe 19 city in my experience. Comfortable. Handles just fine. I'm about to roll 100k miles with the only major repair being a c/v joint. Trouble free. Comfortable. Roof rack. Fits a smoker with ease. Good sound system.

Snow handling? I'm talking Hanover snow, not Northern NJ (present storm excluded). That's my biggest concern, to date, with minivans.

Only people who lack confidence in their manhood are afraid of minivans.

Precision strike!

B-2%20Spirit%20stealth%20bomber%20dropping%20Mk.82%20bombs%5B3%5D


Cheers,

-Andrew
 
Snow handling? I'm talking Hanover snow, not Northern NJ (present storm excluded). That's my biggest concern, to date, with minivans.

The Siena used to be available with AWD. You loose the folding third-row and legroom in the back though.
 
The Siena used to be available with AWD. You loose the folding third-row and legroom in the back though.

Not true. I have one in my garage as we speak, AWD, folding 3rd row. 2004 model. The newest (3rd) generation Siennas (2010+) also have them with the AWD.

Handling in VT and NH snowstorms has been fine, even with std issue run-flat tires. I'm not concerned at all driving it in ski season -- it's not like I need to take it off-road. Highway ride is MUCH better than an SUV. More driveable around town too, like in Babies R Us parking lots....
 
Not true. I have one in my garage as we speak, AWD, folding 3rd row. 2004 model. The newest (3rd) generation Siennas (2010+) also have them with the AWD..

Interesting. Borrowed an older one from a neighbor a couple of years ago and you could only fold it flat and it wouldn't do its disappearing thing.
 
Back
Top