ATC and T routes

[iamtheari]

I mostly file GPS direct except for the mountains, where lack of pressurization and turbos keeps my flying below 15,000 and ideally below 12,000. I have found a few good routes over the Colorado Plateau using Victor airways, and Center is usually quick with a shortcut since they know the minimum IFR altitude and where they can keep me at my preferred altitudes of 9,000-12,000. But I have filed T airways a couple of times and, both times, Center seemed to be completely unaware of the airways or even what they were.

Is the GPS airway rollout just going that slowly, am I the only person actually filing those routes, or is something else going on?

 

[robin ardoin]

Same here. Usually cleared on a Victor airway but often it is amended to direct after a short period (flatlands).

 

[midlifeflyer]

I’ve filed T-Routes in the northeast. Potomac Approach seems to like them for going around the DC area. Those have been cleared as filed with no changes other than shortcuts. But attempt on routes other than those have, so far for me, gotten amendments either before or after departure.

 

[iamtheari]

I’ve filed T-Routes in the northeast. Potomac Approach seems to like them for going around the DC area. Those have been cleared as filed with no changes other than shortcuts. But attempt on routes other than those have, so far for me, gotten amendments either before or after departure.

I get cleared as filed, but when I check in with the controller covering the area I get the radio equivalent of a blank stare. Today they asked “I don’t know what that is, can you tell me the bearing from the VOR?” I just told him the Victor airway that matched the Tango one. It didn’t make a big difference in this case. But in some places, like around Rock Springs, Wyoming, the MEA can be very different between the two.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I get cleared as filed, but when I check in with the controller covering the area I get the radio equivalent of a blank stare. Today they asked “I don’t know what that is, can you tell me the bearing from the VOR?”

That’s why I mentioned the lack of amendments vs receiving them. Here’s an example of a cleared and flown as filed T-Route.KLHZ HOUKY T295 GRACO CIDOB ETX KABE. The only change was a shortcut from PHL after CIDOB.

“Busy” may be the difference. T routes are in theory designed to follow real ATC paths, but the need for them in areas like DC is somewhat different than Wyoming where, as you say, it may be more for the ability to have lower MEAs.

 

[iamtheari]

That’s why I mentioned the lack of amendments vs receiving them. Here’s an example of a cleared and flown as filed T-Route.KLHZ HOUKY T295 GRACO CIDOB ETX KABE. The only change was a shortcut from PHL after CIDOB.

“Busy” may be the difference. T routes are in theory designed to follow real ATC paths, but the need for them in areas like DC is somewhat different than Wyoming where, as you say, it may be more for the ability to have lower MEAs.

There seem to be two types of T routes. One to go around rocks at lower altitudes than a VOR-based airway would require (either due to not needing a VOR or simply not needing to be able to receive the VOR signal). The other to go around busy places with less talking than vectors would require. For a bizarre example of the latter, look at T286 or T331 south of FONIA. I have no idea what necessitated those routes and I doubt anyone has filed them since they were charted.

I suppose it's possible that I'm the first person who ever filed the T route I did this weekend, which is why ATC wasn't familiar with it. It's a pretty desolate area and most people flying there go VFR or a lot higher than I can. One time, I asked if they had any PIREPs for icing ahead of me and Center just said "nobody ever flies there."

 

[Pinecone]

I’ve filed T-Routes in the northeast. Potomac Approach seems to like them for going around the DC area. Those have been cleared as filed with no changes other than shortcuts. But attempt on routes other than those have, so far for me, gotten amendments either before or after departure.

My experience also. And sometimes amendments both before take off and in flight.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

But I have filed T airways a couple of times and, both times, Center seemed to be completely unaware of the airways or even what they were.

Is the GPS airway rollout just going that slowly, am I the only person actually filing those routes, or is something else going on?

I'm guessing a lack of use. (Try asking for a contact approach or a cruise clearance sometime.) I use pretty much exactly one T route, T265 around C90. It's the shortest, easiest way to go east from here without going feet wet. Controllers are very well acquainted with that one.

OTOH, there are some really bizarre routes in less populated areas of the country, like...

For a bizarre example of the latter, look at T286 or T331 south of FONIA.

... that one. I mean, Victor airways aren't exactly straight, but they're at least reasonably going towards places airplanes might go. I guess that makes sense, because back in the bad old days before /G and /I, everyone followed them. But these T routes are often just weird and don't seem to exist for any particular reason, so I'm guessing that many of them are just never used.

 

[BillTIZ]

edit.. "Today they asked “I don’t know what that is, can you tell me the bearing from the VOR?” ... edit

And just which VOR would you like a bearing from? As you can see, there are 4 locations here were the VORs are decommissioned and gone. Some older airways are gone and didn't even get T routes to replace them. EEN (KYENN), MHT (MANCH), LWM (LWRNC) and PSM (PEASE) are TACAN/DME only. The VHF frequency is for tuning the DME portion only that is used on some LOC/ILS approaches to those airports.

 

[midlifeflyer]

And just which VOR would you like a bearing from?

Whichever one you want. I read that request as, “I don't know what that is, can you tell me the bearing from the a VOR?”

That kind of thing can also apply to VFR. I was heading to a private airfield in the NC mountains and asked for flight following. "We don't know where that is." So I gave them the ID for a public airport about 10 NM away. When I got closer, I told the controller who was working me, "I'm heading to a private airfield; I'll call you to terminate when I have it in sight."