Attention: BOATERS

[Lawreston]

My house is just a few miles from the Kennebec River which runs for many miles up through the state and about five or six miles down to the ocean.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennebec_River (As a reference, I'm 7sm below Bath)

Or I can drive about 7 miles to Five Islands(ocean-side and looks across to the distant Boothbay Harbor area), the Southern end of the route on which I live. http://maine.hometownlocator.com/ME/Sagadahoc/Five-Islands.cfm
(My property is at the junction of Henry Road and Old Georgetown Road in the left graphic) Hey, there's a misprint. There is no Old Robin Hood Road there; it's Old Georgetown Road, no longer fully driveable except to 4 or 5 houses above me; and Old Georgetown Road was replaced decades ago by the "modern" Route 127.

I'm thinking about buying an open runabout. A couple which I've viewed include
Four Winns Horizon 190 and Starcraft Medalist 1900; both of which are 19' range. Does anyone have any knowledge of those two manufacturers?

At the top of my property is what used to be the Bay Point Fire Station. It's former location was five miles away at Bay Point. When Georgetown Central Fire Department took over caring for Bay Point someone moved the old station to what is now my property. The roof is good, the big front door is gone -- it was a one-truck station -- and it's deep enough to back a 20'+ boat and trailer into it during the winter.

Just what I need: another toy, eh?

HR

 

[Henning]

I'm thinking about buying an open runabout. A couple which I've viewed include
Four Winns Horizon 190 and Starcraft Medalist 1900; both of which are 19' range. Does anyone have any knowledge of those two manufacturers?

Yep, both junk, sorry.

In that size range, I'd be looking at the Donzi Classic 18 or 22 or the Chris Craft Lancer series if you're looking for a new production boat (the Corsair 22 is a pretty sweet boat as well, but I don't think they'll be delivering them till next season).

If you'd like something that has a bit more style and soul to it though, the people over at Hacker Craft have a nice used 18' Chris for sale.

 

[Ken Ibold]

Yeah, I'd agree with Henning on those two models.

I have a 21 foot Ebbtide that is a reasonable compromise between quality and cost. Not perfect, but we've been pretty happy with it in the 3 years we've owned it. Good features and it's holding up well in heavy saltwater use.

 

[Lawreston]

A beauty, but how often does such a vessel have to be re-varnished?

HR
. . . and those two other I saw were used boats, also.

 

[Henning]

A beauty, but how often does such a vessel have to be re-varnished?

HR
. . . and those two other I saw were used boats, also.

It depends on what you varnish with, how much you use it, if you wax it, and how you store/care for it. If you just use good Epifanes varnish and use it for the summer storing it inside as you were talking about, a quick scuff and double coat at the beginning of the season will keep it in immaculate condition. Two days worth of work, a couple or three hundred bucks once a year. If you only use the boat a few times in the season and always keep it inside and wax it with a good carnuba wax beginning of the season, after each use, and before winter storage, and maybe once during the december warm spell and keep a cover on it to keep the bird crap off, you can probably stretch it out to putting a couple coats on every three years.

If you use my system of sealing the wood with a couple coats of clear Awl Grip, 10 coats of Epifanes, and then top it with 3 coats of clear Awl Grip, I get 5-7 years stored in the FL or CA sun waxing every 2-3 months.

If it has a good varnish job on it, and you just maintain, lightly sand and add a few coats yearly, and fix any dings in it shortly after they happen, you only need to take it to wood every couple of decades.

 

[Lawreston]

Yup; I KNEW that's why I liked my fiber glass sloop that I used to own.
Whatever I may buy won't be towed to/from the house. Under roof cover shall be during the winter. I'm thinking about talking to the owner(s) of one or more of the floats I see when I cross the Arrowsic/Georgetown Bridge. Perhaps I could come to an arrangement for tying up or to on the protected inlet.

HR

 

[ApacheBob]

All of my 8 students successfully passed our boating safety class tonight.
If you want a smoking deal on a boat, buy one in Detroit. I have heard from many sources that used boats are going for rock-bottom prices in Detroit.

 

[Shipoke]

well I have a 23Ft Wellcraft Nova XL and really like it. Traded in a 19 Ft Glasport on it( like that one too) I wanted a bigger boat, Now i'm looking at going 30 + .
Dave G
Here is a pic of the 23 ft.

 

[Lawreston]

That's why I'm keeping aware of our boating areas around here. Several months ago I was returning from a theatre performance and took the old U.S. Route #1 from South Portland.
From curiosity I stopped by Yarmouth Boat Co. on the Royal River. From runabouts on trailers to 38', 40', 42' sail and power boats there were multitudes of FOR SALE signs.
One of the latter noted, "Asking $499,500." I'd bet as the fuel situation has heightened there may be even more for sale at the same location(and others).

