Auto fuel STC's, are they endanger

Is MoGas(Auto Fuel) available in your state?

  • Yes

    Votes: 12 80.0%

  • No

    Votes: 3 20.0%
  • Total voters
    15
  • Poll closed .
Dean

Dean

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Dean
With the recent passage of several states "Ethanol bills" that require auto fuels to contain at least 10% ethanol, could/would/should the FAA revoke auto fuel STC's? I have heard talk that the FAA may consider revoking them for fear of Ethanol contamination to airplanes.
Can you still get MoGas(Auto Fuel) in your state?
 
While Iowa is a leader in ethanol production, the legislature has managed to keep its head on enough to realize it is not and can not be an absolute requirement. Lets hope it stays that way.
 
Ethanol is a break even fuel source and a sham. I hope someone realizes this someday.
 
Well, to be fair, it does serve to drive up the cost of operating and maintaining your motor vehicles, while at the same time consuming as much energy as it produces and driving up the cost of beef.

Wait, none of that is good, is it?

Dang.
 
oh dear, we've gotten Spike started on Ethanol... :)
 
No, Tony, I never stopped. Ethanol is a very good energy source when derived from appropriate feed stocks. Corn is not an appropriate feed stock for ethanol. I am offended at paying more money, for less energy, when the echange is not inherently beneficial as a system.

I suppose I'd feel differently if I were an exec at ADM. But I ain't.
 
Dean said:
could/would/should the FAA revoke auto fuel STC's?
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Why the hell would I want the FAA to revoke an STC? It's an added value to plane, and the lack of ethanol-free mogas may be temporary while the revocation would be permanent.

Instead of draconian measures like that, properly educate pilots about the importance of knowing the dangers of ethanol in aircraft and how to test for it.

Revoking? Ridiculous.
 
Chairboy said:
Why the hell would I want the FAA to revoke an STC? It's an added value to plane, and the lack of ethanol-free mogas may be temporary while the revocation would be permanent.

Instead of draconian measures like that, properly educate pilots about the importance of knowing the dangers of ethanol in aircraft and how to test for it.

Revoking? Ridiculous.
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Is ethanol free MoGas going to be temporary? Under Missouri's new law it wont be. What we know as MoGas and Farm Gas today is going to be a thing of the past. So if there is no ethanol free Auto Fuel available, your STC is not worth the paper it is written on. So I don't see it being an added value to an aircraft when the time comes. It is going to be 100LL all the way until they come up with an alternative for that.
 
Prphobition "permanently" outlawed alcohol, and some planes may fly places that don't add ethanol to gas. Again, why the HELL should the STC be _revoked_?
 
Because sooner or later Someone's airplane is going to fall out of the sky. Mrs. Someone and her shyster lawyer are going to sue the FAA, saying that its the FAA's fault for allowing Mr. Someone to put tainted gasoline into his airplane. The two of them will probably sue lots of other people while they're eat it, but the FAA, which doesn't like to be sued (since it takes they're small army of lawyers away from the all-important task of persecuting airmen) will then cancel STCs in order to deal with the "problem". All because ADM bought themselves a nifty set of politicians. Your government at work.
 
Chairboy said:
some planes may fly places that don't add ethanol to gas. Again, why the HELL should the STC be _revoked_?
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Sooner or later all states will be required to have ethanol blended fuels, there are 4 states already that have passed state legislation requiring it. I am not saying the STC should be revoked, I am just saying it may come down to it if someone puts ethanol blended fuel in an airplane with an auto fuel STC and crashes it. Even if the fuel was not the cause of the crash, it will open the door for the FAA to take some type of action. I don't see the gas companies making special aviation 87 octane just for a few owners that still use it. I see 87 octane avgas becoming part of our aviation history. Someday you can sit around the hangar and talk about the good old days when you could buy avgas for less than $4.00 a gallon.
 
You ask if they should be revoked, and I answered "no". I stand by that.
 
Ethanol is a joke. I'm fifty miles from Atlanta and forced to buy it up here. The station where I get most of my fuel was forced to spend thousands to drain, clean and inspect their tank before refilling it with ethanol. Oh yeah, it's very cost-effective. :rolleyes:

I feel badly for the auto-STC guys who are stuck in the middle of this fiasco.
 
Some planes run on 85 % ethanol. If fuel is the deciding factor change the engine to run on ethanol.

Dan
 
smigaldi said:
Is there anyone to update STC'd mogas engines so that they can use ethanol based fuels? It mostly is an issue of gaskets isn't?
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I thought it was an issue of less available energy per volume (you'd have to re-do all the performance charts for every different percentage of ethanol) as well as the fact that ethanol can absorb water leading to further reduced performance.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I thought it was an issue of less available energy per volume (you'd have to re-do all the performance charts for every different percentage of ethanol) as well as the fact that ethanol can absorb water leading to further reduced performance.
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I'd heard what Scott's alluding to; that the alcohol damages some of the non-metallic parts, e.g. gaskets, hoses, and whatnot.

EAA says:
The addition of ethanol, however, creates chemical properties that are harmful to aircraft engines and fueling systems. It is critical for aircraft owners using auto fuel to know if the gasoline being used in their aircraft is pure. Some states do not require the marking of gas pumps indicating ethanol is present in the fuel, so EAA recommends that all auto fuel be tested before fueling an aircraft.
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See http://www.aviationfuel.org/saibs/10_27_06%20-%20CE-07-06.pdf for additional detailed information
Automobile gasoline containing alcohol is not
allowed to be used in aircraft for the following
reasons:
• The addition of alcohol to automobile gasoline adversely affects the volatility of the fuel, which could cause vapor lock.
• Alcohol present in automobile gasoline is corrosive and not compatible with the rubber seals and other materials used in aircraft, which could lead to fuel system deterioration and malfunction.
• Alcohol present in automobile gasoline is subject to phase separation, which happens when the fuel is cooled as a result of the aircraft’s climbing to higher altitude. When the alcohol separates from the gasoline, it may carry water that has been held in solution and that cannot be handled by the sediment bowl.
• Alcohol present in automobile gasoline reduces the energy content of the fuel. Methanol has approximately 55 percent of the energy content of gasoline, and ethanol has approximately 73 percent of the energy content of automobile gasoline. The greater the amount of alcohol in the automobile gasoline, the greater the reduction in the aircraft’s range.
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just as long as the Sidnaw Mini-Mart keeps an ethanol free pump we'll all be OK...
 
Ethanol doesn't have the btu of regular gasoline. It lowers engine performance. Most aircraft engines that have mogas stcs are not real high performance engines to start out with. It used to eat gaskets and orings, but most gaskets and orings manufactured in the last decade are not affected. The thing about aviation, is some of those gaskets and orings are more than a decade or two old.
I have a Suzuki V-strom motorcycle, and it will protest quite loudly if I try to run ethanol in it. I have installed a power commander, which essentially allows me to re-map it to run richer if I do happen to get ethanol in it. In some states, like MN, they don't tell you on the pump that their gas has ethanol in it. I know within a few miles, if I have filled up with it, then I have to pull over and re-map the system. Even when I do, the bike does not have the power that it does running straight gasoline.
 
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