Attorney for an aircraft purchase?

[midlifeflyer]

I'm not sure what we're debating here. Perhaps I wasn't verbose enough in my reply to the OP. The point I was trying to make was that if he/she spends $3K - $5K to hire an attorney to draft and negotiate a purchase and sale agreement and that purchase and sale agreement was executed (signed) then he/she could expect to spend thousands on any contractual dispute that may arise. How much? IDK, but based on my very limited experience with hiring attorneys to draft purchase and sale agreements I could see it easily topping in excess of $5K. So now the OP has spent at least $8K - $10K (probably more) on a $35K asset. To me that doesn't seem like a very good value proposition. Now if we were talking about an $800K asset, like a Cirrus, then yeah, a few thousand to try and protect a purchaser maybe make sense assuming a mutually agreeable contract was drafted.

That said, I have heard that most light aircraft sales agreements are "AS IS". I know mine was and when the day comes that I sell my aircraft that's the agreement I will sign. I would expect the buyer to want a thorough prebuy inspection and I think money is better spent on that. Once the attorneys are brought in no one wins except the attorneys...

If you are saying a good written agreement increases the likelihood and cost of litigation, I will disagree with you. The most expensive one I've seen was without any written agreement. The litigation would have cost a lot more if it weren't for the lawyers, both of which, for very different reasons, were trying to keep costs down.

Come to think of it, if there was a good writen agreement there probably wold not have been any litigation.

 

[cowman]

Light aircraft are purchased all the time using a generic purchase contract found somewhere like AOPA, printed out and filled in. Planes are purchased via personal check all the time as well. I've been involved in 3 aircraft sales, twice as a buyer and once as a seller. In all cases we used generic purchase contracts. One sale done with cashier's check, another with a bank draft, and another with a personal check.

The truth is as long as all parties are operating honestly it won't matter. Transfer the money and fill out the FAA change of ownership paperwork and FAA bill of sale, make up some kind of bill of sale for the tax man. That's all you really need unless someone is being deceptive, in which case it will probably go to court and be a huge mess regardless of the paperwork.

Contracts, laywers, escrow services... it's down to your comfort level. How likely do you think this person is to try to cheat you? How devastating would it be if they were? How much are you willing to pay to mitigate that risk? Those are judgement calls for you make. The only things you absolutely need to buy an airplane are the FAA forms and a means to transfer funds.

 

[idahoflier]

If you are saying a good written agreement increases the likelihood and cost of litigation, I will disagree with you.

I am most definitely not trying to say that. Re-reading what I wrote I can see how you could have that interpretation, so I guess it's a good thing I'm not an attorney! I'll try one more time and if I fail, I'll just leave it at that...

OP spends $3K-$5K for purchase agreement and purchases the aircraft.
OP discovers something wrong with the aircraft that he/she feels is the seller's responsibility to remedy. Seller disagrees. Litigation begins. For the sake of argument let's say that only costs the buyer $5K in attorney fees. Maybe the buyer prevails, maybe the seller prevails.
OP is now out $8K - $10K. The aircraft is worth $35K. To me that's not a good value proposition. But to each their own...

 

[midlifeflyer]

I am most definitely not trying to say that. Re-reading what I wrote I can see how you could have that interpretation, so I guess it's a good thing I'm not an attorney! I'll try one more time and if I fail, I'll just leave it at that...

OP spends $3K-$5K for purchase agreement and purchases the aircraft.
OP discovers something wrong with the aircraft that he/she feels is the seller's responsibility to remedy. Seller disagrees. Litigation begins. For the sake of argument let's say that only costs the buyer $5K in attorney fees. Maybe the buyer prevails, maybe the seller prevails.
OP is now out $8K - $10K. The aircraft is worth $35K. To me that's not a good value proposition. But to each their own...

You're right it's not.

 

[The-Flying-Lawyer]

Hey there. I'd agree with a lot of what's been said here: people in any line of work are only worth hiring when they add value, and that includes attorneys. There are a lot of ways to create that value, like finding unnoticed tax savings, improving the substantive terms of the purchase agreement, or simply shifting the risk of errors off of yourself and onto the attorney. That doesn't mean we're always worth it or never worth it. It's your call.

To put it in a different light, most of my clients are other attorneys. They choose to hire me for the same reason I'd hire a different attorney to defend me in litigation or prepare my will: they could spend the time and effort do it themselves, but they'd rather spend the money. Sometimes that's simply because it's more efficient, but most of the time it's because they want to be sure the job is done well.

 

[Tusayan]

On the title search, it can be a mess if there are liens involved. About a year ago there was a BO209 Mitsubishi Monsoon on our field. Flat tires, covered in bird doo, out of registration, the usual. I thought it would make a good project plane. Tracked down the owner and was able to work out a purchase at an appropriate price for a project. But...the title search uncovered a lien by Kalifornia for a $160 tie-down fee 20 years ago. When we tried to clear it, it appears it had ballooned to over $60K with fines and fees. The KA window to appeal was over and they wouldn't budge. If we had bought the plane without checking, we likely would be buying the lien too. We ended buying the parts, but it'll never fly again

Oh come on... It’s an MBB Monsun... When Whitey’s Aircraft Sales was selling them in the US circa 1971 he hyped them as being Messerschmitts, but not Mitsubishis! (they’re really Bölkows)

How about it becoming another plane, perhaps one that was crashed some years ago and really won’t ever fly again? Logbook entry can be “replaced wings and fuselage with used serviceable components”.

Of alternately please DO NOT scrap or throw away anything serviceable. There are only eight of them or so in the US.

Yes I have heard this story before