HR

 

[Henning]

Yup; I KNEW that's why I liked my fiber glass sloop that I used to own.
Whatever I may buy won't be towed to/from the house. Under roof cover shall be during the winter. I'm thinking about talking to the owner(s) of one or more of the floats I see when I cross the Arrowsic/Georgetown Bridge. Perhaps I could come to an arrangement for tying up or to on the protected inlet.

HR

Yeah, if you leave it in the water for the summer and haul for the off season, a couple coats a year will keep it immaculate forever. You won't be waxing anymore than you would gelcoat to keep it good as well. You can get a good varnish guy/gal to come in in the spring, scuff it and wipe it one day, and put a couple coats on the next for a few hundred. You'll spend more than that replacing corroded crap hardware on a tupperware boat every year. IME, same size boat w/ same level of usage will have very similar 5 year costs whether wood, glass, steel or aluminium. Thing is, you can have a cool, quality boat that will maintain its value (possibly go up depending on the market) for the same cost as a tupperware bowl that will do nothing but lose its value.

 

[bbchien]

Oh h_ll, Jerry, you don't need an old Chris-Craft. You need a Hinckley Souwester 54!

 

[Dean]

I have a 1995 Celebrity 190 BR, it is powered by a 305 Chevy V8 with the Alpha 1 out drive.It is rated at 230HP, with 1/4 tank and two people it will top out at 53 MPH. It has been a great boat and has been trouble free. You should be able to pick one up for less than $8K. Working on a lake and dealing with boaters on a daily bases, I would start with Crownline or Captiva for a lower end boat. If you want to spend some bucks, look at Cobalts, Donzi, Baja and Wellcrafts.

 

[Richard]

If you want to spend some bucks, look at Cobalts, Donzi, Baja and Wellcrafts.

ka-CHING!!!!

Or you could do what I did and find a well founded 20' deep V with cuddy cabin and put a bit of elbow grease into her. V-8 I/O tops out at 35 kts with 4 of six seats full and 1/2 tanks. Don't forget the tandem axle trailer with hyd surge brakes.

All for $1,600.

But if you do as Bruce suggested (and I really think you should) I will be on your doorstep in a NY second.

 

[Lawreston]

A long-time customer of mine -- Google JAY PARIS and you'll probably get a bunch of hits -- is a noted boat designer. Jay used to say that one should expect to annually spend 10% of a boat's original cost, just for maintenance.

HR

EDIT: Change that Google to JAY E. PARIS BOATS. Certainly wouldn't want to mix Jay in with the Beyonce crowd, or the sports writer by the same name(without the E.)

 

[Lawreston]

Yeah - right, Bruce! Or even one from the fellow who lives a couple miles below the old Crute farm in Cushing -- Cabot Lyman -- as in Lyman-Morse, Boatbuilder(Thomaston). He built Miramar, the ketch(yawl?) which was Christopher Reeve's pride and joy.

Maybe -- if it stops raining around here -- I'll get to Concord, NH to pick up my 430W equipped $ky-boat. Perhaps that'll cool my boat shopping. )

 

[Skip Miller]

Oh h_ll, Jerry, you don't need an old Chris-Craft. You need a Hinckley Souwester 54!

Right back at you Bruce! That's not exactly a day sailer! But what a boat!

It sure is easy spending someone else's money, isn't it!

-Skip

 

[Dart]

Yep, both junk, sorry.

He's right. But, if you are after light duty on a placid pond or river, (preferably fresh water) and the price is right...why not.

In that size range, I'd be looking at the Donzi Classic 18 or 22 or the Chris Craft Lancer series if you're looking for a new production boat (the Corsair 22 is a pretty sweet boat as well, but I don't think they'll be delivering them till next season).

Right again, but faaar from inexpensive.

If you'd like something that has a bit more style and soul to it though, the people over at Hacker Craft have a nice used 18' Chris for sale.

A boat, like a plane, is mission specific vehicle. A Boston Whaler or Carolina Skiff is easy inland gunk holing. A nice Donzi will definitely help you get lai.. er, meet new friends.,

What do you primarily want to do with it?

How fast do you want to get there?

How will your cruising grounds restrict your vessel choice?

How pretty does it have to be?

How long do you want to keep it?

Is appearance important to you?

Will you need a weather protection?


Here's my power boat. It is twenty one years old and on it's third motor. There is no wood or vinyl trim (the teak anchor pulpit is functional). It has tanks for 150 gallons. It draws 17 inches. But, it pounds the crap outta you in a sea. You can keep moving in ten foot seas. It will suck but you wont fear for your life. It is heavy to trailer. Of all my day boats this has been the most all-around versatile.

