ATP sel

AlanM

AlanM

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Nov 5, 2014
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110
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Illinois
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Needles
I do not fly for a living. I am 60 yo and obtained my private at 17. I've built time over the years to now where I have over 1500 hrs have passed the atp written b4 August 01 and just passed my atp oral. Guess what? The flight portion didn't go so well and I received the pink slip. I am now wondering if it even makes sense to continue. I don't feel that fire in the belly right now and don't know how to get it back. I am happy flying a cirrus sr22 as a comm instr pilot. Anybody have any comments or opinions as to whether or not I should continue this pursuit? Thanks.
 
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Why would you quit after passing the written, oral and part of the flight portion? There are some things you need to improve on to up your game, why not work on them?
 
We've all had disappointments, (been there, done that) get back
on the horse and get it done.
You'll be sorry later that you didn't follow through.
Dave
 
Thanks to all who responded - am about to drive 8 hrs to go to a flight school to GET IT DONE starting on Wednesday. I really do appreciate all of your comments!! Alan
 
AlanM said:
Thanks to all who responded - am about to drive 8 hrs to go to a flight school to GET IT DONE starting on Wednesday. I really do appreciate all of your comments!! Alan
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Good for you. I think you would have kicked yourself had you gone that far and then let it slip away. Good luck on the retest. I bet you'll do just fine!
 
Hey...you're from MN. I'm going to a flight training school in Coquet right outside of Duluth. Thanks for your comment.
 
I'm an Old timer ,got my ATP to satisfy an inner desire. . Used it to fly charter,till 911 . Keep challenging yourself. Flying is fun ,especially if your not trying to make a living.
 
If you don't require it then why do it? Bragging rights hardly justify the extra risk to your cert. the FAA has a fine history of metering out violation severity based on cert level. What gets an ATP grounded for 90 would likely be a letter for a PPL.
 
Captain said:
If you don't require it then why do it? Bragging rights hardly justify the extra risk to your cert. the FAA has a fine history of metering out violation severity based on cert level. What gets an ATP grounded for 90 would likely be a letter for a PPL.
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There's a bit more to it than that. Someone with an ATP/SEL who is not flying professionally will not get the same type of an enforcement as a Professional Pilot operating under a 121/135 certificate.
 
RotorAndWing said:
There's a bit more to it than that. Someone with an ATP/SEL who is not flying professionally will not get the same type of an enforcement as a Professional Pilot operating under a 121/135 certificate.
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Huh, hadn't looked at it that way before. I have no data or evidence contrary so I'm inclined to agree.

In that case, go get 'em tiger.
 
I keep reading all of the old and NEW posts and have to say again a big THANK YOU for all of your gracious and inspiring comments. I LOVE to fly / it is my passion. I think I would be letting myself down if I didn't finish what I started 40+ yrs ago. A source at Cirrus told me of an 81 y/o dude who went for his ATP SEL and obtained it. So, grandpa here is still going to "go get 'em." Thanks again for everyone who has and still might take the time to post. Alan
 
It's up to you, you have time to decide. Were you planning on using the ATP to make your retirement income? If not it's no biggie either way, in fact an ATP with no intent to use it is a liability, the FAA will hold you to higher standards should you make some error.
 
Henning said:
It's up to you, you have time to decide. Were you planning on using the ATP to make your retirement income? If not it's no biggie either way, in fact an ATP with no intent to use it is a liability, the FAA will hold you to higher standards should you make some error.
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:rolleyes2:
 
Henning said:
They do, the same incursion as a PP that will get you 'remedial training' will get a 90 day rip on an ATP.
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Here, I'll make it easy for you, here is post #12

Captain said:
If you don't require it then why do it? Bragging rights hardly justify the extra risk to your cert. the FAA has a fine history of metering out violation severity based on cert level. What gets an ATP grounded for 90 would likely be a letter for a PPL.
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There's a bit more to it than that. Someone with an ATP/SEL who is not flying professionally will not get the same type of an enforcement as a Professional Pilot operating under a 121/135 certificate.
Click to expand...
 
