Attention Chip Gibbons

[gismo]

Not at all.. the spades dont have much if any influence on the rudder...

The ones I'm thinking of have spades on the rudder, would that make a difference? Actually, I think I can ask the owners of the two I know of, I see them often.

I teach to raise your hands and pull back your feet,,, and then push on the hard rudder... folks have a problem finding the hard rudder when both feet are on the pedals.

Interesting, I never thought about the feet off the pedals thing, makes sense though.

 

[gismo]

Nick, I have to agree with you. As a 200hr pilot, some of the "stupid low time pilot" comments struck a nerve. My first reaction was, wow, so that's how they REALLY feel about guys like me. I guess I'll never measure up.

Hey, I was a "stupid low time pilot" once, now I'm a stupid mid time pilot. Yesterday I landed at an uncontrolled airport and forgot to cancel, fortunately another pilot departed soon after and reported that I was on the ground.

 

[Greg Bockelman]

Nick, I have to agree with you. As a 200hr pilot, some of the "stupid low time pilot" comments struck a nerve. My first reaction was, wow, so that's how they REALLY feel about guys like me. I guess I'll never measure up.

Signed,
Fog-Bound in Philly

Well, you won't catch ME making those kinds of comments. At least I hope not. Sorry if I did.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Nick, I have to agree with you. As a 200hr pilot, some of the "stupid low time pilot" comments struck a nerve. My first reaction was, wow, so that's how they REALLY feel about guys like me. I guess I'll never measure up.

Be careful with the throwaway nasty comments, my friends. Sometimes stray bullets strike innocent bystanders.

Signed,
Fog-Bound in Philly

Point well taken. I hope my previous apology was sufficient.

Best,

Dave

 

[flyersfan31]

Hey, we're all brothers (and sisters)! Some are just older and wiser.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Thanks. I've had a few folks say things I didn't like and don't mean to do that to others.

I have some excuses....I have the flu, so wasn't thinkin right....saw GS give some good folks grief and didn't like it.....I could go on, but thanks.

Lesson learned.

Best,

Dave

 

[Scott 'Gunny' Perdue]

The ones I'm thinking of have spades on the rudder, would that make a difference? Actually, I think I can ask the owners of the two I know of, I see them often.......

What airplanes have spades on the rudder? I've seen vortex generators... but not spades.

I don't see how it would make a difference though... spades are all about lessoning the breakout force... but I don't think they would mask it totally.

 

[ejensen]

<snip> Everyone needs to stop.

You got it doc. Like what I said the last time a young gentleman like this popuped up. Stop Feeding Him.

 

[gismo]

What airplanes have spades on the rudder? I've seen vortex generators... but not spades.

I don't see how it would make a difference though... spades are all about lessoning the breakout force... but I don't think they would mask it totally.

I checked with a good acro pilot who has rudder spades and he said the same thing.

 

[gibbons]

What airplanes have spades on the rudder? I've seen vortex generators... but not spades.

Gunny,

I've seen a few but don't really understand the purpose. Here's a photo of an Ultimate with rudder spades, although they're hard to make out in this photo:
Ultimate Biplane with rudder spades

Here's part of the ad this photo came from
"ULTIMATE 10-200S N38PC • $63,000 • AVAILABLE FOR SALE • ULTIMATE 10-200S "PLUMB CRAZY" N38PC TRT 250D transceiver Nav transponder with mode C DYNON EFIS Smoke system with 5 gallon smoke tank in top wing Ultimate "Super Wings" +10G/-10G - 6 flying wires per wing 4 Full span ailerons with spades Super rudder with spades "

I think I've seen them on Pitts S12's also and maybe even a Suk, but can't remember for sure.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Moderator 5 finally locked the thread over on that other board; don't like the moderator having to step in, but that thread was getting pretty rough. Some folks just have to take it personally.

Best,

Dave

 

[Steve]

Curtis Pitts referred to spades as "pooper scoopers".

 

[Scott 'Gunny' Perdue]

Gunny,

I've seen a few but don't really understand the purpose. Here's a photo of an Ultimate with rudder spades, although they're hard to make out in this photo:
Ultimate Biplane with rudder spades
....... I think I've seen them on Pitts S12's also and maybe even a Suk, but can't remember for sure.

Chip-

Interesting... I'd be very curious about their effectiveness... from the photo it looks like they are mounted very close to the hinge line... couldn't quite tell with the shadow and all... I haven't seen any n Model 12's or Sukhois.