 

[TangoWhiskey]

http://maine.hometownlocator.com/ME/Sagadahoc/Five-Islands.cfm
(My property is at the junction of Henry Road and Old Georgetown Road in the left graphic) Hey, there's a misprint. There is no Old Robin Hood Road there; it's Old Georgetown Road, no longer fully driveable except to 4 or 5 houses above me; and Old Georgetown Road was replaced decades ago by the "modern" Route 127.

I can't offer any advice on the boat, but this is interesting... the site you linked uses Google Maps, yet the map that is shown is wrong... yet, if you go to Google Maps directly, the streets are as you described.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=bath,+maine&ie=UTF8&ll=43.84338,-69.752541&spn=0.021109,0.054073&t=h&z=15

Odd!

 

[Lawreston]

The Four Winns Horizon 190 I referenced has a Johnson 140hp outboard on it.
Boat and motor have been inside-stored for nine years by a large, local boat dealer. It was involved in one of those testy divorce actions one occasionally sees. Listed @ $7900.00.

HR

 

[Troska]

The Four Winns Horizon 190 I referenced has a Johnson 140hp outboard on it.
Boat and motor have been inside-stored for nine years by a large, local boat dealer. It was involved in one of those testy divorce actions one occasionally sees. Listed @ $7900.00.

HR

If it is the v4 2s Johnson 140, it is too small for a 19ft boat. That same block is used from the 90hp up to the 140hp, and you won't see 140hp until it is screaming. Which means it will be a dog out of the hole, unless so underpropped your top speed will be low 30's.

Tim

 

[Lawreston]

Interesting! And even that map has inaccuracies. Henry Road is only that portion which goes off Route 127 and stops at what is listed as the junction at the top of the hill of Henry Road/Moonstone Road. My 1.5 acres is right under -- in the "V" of -- the "M" in Moonstone at the junction. And what is shown as Old Georgetown Road used to connect with the seemingly-displaced Henry Road(at the top). One can still walk Old Georgetown Road and come out on Robinhood road. A stone wall(top of my property) runs along the bottom edge of Moonstone. When "Henry"(gravel access road) was blazed about 32 years ago Rick Lee called the offshoot road to his house,"Moonstone"; but on the town's books Moonstone is still officially known as Old Georgetown Road. I don't know how old Troy's referenced map is, but my house was built in 1997. Hence, if the map is older than that, an enlarged image won't show any structures(several) on the property(except perhaps the old fire station). So where am I?
On a hill in the trees -- the hot tub stays at 100 degrees.

HR

 

[Henning]

The Four Winns Horizon 190 I referenced has a Johnson 140hp outboard on it.
Boat and motor have been inside-stored for nine years by a large, local boat dealer. It was involved in one of those testy divorce actions one occasionally sees. Listed @ $7900.00.

HR

Boats and planes have a few things in common, one of them is that if you let them sit around without use, they turn to s--t.

 

[Lawreston]

[Snip}

Working on a lake and dealing with boaters on a daily bases, I would start with Crownline or Captiva for a lower end boat. If you want to spend some bucks, look at Cobalts, Donzi, Baja and Wellcrafts.

Dean: Perhaps something like this?

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...rrency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=1661&url=

I saw it today, and some other makes.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...33&ybw=&units=Feet&currency=USD&access=Public

HR

. . . . and I was aboard(on ground) a 2005 Sea Ray 200 Sundeck.
http://www.boattest.com/oem/general-info.aspx?ID=342&lp_id=295#OverView

Not the one in the test, obviously. Originally purchased in 2005 at $45,000; owner just hasn't had time for it. Listed at $28,500.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

A beauty, but how often does such a vessel have to be re-varnished?

HR
. . . and those two other I saw were used boats, also.

If it's outside all year, a couple coats each spring. Takes about as long as waxing a fiberglass hull.

The trick is to get something that is in decent shape to begin with.

Personally, having owned (and maintained) both, I've sworn off plastic boats - blisters, delamination, bad cores, gel coat cracks, itch, itch, itch...

 

[Henning]

If it's outside all year, a couple coats each spring. Takes about as long as waxing a fiberglass hull.

The trick is to get something that is in decent shape to begin with.

Personally, having owned (and maintained) both, I've sworn off plastic boats - blisters, delamination, bad cores, gel coat cracks, itch, itch, itch...

'Zactly, Polyester/Glass is just trouble, and the small, low cost boats don't use vinylester or epoxy resins. Wood is easy and cheap to deal with and so much more comfortable and durable, plus it doesn't cause you to develope allergies to hydrocarbons.