Based upon your logic, a recreational pilot should never aspire to become a private pilot or a private pilot should never aspire to become a commercial pilot...........just for the sheer joy of flying and the sheer joy of becoming more proficient. I am not seeking "bragging rights," but rather a goal to work towards -- one in which I'll become a more proficient pilot and memorializing that with a new certificate. I am NOT planning on retirement income from an ATP, but skill improvement -- I need a new goal at this stage in my life. I don't want to sit around being complacent with my skill set. Someone once said: "Familiarity breeds contempt." I've always been a goal-driven person and I'm not giving up now just because I'm retired. What about the grandpa who decides to get a college degree at age 80......maybe to finish what was started years ago. I don't see anybody getting hurt by an advanced pilot certificate. Your comment suggests fear...perhaps fear of your own complacency, fear of Big Brother, fear of something. I don't want to have fear driving my life decisions, and that is in part what this is all about -- a life decision.
 
My post is in response to this post on Nov 07 by Captain:

If you don't require it then why do it? Bragging rights hardly justify the extra risk to your cert. the FAA has a fine history of metering out violation severity based on cert level. What gets an ATP grounded for 90 would likely be a letter for a PPL.
 
AlanM said:
Based upon your logic, a recreational pilot should never aspire to become a private pilot or a private pilot should never aspire to become a commercial pilot...........just for the sheer joy of flying and the sheer joy of becoming more proficient. I am not seeking "bragging rights," but rather a goal to work towards -- one in which I'll become a more proficient pilot and memorializing that with a new certificate. I am NOT planning on retirement income from an ATP, but skill improvement -- I need a new goal at this stage in my life. I don't want to sit around being complacent with my skill set. Someone once said: "Familiarity breeds contempt." I've always been a goal-driven person and I'm not giving up now just because I'm retired. What about the grandpa who decides to get a college degree at age 80......maybe to finish what was started years ago. I don't see anybody getting hurt by an advanced pilot certificate. Your comment suggests fear...perhaps fear of your own complacency, fear of Big Brother, fear of something. I don't want to have fear driving my life decisions, and that is in part what this is all about -- a life decision.
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The logic doesn't follow. There is no requirement to seek a rating just because you have the training. There is nothing that prevents a person from attaining skills beyond their rating. It's just an issue of risk management.
 
Henning said:
The logic doesn't follow. There is no requirement to seek a rating just because you have the training. There is nothing that prevents a person from attaining skills beyond their rating. It's just an issue of risk management.
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Whatever. This is getting old. Thanks for your viewpoint nonetheless.
 
frfly172 said:
I'm an Old timer ,got my ATP to satisfy an inner desire. . Used it to fly charter,till 911 . Keep challenging yourself. Flying is fun ,especially if your not trying to make a living.
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This is a good synopsis of the situation.
 
Just don't get that MES rating, that is when they really start coming after you...
 
AlanM said:
Based upon your logic, a recreational pilot should never aspire to become a private pilot or a private pilot should never aspire to become a commercial pilot...........just for the sheer joy of flying and the sheer joy of becoming more proficient. I am not seeking "bragging rights," but rather a goal to work towards -- one in which I'll become a more proficient pilot and memorializing that with a new certificate. I am NOT planning on retirement income from an ATP, but skill improvement -- I need a new goal at this stage in my life. I don't want to sit around being complacent with my skill set. Someone once said: "Familiarity breeds contempt." I've always been a goal-driven person and I'm not giving up now just because I'm retired. What about the grandpa who decides to get a college degree at age 80......maybe to finish what was started years ago. I don't see anybody getting hurt by an advanced pilot certificate. Your comment suggests fear...perhaps fear of your own complacency, fear of Big Brother, fear of something. I don't want to have fear driving my life decisions, and that is in part what this is all about -- a life decision.
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Right. Even if there is some disadvantage to having a SE ATP, and I don't believe fear of enforcement action is a valid reason, you should do what you want to do.
 
