Attn: Twin Owners

Any twin can do that. The Seneca is less likely to do so given a greater performance margin, and counterrotating propellers.
 
Henning said:
I loved my Travelair but it was a high altitude machine and I'm just not having fun above 12,500 without pressure; and I can't afford pressure. So I chose a plane that accells in the flight regimes I prefer to operate in. On the deck I do 165 on 24.4gph combined WOT 2500-2550 hard LOP with CHTs around 340. She'll skim the water and skip over golf courses that stick out too far. Even the golfers wave friendly at her. ;) At the end of the day there is just a fine white powder in my augmentors, lead:sad:.
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Right, and if that's a concern then you plan accordingly. But you wouldn't fly a naturally aspirated plane at 17,000 ft without good reason.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Right, and if that's a concern then you plan accordingly. But you wouldn't fly a naturally aspirated plane at 17,000 ft without good reason.
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If I was going San Fran to St Louis and winds aloft 17,500 was going to save me a fuel stop, yes, I'd grab O2 and go, but it has to be good. I can still do 17,000 with a 160ktas and have a bit of climb to go.
 
I think a nice E55 Baron with a pair of 550s would be fun to fly. I'm guessing 190-200kts, maybe. A scosh over 30 gals/hr. Beeches just fly nice. Anybody seen a Wing Derringer lately? For the OP, maybe a Duchess.
 
j1b3h0 said:
I think a nice E55 Baron with a pair of 550s would be fun to fly. I'm guessing 190-200kts, maybe. A scosh over 30 gals/hr. Beeches just fly nice. Anybody seen a Wing Derringer lately? For the OP, maybe a Duchess.
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Baron owners everywhere want to talk to you and dump their airplanes on you. ;)
 
j1b3h0 said:
I think a nice E55 Baron with a pair of 550s would be fun to fly. I'm guessing 190-200kts, maybe. A scosh over 30 gals/hr. Beeches just fly nice. Anybody seen a Wing Derringer lately? For the OP, maybe a Duchess.
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The Duchess is a nice looking plane.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Not true if you make a proper comparison between equivalents.



Problem with the Seneca II-V as I see it is the TSIO-360 powerplant choice, which is very far down on my list of engines I'd want to have in a training aircraft, and while it does have 6 seats, filling them won't leave you much room for fuel. I'd also thought they were closer to Aztec speed than Baron speed?
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We had a Seneca 2 with the 220 hp engines. It was fine for training. A couple of airborne shutdown restarts won't hurt them.

If the TSIO-360 is flown correctly and stage cooled properly there are no issues with them at all.

The one I managed had the 2 bladed props and we would cruise at 170-175 at 22-23 gph.

At the same time I was managing this airplane I was flying a 58 Baron for my full time employer. The Baron was costing more in fuel and the year in year out maintenance costs were double of the Seneca.

Also for a new twin pilot insurance was less on the Seneca.

Having flown both for several years, if I was buying for myself I would go with the Seneca.
 
LJS1993 said:
The Duchess is a nice looking plane.
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The Duchess is a good choice for a first twin. Unlike its single-engined sisters, the Musketeers and Sierra...which seem too heavy and under-powered, the Duchess feels like a little hot rod. It climbs well - even with four fat guys aboard. Got doors on both sides. Like some of the other trainer twins, minimum controllable airspeed OEI is below stall speed. I can't remember it is has counter rotating props, so no critical engine,...and, since you're a low time multi pilot, it's equipt with unfeathering accumulators, so you can practice single engine work. Like most Beeches, light, responsive controls, good visability and a fairly modern panel come standard. Only down side is many come from a training environment, (go figure) and have been run hard. Same with Travel Airs, but there are still plenty around.
 
Excellent input gentlemen!!!!!!! I have learned a LOT about twins in this thread which is greatly appreciated.
 
Loved the Apache. Loved it. Bought it on E-bay for $32,000. Probably spent $36,000 (not including gas) to keep it flying for three years. I envy A&Ps who fix their own planes.
Put 300 hours on it. It was a flying sweet potato.
Do yourself a favor. Get checked out in a Pilatus and rent. If you want the multi rating, go up to Traverse City. But do not heed the siren song. You can do a lot of flying for $70,000.
 