 

[2256Q]

Ummm...this is a bit off the subject, but I've got a buddy out in CA who has a 35' Hunter sloop he's selling, if anyone's interested in such a critter. Think they're asking 50K.

 

[docmirror]

I've owned a bunch of boats. Sea Rey, Four Winns, Seaswirl, Yamaha, etc. Right now I have a 27' Bayliner Cierra. It's a good time to make a stupid low-ball offer on the cleanest 20-24' boat you can find. Stay away from the OMC Cobra outdrive. The best outdrive by far is the Volvo Duo-prop. Incredibly strong and very efficient.

Something with a mini-cuddy up front, and full canvas will let you use it into October. If you get an open boat, any wind or rain will be unpleasant.

Here's an example of the Celebrity make. Has trailer, duo-prop, small cuddy. You may have to get some canvas made, but this would be a good boat for a while. Not the best make, not the worst.

http://www.boats.com/listing/boat_d...ce=5000&ps=50&rid=100&sm=3&toLength=24&ftid=0

Although older, it looks quite clean and nice.

 

[Obi Heed Kenobi]

Yep, both junk, sorry.

In that size range, I'd be looking at the Donzi Classic 18 or 22 or the Chris Craft Lancer series if you're looking for a new production boat (the Corsair 22 is a pretty sweet boat as well, but I don't think they'll be delivering them till next season).

If you'd like something that has a bit more style and soul to it though, the people over at Hacker Craft have a nice used 18' Chris for sale.

I tend to agree with Henning, as well.

Then again, I tend not to like anything but true inboards. I/O's and outboards do have their advantages; but with a little more effort those advantages can be made up for with an inboard, and they're a heck of a lot easier to replace/repair yourself.

Chris Craft makes an excellent boat.

 

[Obi Heed Kenobi]

Just a couple of other thoughts.

Since you're looking at used boats, and as you're in Maine (presumably near salt water - I'm too lazy to go back to the first page and see where you actually live), be aware that salt water can do bad things to an engine if it's not flushed out regularly after use (i.e., hooking your garden hose up to it and running the engine for a little bit just to get the salt out). And replacing an outboard is a pricey affair.

There's no real way to tell if it has or hasn't been flushed, but I've found that with used outboards at least, if you pop the top off and see a bunch of what can only be described as gunk on the engine/components, it's likely not been well taken care of. Not an absolute rule, but a dirty engine in anything is usually a sign of less-than-thorough care. And if somebody's too lazy to spray the block off, you can be sure they're not hooking the earmuffs up to the thing after they bring it home on the trailer.

One other thing you might want to consider - where are you going to be using this boat? I don't know diddly about Maine, but from what I hear, it's rocky (good friend grew up in Brewer); and I assume that means there's rocks under the water. So, think about what you want in a hull - there are some brands out there that have a hull that's a foot of fiberglass, and others that are an inch (Bayliner comes to mind - look nice, but they're built like eggshells).

So if you're going to be puttering around rocky coasts, or even where there might be logs partially submerged, give that some serious consideration.

And don't be that guy who doesn't wave back when waved to.

 

[Lawreston]

Obi Heed, and others: Thanks for the various posts. Take a look at this Link:
http://www.boats.com/listing/dealer...inesite&currencyid=100&style=dw&task=preowned

If it comes up properly there's some irony in it. Bamforth Automotive and MARINE
goes waaayyyy back. My original camera store(1977) was in an adjacent building which was also owned by Coral Bamforth, founder. And my monthly lease was $175.00.
The Link directs viewers to Gary Favreau's attention. Gary, I think in his late 50s, is the grandson of the late Mr. Bamforth. Gary told me that this 1977 Slickcraft 215 Cuddy has been in the same family since new. Bamforth has launched, pulled, and winter-stored the boat since new. In 1998, the current generation owner had Gary's crew install a new engine, 5.0 L V-8. The overall updating was a $16,000 project during that winter.
The current owner, with growing family, lives in California and is only in the old family home in Maine for about a month each summer.

Oh, the price has been reduced to $4900.00

????????????????????????

HR

 

[bbchien]

Ummm...this is a bit off the subject, but I've got a buddy out in CA who has a 35' Hunter sloop he's selling, if anyone's interested in such a critter. Think they're asking 50K.

I used to won half of one of those. SixTonner. I made the error of taking it out of Buzzard's Bay to Hamilton. Flattish hull profile on these larve interior volume ships is PUNISHING in any kind of sea- including of course the Gulf Stream.

They're worth about 50% of that asking, just about now.