Could it be from the school of 'a little more of a good thing can't hurt'?

 

[jshawley]

Curious: what are spades, and what do they do?

Thx!

Jim

 

[tonycondon]

theyre like little pooper scoopers on the wings

they are little "scoops" that hang off of control surfaces, usually ailerons. My understanding is that they give you a heavier control feel. The aerobatic guys will probably get on here and tell me im retarded.

 

[alaskaflyer]

theyre like little pooper scoopers on the wings

they are little "scoops" that hang off of control surfaces, usually ailerons. My understanding is that they give you a heavier control feel. The aerobatic guys will probably get on here and tell me im retarded.

Not an aerobatic pilot but in context of the Husky they are designed to lighten control forces...in that case on the ailerons.

When I first saw them I thought they were there to protect the wingtips in the case of a groundloop

 

[Diana]

theyre like little pooper scoopers on the wings

they are little "scoops" that hang off of control surfaces, usually ailerons. My understanding is that they give you a heavier control feel. The aerobatic guys will probably get on here and tell me im retarded.

Actually, they are supposed to make for a lighter feel on the controls.

The link to the Air & Space magazine description of spades doesn't work anymore, but here is part of the explanation from one of their articles:

Aileron spades - These shovel-shaped surfaces, rigidly mounted on arms forward of the ailerons, provide "aerodynamic balance," reducing the effort needed to roll the airplane. Aerobatic airplanes need aerodynamic balances because their control surfaces are large and their speeds are sometimes high. When the ailerons are neutral, the spades are aligned with the airstream and do nothing. But when an aileron is deflected upward, for example, its spade tips downward. Air presses against it, (4 in diagram above) helping the aileron along, just as the weight of a small person on one end of a teeter-totter helps a larger person at the other end push off the ground. The farther the aileron is deflected, the larger the force supplied by the spade. Aerobatic pilots describe spades as akin to power steering. "Spade design is a black art," says airshow pilot Patty Wagstaff. "You see all kinds of shapes and all sizes, depending on the airplane. Akro pilots are always tweaking them to get the control feel just right-not too light and not too heavy. I've flown without spades, and it was like driving a Mack truck."


We debated putting spades on the Citabria when we had it down for the recovering. After borrowing Chip's Citabria with spades, Tom decided he didn't want spades. It really hurts when you run into them with your head...especially twice on the same spot on your head. Sooooooo, I fly a Mack truck.

This is the closest I will get to having spades with my Citabria.

 

[tonycondon]

oh ok, i knew they did something with the controls...

 

[jshawley]

This is the closest I will get to having spades with my Citabria.

So didja get Tom up and use the "spade" to clear the snow? or have you been hit with the white stuff yet?

Keep warm,

Jim

 

[Diana]

So didja get Tom up and use the "spade" to clear the snow? or have you been hit with the white stuff yet?

Looks like we'll need that spade here today Jim.

We're iced over and bracing ourselves for the rest of the winter storm to hit. We'll consider ourselves lucky if we don't lose power like the last big storm where we lost power here in the boonies for three days. I'm working on a new Citabria acro video, and writing my last article for my final EAA Chapter newsletter. I'd rather be flying.

Sorry we can't make it over this Saturday.

Stay safe.

 

[N50909]

This is the closest I will get to having spades with my Citabria.

Hi Diana! <waves> You're everywhere.

Nice spade. You should see the spades on Rob's plane. He's got a set on each wing (so 4 aileron spades) as well as spades on the elevator and the rudder.

He's also got the ailerons rigged to the elevator so when the elevator goes up, so do both the top wing's ailerons. Hard to explain.

Andy

 

[tonycondon]

thats actually a very easy and effective way to keep the stall from starting at the tip. the reflexed ailerons reduce the AoA. A buddies glider has the same feature.

 

[Diana]

Hi Diana! <waves>

Hi Andy! <waves back> Welcome to the forum.

You're everywhere.

It's only an illusion.

Hey, I just mailed my October issue of Sport Aerobatics to you on Monday. You should be getting it soon. I copied off the article by Rob on flying the slow roll before I sent it. It's a good article.

 

[N50909]

Hi Andy! <waves back> Welcome to the forum.

It's only an illusion.

Hey, I just mailed my October issue of Sport Aerobatics to you on Monday. You should be getting it soon. I copied off the article by Rob on flying the slow roll before I sent it. It's a good article.

Thanks!

Yeah, it was good... much better than my slow rolls. Need more practice!