Asus eee Pad Transformer

TMetzinger said:
I like it.... good to see some serious competition in the market. If only the eee pads weren't sold out or getting a price premium ($500+ from resellers on Amazon)
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And according to those amazon resellers, it's in stock. What's an extra $50 if you really want it. Then again, there's a reason they "have it in stock".
 
They could price it at $1. If it isn't there, it isn't there.
Fry has it for $499. Various AMAZON retailers run from $497. BESTBUY lists two models, $399 for A1 and $499 B1. Depending on which they aren't stocking might make a difference in the price.
 
Difference is in the size of the SD card - the 399 one offers 16 GB and the 499 one offers 32 GB. The ones on Amazon for 500 are 16 GB...

I'll hope they come in to Best Buy with 16 GB someday.
 
I am getting tired of Google's perpetual Beta business model, and software updates that break things.
I am deploying 12 IPads at work. I hate Apple, but I can't deal with the support issues with Android.
 
PilotAlan said:
I am getting tired of Google's perpetual Beta business model, and software updates that break things.
I am deploying 12 IPads at work. I hate Apple, but I can't deal with the support issues with Android.
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Spoken like someone thatt has never used a google product.
 
SkyHog said:
Spoken like someone thatt has never used a google product.
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I have owned two Android phones (a Nexus One [the most pure Google device ever made] and a Droid X I still have), tested a Xoom extensively, plus tested a Galaxy Tab. I have Chrome OS installed on my Mac under Parallels.

I have had Exchange email break twice when an Android software incremental update once caused me to stop receiving email, and once to stop sending email. The Xoom was spectacularly unimpressive, as was the Galaxy Tab.

I have a GMail account, use Google Docs, and a whole bunch of other Google products.
But the plain fact is, Google's core product is search and directing your access to data. Phones, tablets, OSes and everything else is designed to control and protect their near monopoly on search.

They only have to make their free OS good enough, not great. Not stable, not predictable, just good enough.
That's not good enough for me, in an enterprise environment where users aren't techies and I can't afford or provide the level of tech support Android needs.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Just like Mac OS X plays second fiddle to Windows for desktop aviation apps...
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Wait a sec. There are desktop apps? Who uses 'em, and for what?

Been on Mac so long I guess the web-based Apps have always done everything I've needed.

I saw some dumb thing back in the Windows 95 days from VRef for doing airplane appraisals, but it looked like a kid wrote it as his summer-school project for daddy's company.

Haha. What else is out there? I guess if there were something insanely cool I could put it in virtual machine... Which is where all my Windows machines have resided for a long time now after doing p2v to them...
 
PilotAlan said:
I have owned two Android phones (a Nexus One [the most pure Google device ever made] and a Droid X I still have), tested a Xoom extensively, plus tested a Galaxy Tab. I have Chrome OS installed on my Mac under Parallels.

I have had Exchange email break twice when an Android software incremental update once caused me to stop receiving email, and once to stop sending email. The Xoom was spectacularly unimpressive, as was the Galaxy Tab.

I have a GMail account, use Google Docs, and a whole bunch of other Google products.
But the plain fact is, Google's core product is search and directing your access to data. Phones, tablets, OSes and everything else is designed to control and protect their near monopoly on search.

They only have to make their free OS good enough, not great. Not stable, not predictable, just good enough.
That's not good enough for me, in an enterprise environment where users aren't techies and I can't afford or provide the level of tech support Android needs.
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Yeah, except none of that has ever happened.

Google is "beta" because its constantly under development, but there are no patches pushed out without your knowledge, and those patches are very well documented. If something stops working, rolling the update back is easy (and doesn't take a "techie" to figure out how to do it).

Google's patches are tested extensively, and I've only ever found one major bug in the entire time I've been using the platform (hint: I had my hands on a G1 before they were for sale, so there's a chance I was among a very small group of people using the device).

The Xoom was a horrible tablet because Motorola made it. The Droid was also a fairly unspectacular phone once people got over the newness of it. In fact, Android 2.0 was the only thing that made that phone worth having.

BTW, Google's core product hasn't been "search" for a long time now. Their core product is Google Apps now. That is what gets their focus, because that is where the money is. That and Google Maps, I'm not sure which is the biggest focus for them lately.

Its fine to hate on Google, but hate on them for the right reasons: "They have access to too much of our data." "They have no checks and balances on the power they're taking." Hell, even "I prefer x device over Google" is fine, but trotting out the BS "Constant Beta" line is a cheapshot. Its taking their term and using it against them.

Android is no more "beta" than OSX is. Afterall, updates actually happen more frequently there.

Note: Can an Apple Patch on the iPhone/iPad be rolled back? I've sure never seen a way.
 
denverpilot said:
Wait a sec. There are desktop apps? Who uses 'em, and for what?
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Uuuhhhhhhhhh... :dunno:

They're out there. Seattle Avionics Voyager, for example. But I get along without 'em just fine, especially now with ForeFlight on the iPad.