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Henning said:
The logic doesn't follow. There is no requirement to seek a rating just because you have the training. There is nothing that prevents a person from attaining skills beyond their rating. It's just an issue of risk management.
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I wouldn't feel like I had accomplished anything until the FAA had put their seal of approval on it, no matter how much I trained. So I get where he's coming from.
 
LDJones said:
I wouldn't feel like I had accomplished anything until the FAA had put their seal of approval on it, no matter how much I trained. So I get where he's coming from.
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The FAA isn't about giving positive affirmation to bolster egos. The FAA is there to police standards for the public welfare. Doesn't really matter regardless, until someone gets maimed or killed, that's the only time it would make a real difference. Hold whatever ticket you like, just don't **** someone up and it'll all be good.
 
AlanM said:
Based upon your logic, a recreational pilot should never aspire to become a private pilot or a private pilot should never aspire to become a commercial pilot...........just for the sheer joy of flying and the sheer joy of becoming more proficient. I am not seeking "bragging rights," but rather a goal to work towards -- one in which I'll become a more proficient pilot and memorializing that with a new certificate. I am NOT planning on retirement income from an ATP, but skill improvement -- I need a new goal at this stage in my life. I don't want to sit around being complacent with my skill set. Someone once said: "Familiarity breeds contempt." I've always been a goal-driven person and I'm not giving up now just because I'm retired. What about the grandpa who decides to get a college degree at age 80......maybe to finish what was started years ago. I don't see anybody getting hurt by an advanced pilot certificate. Your comment suggests fear...perhaps fear of your own complacency, fear of Big Brother, fear of something. I don't want to have fear driving my life decisions, and that is in part what this is all about -- a life decision.
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My comment suggests fear? I don't see that. This entire thread suggests fear of oneself not being able to progress without some marker or goal.

Comparing recreational to private with private to ATP doesn't compare. You see, you get extra privileges by getting your private. You get to fly your friends, you get to fly bigger planes, longer ranges, faster, blah blah blah it all gets better.

Private to ATP...not so much. You get NOTHING as far as extra privileges go. My point is that. Why do it? I figured it was bragging rights or ego. You say no, that's not it...it's because you need a goal to drive yourself to do something. Okay, didn't think of that.

But I say that's very self aware of your own limitations (needing some government approval or something to keep you going) and a sad way to live a life.

I'm in no way suggesting not working towards proficiency or being the best you can be. I'm simply saying a piece of plastic with some ink arranged a certain way to spell ATP doesn't make a hill of beans of difference. I still think you're going to be scrutinized with a heaver hand than a private if the evil eye of an enforcement action ever gazes your way.

I'll tell you first hand I was no better a pilot the day after I passed my check ride for ATP. I did feel good about it and called my dad to tell him. But it was ego and pride that made the call.
 
Private to ATP may get you insurance qualified to fly certain equipment. Private to IFR, and Private to Commercial certainly does as well.. Depends on the policy...
 
ja_user said:
Private to ATP may get you insurance qualified to fly certain equipment. Private to IFR, and Private to Commercial certainly does as well.. Depends on the policy...
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I know a guy flies a Citation II SP on a PP-IR with a type on it, he's also typed on the Lear 25 he used to own. Insurance doesn't care about ratings beyond IR or what is required for the operation, it's all about time in type and recency.
 
Henning said:
I know a guy flies a Citation II SP on a PP-IR with a type on it, he's also typed on the Lear 25 he used to own. Insurance doesn't care about ratings beyond IR or what is required for the operation, it's all about time in type and recency.
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Some policies do, some don't....
 
Henning said:
The FAA isn't about giving positive affirmation to bolster egos. The FAA is there to police standards for the public welfare. Doesn't really matter regardless, until someone gets maimed or killed, that's the only time it would make a real difference. Hold whatever ticket you like, just don't **** someone up and it'll all be good.
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Not sure where I implied that's what they do. Recognizing what they DO do is where the satisfaction would come by achieving the rating.
 
Hmm, were you ever planning on doing the ATP-AMEL ride? Or just ASEL? Because if you do ASEL before the AMEL then you'd later have to take the new ATP-ME written exam which first requires the ATP-CTP course.
 
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