ATC Privatization

Radar Contact

Radar Contact

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Display name:
Kevin
Radar Contact said:
I don't recall seeing a link posted here so I am posting from another aviation forum. For those that care (thinking most of us) you can click the link and it literally takes one minute to complete and send to the appropriate officials.

The user fee bill is out of committee and headed for a vote by the full House.

http://govt.eaa.org/?mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiTmpRNU4yUm1NMll3WVdZeCIsInQiOiIxVlwvNVd6TE02RWp6ZCtYSjkyNUNyRStja1wvRmFjSkJJMjVHZVJWSnBDTHFiMmorNFV4M0phcUJJNnFaTTZlQzl3OWVFeVlTUlhtZHozNTE4RnJxak5RbTJ3a0lDOU1qek5OOWx2alhNZnoxODV3eFZsdGNETWZJNjVJTlJ5cFJlIn0=
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Better yet, call your congressperson and talk to the staffer responsible for Transportation. Makes a better statement than email. Send the email but also call.
 
murphey said:
Better yet, call your congressperson and talk to the staffer responsible for Transportation. Makes a better statement than email. Send the email but also call.
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I agree. But to the people who won't take the time to call this takes a minute and is better than rolling over on this.
 
Radar Contact said:
I don't recall seeing a link posted here so I am posting from another aviation forum. For those that care (thinking most of us) you can click the link and it literally takes one minute to complete and send to the appropriate officials.

The user fee bill is out of committee and headed for a vote by the full House.

http://govt.eaa.org/?mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiTmpRNU4yUm1NMll3WVdZeCIsInQiOiIxVlwvNVd6TE02RWp6ZCtYSjkyNUNyRStja1wvRmFjSkJJMjVHZVJWSnBDTHFiMmorNFV4M0phcUJJNnFaTTZlQzl3OWVFeVlTUlhtZHozNTE4RnJxak5RbTJ3a0lDOU1qek5OOWx2alhNZnoxODV3eFZsdGNETWZJNjVJTlJ5cFJlIn0=
Click to expand...

There are no GA user fees in the house bill....
 
US Senate:

https://www.senate.gov/reference/common/faq/How_to_correspond_senators.htm

US House:

http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/

--

I think they take much more notice of a personal e-mail than they do those mass-mailed varieties.

Several years ago I emailed my representative and senators about something, probably related to user-fees or something. I contacted all of them, then pretty much forgot about it. Within I a week I got a telephone call from a staffer in one office, and responses from the others.

In my case, KS is a very pro-GA State and my Rep and Senators pay attention to us GA guys.
 
Clip4 said:
User fees for business jets are long over due.
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Not asking in a defensive way, but curious as to your thoughts as to why user fees for business jets are long overdue?
 
Cluemeister said:
Not asking in a defensive way, but curious as to your thoughts as to why user fees for business jets are long overdue?
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Because the airline ticket buying public is subsidizing both ATC services and airports for business jets flying 100+ days a year. If you look at most airport improvements, runway expansions to service business jets top the list. AOPA's argument that these jets are using surplus ATC services is not accurate. If you are operating a 6 million dollar jet, paying a flight crew, an ATC fee is peanuts.
 
Clip4 said:
User fees for business jets are long over due.
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They're hit hard enough on FBO ramps. Not sure why you feel they deserve added fee's over other GA operations.
 
Privatization is going to be one huge mistake. And I will be there to tell you I told you so.

tex
 
A Canadian member on another aviation forum said that since privatization of their ATC system and the user fees incurred by the airlines, the price of a ticket in Canada is resulting in people crossing the border into the U.S. where they get cheaper fares.

Second hand information. TIFWIW.
 
Norman said:
A Canadian member on another aviation forum said that since privatization of their ATC system and the user fees incurred by the airlines, the price of a ticket in Canada is resulting in people crossing the border into the U.S. where they get cheaper fares.

Second hand information. TIFWIW.
Click to expand...

This is my concern. I don't know if the airlines would just "soak up the extra cost" without raising prices to offset the extra money they have to spend.

I really don't think user fees will hit GA, or many in GA will unplug, creating more risk for the people paying the most for the system (airlines).
 