 

[2256Q]

I used to won half of one of those. SixTonner. I made the error of taking it out of Buzzard's Bay to Hamilton. Flattish hull profile on these larve interior volume ships is PUNISHING in any kind of sea- including of course the Gulf Stream.

They're worth about 50% of that asking, just about now.

I tried to tell my buddy that, but he said the owner was adamant. My comment was, 'Good Luck'.

 

[docmirror]

The Slickcraft is a good hull. The 215 never caught on because it had the OMC drive, and it is about 16 degree deadrise, which makes it a bit of a pounder. Also, it is kind of a boring boat.

The OMC drive suffers from several costly mistakes. First, the seals on the bellows were never quite up to the job, so you tend to get water into the drive. Next, the bevel on the lower pinion gears was first designed too shallow, and they will jump out of gear at high power as the case flexes. This will go on for a few months, until one time the gears will no remesh, and it will strip all the dogs off the forward gear. Then you get to drive all the way home in reverse. I doubt the redesigned gear sets are even available anymore.

But, it is your money, do what you like. BTW, if you want to avoid the annual winterizing you will need something called Fresh Water Cooling. That is a closed cooling system which has a heat exchanger in front like a little radiator. They maintain coolant in the engine block all the time, and the only flushing you need is the exchanger tank and the line from the outdrive pickup.

 

[bbchien]

I tried to tell my buddy that, but he said the owner was adamant. My comment was, 'Good Luck'.

Ah, for for the Souwester 54 on the open seas.... Ahhhhhhh. Wineglass hull, just a 12 foot beam. But, $4,900 as Jerry is looking 'at - that wouldn't even pay for the annual inspection of the ships' gumps.

Sigh.

 

[2256Q]

Ah, for for the Souwester 54 on the open seas.... Ahhhhhhh. Wineglass hull, just a 12 foot beam. But, $4,900 as Jerry is looking 'at - that wouldn't even pay for the annual inspection of the ships' gumps.

Sigh.

Long time ago I bought a 65' blue water schooner named the Ya Wim. Old boat, can't even remember who the builder was now, but oh, my goodness, what a delight to sail she was. Very laborious sailing, but when you're in your late twenties, who cares. Dry rot finally got the better of her and she had to scrapped. Knew she had some when I bought her, but thought I could handle it. The optimism of youth. Had about a zillion lead ingots in her bilges, and didn't really draw that much water for a 65 footer. Oh, well. A long time ago in a galaxy far away.

 

[Lawreston]

[ SNIP ]

So if you're going to be puttering around rocky coasts, or even where there might be logs partially submerged, give that some serious consideration.

And don't be that guy who doesn't wave back when waved to.

I always wave to the other folks on the motorcycles, as I used to do to other sailors.

And if I follow through and buy some kind of boat, only two miles from my house -- and I'm told they'll find room for me -- there'll be plenty of folks to whom I can wave. http://robinhoodmarinecenter.com/index.html

I was there today. The service manager was working on a big sailboat, BLUEPRINT(yes, her Boston owner is an architect) as I walked the docks. "It's the camera store man; how are you coming on your driveway paving and the stone wall?" When I looked surprised he continued, "I was visiting Eric, up the hill from you, the other day."
I don't recall having met him, previously.

HR

 

[Henning]

In 1998, the current generation owner had Gary's crew install a new engine, 5.0 L V-8. The overall updating was a $16,000 project during that winter.
The current owner, with growing family, lives in California and is only in the old family home in Maine for about a month each summer.

Oh, the price has been reduced to $4900.00

????????????????????????

HR

Well, I don't believe they spent $16,000 on it, sure doesn't show it, but that was 10 years ago so it's due for it again. BTW, they changed the engine, but not the drive, and that old OMC drive isn't well supported (or made) anymore.

 

[Henning]

I tried to tell my buddy that, but he said the owner was adamant. My comment was, 'Good Luck'.

Tell him if he wants to get the best money for it, truck it to Kentucky Lake, Table Rock Lake, or Truman Lake, he may get close to what he's asking there. In CA it's worth about $18k if it's in good shape.

 

[2256Q]

Tell him if he wants to get the best money for it, truck it to Kentucky Lake, Table Rock Lake, or Truman Lake, he may get close to what he's asking there. In CA it's worth about $18k if it's in good shape.

Will do. Thanks.

 

[Dean]

Tell him if he wants to get the best money for it, truck it to Kentucky Lake, Table Rock Lake, or Truman Lake, he may get close to what he's asking there. In CA it's worth about $18k if it's in good shape.

Henning I can tell you have been away from Lampe too long, it may bring half what he wants on TRL or LOZ.