ApacheBob said:
Do yourself a favor. Get checked out in a Pilatus and rent.
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Why? So you can spend a bunch of money on a plane that you can't rent?
 
On a further note regarding twins do most pilots accomplish major time in singles before getting certified for twins? Or do some pilots do a pretty quick jump?
 
LJS1993 said:
On a further note regarding twins do most pilots accomplish major time in singles before getting certified for twins? Or do some pilots do a pretty quick jump?
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Varies from person to person. Most folks do the MEL after they complete their Commercial. I was a little different and got mine a little over 100 hrs and before I finished my IR.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
My first dual in a twin was between 37 and 40 hours. All of my time since 55hrs has been MEL. Only a bit over 100hrs total right now, but I bought an apache and it has been all twin all the time.
 
On a further note regarding twins do most pilots accomplish major time in singles before getting certified for twins? Or do some pilots do a pretty quick jump?
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It really depends on the person, I suspect. I flew for about ten years or so before flying a multi-engine airplane. I flew commercially for five years before getting an instrument rating, and another few years after that before flying anything with more than one engine.

Throughout my career, I've frequently gone from flying multi engine airplanes back to single engine airplanes.

Some feel like they're not a complete pilot until they're flying something with more than one engine. I disagree. I'm thrilled to death to be flying a Twin Commander. I'm equally thrilled about flying an Air Tractor. I'm equally thrilled about flying a Cessna 180, or a 747, or a Learjet. They're all just airplanes. Slightly different roles, slightly different techniques, but just airplanes. Frankly, a J-3 cub is about as enjoyable as anything, and that one motor is all you need.

If you're going to be doing other roles that could use two engines, then do that. Twins are expensive, and one either needs adequate money to make them go, or needs someone else with adequate money hiring or supporting them.

I just flew across the country in a Cessna 414. It was fine. I gave some instruction in it, flew it a little, and will get a ride in it today to pick up an Air Tractor 802. I'll be perfectly happy in the Air Tractor.

Some people have a lot of time (and years) in singles before moving to multi, but then some people have a lot of years of multi before moving to singles, too. Each to it's own accord.
 
DouglasBader said:
It really depends on the person, I suspect. I flew for about ten years or so before flying a multi-engine airplane. I flew commercially for five years before getting an instrument rating, and another few years after that before flying anything with more than one engine.

Throughout my career, I've frequently gone from flying multi engine airplanes back to single engine airplanes.

Some feel like they're not a complete pilot until they're flying something with more than one engine. I disagree. I'm thrilled to death to be flying a Twin Commander. I'm equally thrilled about flying an Air Tractor. I'm equally thrilled about flying a Cessna 180, or a 747, or a Learjet. They're all just airplanes. Slightly different roles, slightly different techniques, but just airplanes. Frankly, a J-3 cub is about as enjoyable as anything, and that one motor is all you need.

If you're going to be doing other roles that could use two engines, then do that. Twins are expensive, and one either needs adequate money to make them go, or needs someone else with adequate money hiring or supporting them.

I just flew across the country in a Cessna 414. It was fine. I gave some instruction in it, flew it a little, and will get a ride in it today to pick up an Air Tractor 802. I'll be perfectly happy in the Air Tractor.

Some people have a lot of time (and years) in singles before moving to multi, but then some people have a lot of years of multi before moving to singles, too. Each to it's own accord.
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There is alot of truth in this.

When I first got my PPL, all I wanted to do was move on to the next biggest, fastest thing. Pattern work bored me....I wanted complexity and to go places. Now, with my Comm behind me and over 100 hrs ME, the most fun I have these days is actually just farting around in my 170.
 
LJS1993 said:
On a further note regarding twins do most pilots accomplish major time in singles before getting certified for twins? Or do some pilots do a pretty quick jump?
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Varies. I know someone who bought a twin and flew it from day one. Insurance ate her alive the first year.
 
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