StevieTimes said:
This is my concern. I don't know if the airlines would just "soak up the extra cost" without raising prices to offset the extra money they have to spend.

I really don't think user fees will hit GA, or many in GA will unplug, creating more risk for the people paying the most for the system (airlines).
Click to expand...

You can bet any increase in cost will result in higher fares.
 
If this were to pass - which company would likely win the contract and reap the rewards? Lockheed?
 
Question 1- Lets say a class D airport pick my home base Juneau, AK. I'm sure Alaska Airlines pays a fee per movement, takeoff and landing plus the use of the terminal to load and unload passengers. Do the other commercial operations that do not use the terminal pay a movement fee based on weight and number of flights?

Question 2- How many GA flights per day are there in the US and how would you collect a user fee on GA aircraft not filing a flight plan or flying out of uncontrolled fields?
 
StevieTimes said:
This is my concern. I don't know if the airlines would just "soak up the extra cost" without raising prices to offset the extra money they have to spend.
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Norman said:
You can bet any increase in cost will result in higher fares.
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Count on it.

The airlines will most definitely not just "soak up the extra cost". Fares will be padded accordingly.
 
Trying not to turn this in to political thread. Hope to keep it just in support of continuing the GA freedoms we have.

I received this in reply to the link I posted at the top from one of my states senators.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Thank you for contacting me to share your views on air traffic control (ATC) privatization. I appreciate you taking the time to make me aware of your concerns on this important matter.

Congress has consistently rejected proposals to privatize our Nation's ATC system over the past 40 years. Despite bipartisan concern, the Trump Administration's Fiscal Year 2018 Budget included another ATC privatization proposal.

As a pilot, I believe the American ATC system is safe, reliable and should remain under the authority of the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA). I do not take our air traffic controllers for granted and I will not gamble with the safety of the flying public. The FAA successfully manages an airspace that is not only the busiest and most complex, but also the safest in the entire world. Important FAA programs, such as NextGen, are modernizing air traffic technologies and procedures to meet future needs.

Canada and the United Kingdom transitioned to a private, corporate structure in 1996 and 2001, respectively. While these systems lowered long-term costs, the changes came after lengthy implementation efforts, and in the case of the United Kingdom, a failure that required a government bailout. We cannot afford similar problems in our ATC modernization efforts.

I am concerned privatizing ATC would be a risky, expensive and turbulent transition. Worst of all, the Trump Administration's proposal could jeopardize the safety of the traveling public and increase the costs of flying for travelers and aviation enthusiasts. As Congress debates FAA reauthorization, I will continue fighting to make sure our aviation system is safe, efficient and affordable.

Thank you again for contacting me on this important issue. If you would like more information on my work in the Senate, please visit my website at www.duckworth.senate.gov. You can access my voting record and see what I am doing to address today’s most important issues. I hope that you will continue to share your views


Sincerely,

The Honorable Tammy Duckworth
United States Senator
 
I fear it's only a matter of time before we all have to take a bite out of this sh*t sandwich. From a business standpoint it just makes so much sense. We'll dodge the bullet for as long as we can but I'm convinced it's unfortunately inevitable.
 
Art VanDelay said:
I fear it's only a matter of time before we all have to take a bite out of this sh*t sandwich. From a business standpoint it just makes so much sense. We'll dodge the bullet for as long as we can but I'm convinced it's unfortunately inevitable.
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What makes you think it's inevitable?
 
Radar Contact said:
What section was it that prohibits user fees again....
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This one:

  1. 9 ‘‘(7) Charges and fees may not be imposed for

  2. 10 air traffic services provided with respect to aircraft

  3. 11 operations conducted pursuant to part 91, 133, 135,

  4. 12 136, or 137 of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations.

  5. 13 ‘‘(8) Charges and fees may not be structured

  6. 14 such that air traffic services users have incentives to

  7. 15 operate in ways that diminish safety to avoid the

  8. 16 charges and fees.

  9. 17 ‘‘(9) Charges and fees, based on reasonable and

  10. 18 financially sound projections, may not generate reve-

  11. 19 nues exceeding the Corporation’s current and antici-

  12. 20 pated financial requirements in relation to the provi-

  13. 21 sion of air traffic services.
 
