Auto vs. Aircraft Engines - Some Musings

N801BH said:
To be accurate since we are comparing apples to apples posting the "true" weight is important. The 277 lbs figure is on the light side and that is for a stripped down 0-320. Add all the stuff that it takes for that 277+ lb 0-320 to run and post that figure. So, lets see. add the starter, intake tubes, carb, airbox, filter, exhaust system, mags, wiring harness, sparkplugs, brackets to hold on the alternator, alternator itself, all the cooling shrouds, baffles, oil filter, lord mounts, flywheel, ring gear, oil cooler, its brackets, and lines ...............................................

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That same thing applies to the Ford, too. Starter, alternator, flywheel; all that stuff raises the weight. And a prop and governor have to be added to either the aircraft or auto engine, too, so there's no advantage one over the other.

Weights of aircraft engines and their accessories can be found on the TCDS section of the FAA website. The weight of an O-320 includes many of the accessories you listed above. It's not a bare short-block engine weight. An O-320-E2D weighs 249 lb with the mags, and will include intake tubes,. sparkplugs, wiring harness.

Dan
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tonycondon said:
lol actually Beech did make a prototype car but it never got to production.

SIA-BeechcraftPlainsman_lede.jpg


http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2007/09/09/sia-flashback-beechcraft-plainsman/
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And Lycomings were originally converted auto engines.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
And Lycomings were originally converted auto engines.
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Not really. They built auto engines but their first aircraft engine was a radial. Wikipedia has this to say:

"In 1910, the company supplied its first automobile engine to Velie[9], and during the early post-World-War-I era, the company was a major supplier to Auburn (which produced the Auburn, Cord, and Duesenberg lines). Eventually Lycoming became Auburn's principal supplier, and in 1927 Errett Lobban Cord bought the company[9], placing it under his Auburn Manufacturing umbrella group. In 1929, Lycoming produced its first aviation engine, the nine-cylinder R-680 radial.[1] This was a fairly successful design, and was used widely in light aircraft, including Cord's Travel Air."

No doubt they used their auto engine experience and maybe even some parts but I don't see that their engines were converted auto engines. I did see a Lycoming in a Cord in the Palm Springs museum and it looked like an air-cooled opposed engine.

Edit: I see, in Wiki, that Cords started with an inline 8 Lycoming and then used a Lyc V-8. There was a replica Cord 810 built in the '60s that used a Corvair drivetrain, which is probably what I saw under that Cord in Palm Springs. Got fooled, I did. Corvairs were aircooled opposed sixes. Some of them are flying in homebuilts.

Dan
 
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bigred177 said:
Nah, it's only half a ton. But that IS with the starter, flywheel, radiator and full of oil (for those wondering). ;)

Slap it on something like an AN-2 that has useful load to spare. Might be fun.
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Well, it'd end up weighing more than half a ton. As I recall the 6BT in my Ram weighed about that, and then you'd have to add the prop and governor.

Thing is, even my version had only 325 hp. That's not a lot of power for the weight. I don't think it'd be particularly fun stock. Crank up the boost a bunch and get 600 hp, sure, that's more like it. But at that point who knows how long the engine will last.
 
I bet you could squeeze a good, reliable 450-500 hp out of it. And you don't have to run jet-A or Avgas. Get some red diesel and go haha.

A 12v wouldn't even really need the boost messed with that much. Just play with the fueling on the pump.

Not practical or ever gonna happen, but a fun thought.
 
bigred177 said:
I bet you could squeeze a good, reliable 450-500 hp out of it. And you don't have to run jet-A or Avgas. Get some red diesel and go haha.

A 12v wouldn't even really need the boost messed with that much. Just play with the fueling on the pump.

Not practical or ever gonna happen, but a fun thought.
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The advantage would be that you could run it on Jet-A, since diesel is not available at most airports.

Getting 450-500 hp out of any of the 6BT series may be simple as far as chipping it or messing with the fuel some, but saying it'll be reliable like that disagrees with what the Dodge dealers told me they saw in their maintenance departments. A lot of people thought the same thing and then found not only were they wrong, but it voided their warranties.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
The advantage would be that you could run it on Jet-A, since diesel is not available at most airports.

Getting 450-500 hp out of any of the 6BT series may be simple as far as chipping it or messing with the fuel some, but saying it'll be reliable like that disagrees with what the Dodge dealers told me they saw in their maintenance departments. A lot of people thought the same thing and then found not only were they wrong, but it voided their warranties.
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Hmm. Did they say what happened to the exactly? I really am curious because I have one and may need to turn it back :eek:. I don't know about any of the computer stuff, but it seems like the mechanical 12v would be hard to kill. I know a lot of people do because they don't watch their EGTs and end up melting a piston, but the only other thing I could think of is killing the transmission.

If you were to just turn up the fuel, block the wastegate, and put a little bigger injectors on it that would create some serious gains. That wouldn't even come close to needing stronger head bolts or the like. I hope their reliability isn't affected just by doing that little bit.
 
bigred177 said:
Hmm. Did they say what happened to the exactly? I really am curious because I have one and may need to turn it back :eek:. I don't know about any of the computer stuff, but it seems like the mechanical 12v would be hard to kill. I know a lot of people do because they don't watch their EGTs and end up melting a piston, but the only other thing I could think of is killing the transmission.

If you were to just turn up the fuel, block the wastegate, and put a little bigger injectors on it that would create some serious gains. That wouldn't even come close to needing stronger head bolts or the like. I hope their reliability isn't affected just by doing that little bit.
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It was engine failures, but I don't know what exactly. Head bolts may not need replacing at those power levels, but that doens't mean that the pistons and rods will survive. More power still means higher pressures and temperatures in the cylinder, which puts more stress on all components.
 
bigred177 said:
If you were to just turn up the fuel, block the wastegate, and put a little bigger injectors on it that would create some serious gains. That wouldn't even come close to needing stronger head bolts or the like. I hope their reliability isn't affected just by doing that little bit.
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Its worth saying again... the factor here isn't the power as much as the HEAT generated that has to be dealt with. If you can cool the engine adequately the added power generation wouldn't be nearly as rough on the engine.
 
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