Norman said:
A Canadian member on another aviation forum said that since privatization of their ATC system and the user fees incurred by the airlines, the price of a ticket in Canada is resulting in people crossing the border into the U.S. where they get cheaper fares.

Second hand information. TIFWIW.
Click to expand...
I'm sure that there are some that travel here to fly. I know a number of folks that travel to Canada because fares on certain routes are less there (and security is an improvement over TSA). It's a wash, I suppose.
 
Radar Contact said:
Trying not to turn this in to political thread. Hope to keep it just in support of continuing the GA freedoms we have.

I received this in reply to the link I posted at the top from one of my states senators.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Thank you for contacting me to share your views on air traffic control (ATC) privatization. I appreciate you taking the time to make me aware of your concerns on this important matter.

Congress has consistently rejected proposals to privatize our Nation's ATC system over the past 40 years. Despite bipartisan concern, the Trump Administration's Fiscal Year 2018 Budget included another ATC privatization proposal.

As a pilot, I believe the American ATC system is safe, reliable and should remain under the authority of the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA). I do not take our air traffic controllers for granted and I will not gamble with the safety of the flying public. The FAA successfully manages an airspace that is not only the busiest and most complex, but also the safest in the entire world. Important FAA programs, such as NextGen, are modernizing air traffic technologies and procedures to meet future needs.

Canada and the United Kingdom transitioned to a private, corporate structure in 1996 and 2001, respectively. While these systems lowered long-term costs, the changes came after lengthy implementation efforts, and in the case of the United Kingdom, a failure that required a government bailout. We cannot afford similar problems in our ATC modernization efforts.

I am concerned privatizing ATC would be a risky, expensive and turbulent transition. Worst of all, the Trump Administration's proposal could jeopardize the safety of the traveling public and increase the costs of flying for travelers and aviation enthusiasts. As Congress debates FAA reauthorization, I will continue fighting to make sure our aviation system is safe, efficient and affordable.

Thank you again for contacting me on this important issue. If you would like more information on my work in the Senate, please visit my website at www.duckworth.senate.gov. You can access my voting record and see what I am doing to address today’s most important issues. I hope that you will continue to share your views


Sincerely,

The Honorable Tammy Duckworth
United States Senator
Click to expand...

Senator Duckworth appears to have a better understanding of the ATC privatization issue and can express it more clearly than the EAA form letter we're sending *to* our Congress Critters.
 
Radar Contact said:
Trying not to turn this in to political thread. Hope to keep it just in support of continuing the GA freedoms we have.

I received this in reply to the link I posted at the top from one of my states senators.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Thank you for contacting me to share your views on air traffic control (ATC) privatization. I appreciate you taking the time to make me aware of your concerns on this important matter.

Congress has consistently rejected proposals to privatize our Nation's ATC system over the past 40 years. Despite bipartisan concern, the Trump Administration's Fiscal Year 2018 Budget included another ATC privatization proposal.

As a pilot, I believe the American ATC system is safe, reliable and should remain under the authority of the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA). I do not take our air traffic controllers for granted and I will not gamble with the safety of the flying public. The FAA successfully manages an airspace that is not only the busiest and most complex, but also the safest in the entire world. Important FAA programs, such as NextGen, are modernizing air traffic technologies and procedures to meet future needs.

Canada and the United Kingdom transitioned to a private, corporate structure in 1996 and 2001, respectively. While these systems lowered long-term costs, the changes came after lengthy implementation efforts, and in the case of the United Kingdom, a failure that required a government bailout. We cannot afford similar problems in our ATC modernization efforts.

I am concerned privatizing ATC would be a risky, expensive and turbulent transition. Worst of all, the Trump Administration's proposal could jeopardize the safety of the traveling public and increase the costs of flying for travelers and aviation enthusiasts. As Congress debates FAA reauthorization, I will continue fighting to make sure our aviation system is safe, efficient and affordable.

Thank you again for contacting me on this important issue. If you would like more information on my work in the Senate, please visit my website at www.duckworth.senate.gov. You can access my voting record and see what I am doing to address today’s most important issues. I hope that you will continue to share your views

Boilerplate BS.


Sincerely,

The Honorable Tammy Duckworth
United States Senator
Click to expand...
 
I am on a SW Airline flight today and at the check in desk they have a stack of handouts that say Tell congress to Modernize Air Traffic Control go to this site.
http://www.ontimeflights.org/
They say ATC is inefficient with wasted time and money. They are telling the none pilot travelers any delay is the ATC systems problem.
 
Scott@KTYR said:
I am on a SW Airline flight today and at the check in desk they have a stack of handouts that say Tell congress to Modernize Air Traffic Control go to this site.
http://www.ontimeflights.org/
They say ATC is inefficient with wasted time and money. They are telling the none pilot travelers any delay is the ATC systems problem.
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And unfortunately they're reaching out to a larger audience with the general public. I'm sure there's some inconsistencies within the present day system, but I don't see any wasted time issues from my experience. At least nothing that a privatized system would fix, but that's just my 2c.
 
Ryanb said:
And unfortunately they're reaching out to a larger audience with the general public. I'm sure there's some inconsistencies within the present day system, but I don't see any wasted time issues from my experience. At least nothing that a privatized system would fix, but that's just my 2c.
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I agree. Weather and jet equipment repair delays are not ATC problems
 
Scott@KTYR said:
I agree. Weather and jet equipment repair delays are not ATC problems
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That's true, unfortunately though those issues are a very small part of the problem. The largest part of the problem is in fact the ATC system - more specifically trying to get all those flights through an increasingly constricting system.

Look, the amount of people wanting to travel is not getting smaller and neither is the desired frequencies between popular routes. Airlines in a deregulated system have to be as big of whores as possible and are only too happy to sell more ticktets to more places to more people. The trouble is though that the ATC system in its current format has limits to the amounts of volume it can accept and process. In many parts of our country those limits were long ago exceeded.
 
Art VanDelay said:
That's true, unfortunately though those issues are a very small part of the problem. The largest part of the problem is in fact the ATC system - more specifically trying to get all those flights through an increasingly constricting system.

Look, the amount of people wanting to travel is not getting smaller and neither is the desired frequencies between popular routes. Airlines in a deregulated system have to be as big of whores as possible and are only too happy to sell more ticktets to more places to more people. The trouble is though that the ATC system in its current format has limits to the amounts of volume it can accept and process. In many parts of our country those limits were long ago exceeded.
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Frequencies nor transponders or ATC are the limit. Runways and weather are the limits. Additional frequenct standards have already been agreed too under ICAO. Currently FAA has said the cost and requirements do not require such a change. In addition ACARS and other systems are available tp reduce radio congestion if SWA was willing to pay for the system....

Otherwise, show me where ATC is truly limited and the shortage is not the runways.

Tim

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk
 
Art VanDelay said:
That's true, unfortunately though those issues are a very small part of the problem. The largest part of the problem is in fact the ATC system - more specifically trying to get all those flights through an increasingly constricting system.

Look, the amount of people wanting to travel is not getting smaller and neither is the desired frequencies between popular routes. Airlines in a deregulated system have to be as big of whores as possible and are only too happy to sell more ticktets to more places to more people. The trouble is though that the ATC system in its current format has limits to the amounts of volume it can accept and process. In many parts of our country those limits were long ago exceeded.
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I agree with what you're saying. Privatization will not fix that.

To steal from @nauga:

Radar Contact,
who can only put 20 lbs in a 20 lb bag
 
Radar Contact said:
I agree with what you're saying. Privatization will not fix that.

To steal from @nauga:

Radar Contact,
who can only put 20 lbs in a 20 lb bag
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They're not concerned with fixing it - just doing it cheaper and privatization definitely does that. We live in a world where cheap seems to always win.
 
tspear said:
Frequencies nor transponders or ATC are the limit. Runways and weather are the limits. Additional frequenct standards have already been agreed too under ICAO. Currently FAA has said the cost and requirements do not require such a change. In addition ACARS and other systems are available tp reduce radio congestion if SWA was willing to pay for the system....

Otherwise, show me where ATC is truly limited and the shortage is not the runways.

Tim

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

It sounds likely you don't fly the same IFR routings that I do. Tell me where most of your IFR flights are from and to ?
 
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