Been on Mac so long I guess the web-based Apps have always done everything I've needed.
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There was a time several years ago when the AOPA flight planner wasn't on the web, and it was PC-only... I think that's a large part of why it's on the web now, they heard from a lot of Mac users.
 
SkyHog said:
Yeah, except none of that has ever happened.
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Looks like it has, in Alan's own personal experience. :dunno:

Google is "beta" because its constantly under development,
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No, Google has way too much crap that they call "beta" for freaking EVER because they don't want to be held responsible for bugs.

The Xoom was a horrible tablet because Motorola made it.
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Sad, but very true!

BTW, Google's core product hasn't been "search" for a long time now. Their core product is Google Apps now. That is what gets their focus, because that is where the money is. That and Google Maps, I'm not sure which is the biggest focus for them lately.
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Disagree. While there is money in Apps, Google's core product is to get you to look at Google stuff a gazillion times a day so they can sell ads.

Note: Can an Apple Patch on the iPhone/iPad be rolled back? I've sure never seen a way.
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Yes, but they purposely make it hard because the main reason people do it is to jailbreak. It's not that hard on the Mac, though, if you're running Time Machine. Drop back to whenever, restore the iPhone/iPad backup, go to iTunes, restore from backup. Done.

Or, you can roll it back by "updating" to a manually-chosen iOS file. BTDT once. I doubt this is really much different than what you do with Android. :dunno:
 
SkyHog said:
Yeah, except none of that has ever happened.
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You're saying my Android device never had Exchange Activesync break after a software update?
i.e., I'm lying.

If something stops working, rolling the update back is easy (and doesn't take a "techie" to figure out how to do it).
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No, but it generates a help desk call, and determining what is happening, then figuring out that an update was applied, etc etc.

Google's patches are tested extensively, and I've only ever found one major bug in the entire time I've been using the platform (hint: I had my hands on a G1 before they were for sale, so there's a chance I was among a very small group of people using the device).
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I'm happy for you. But they aren't tested on every platform, and every carrier and device manufacturer can and do modify the patches to work with every different device and with the firmware and changes the manufacturers have applied.
You may not want to address the fragmentation of the Android platform, but it's there and its a serious problem.
In a production/corporate environment, solidity and predictability are a virtue. I told you I despise Apple, but it's the only practical option right now.

BTW, Google's core product hasn't been "search" for a long time now. Their core product is Google Apps now. That is what gets their focus, because that is where the money is. That and Google Maps, I'm not sure which is the biggest focus for them lately.
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Google maps is a function of search and location-based services. They make money off your searching for locations.
How do they make money on Apps?

Their core business is targeted ads. All of the "free" services are designed to learn more about you so they can target the ads better, and route you to their services so they can get your eyeballs and clicks for revenue.
All these things build a castle around their primary business, ads, and search, which is the opportunity to present your targeted ads.

Its fine to hate on Google, but hate on them for the right reasons: "They have access to too much of our data." "They have no checks and balances on the power they're taking." Hell, even "I prefer x device over Google" is fine, but trotting out the BS "Constant Beta" line is a cheapshot. Its taking their term and using it against them.

Android is no more "beta" than OSX is. Afterall, updates actually happen more frequently there.
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In OSX, all updates to all installed software come through the OS. In Android, apps update separately from the OS. Not a valid comparison.

I don't hate Google. You are being extremely defensive FOR Google, however.
If you can't understand how stable devices are a better choice than current Android tablets, then we have nothing further to discuss. Especially ironic considering you said the Xoom is junk.
 
PilotAlan said:
If you can't understand how stable devices are a better choice than current Android tablets, then we have nothing further to discuss. Especially ironic considering you said the Xoom is junk.
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The Xoom is junk, and not every Android device is great (FWIW, the original iPhone was crap too, but that's because it lacked core features that every comparable device had at the time).

The stable thing is where I take exception. Stability is based upon the hardware, as the Android OS itself is quite stable. I think writing off the entire line because of 2 bad experiences (I didn't infer that you were lying, but rather that perhaps the issue was blown out of proportion since updates are easily rolled back) and referring to the entire operation as "beta" and not ready for production is a cheap shot at a platform that often exceeds that which Apple puts out.

It'd be like saying Windows 7 is beta and not really good for production use because a new Dell Laptop has hardware issues.

Note - btw, that the core of Google's services is adWords and adSense. I misthought earlier. That drives money, and Search, Maps, Apps, Android, etc. all work to provide revenue through adWords and adSense.
 
SkyHog said:
Stability is based upon the hardware, as the Android OS itself is quite stable. I think writing off the entire line because of 2 bad experiences (I didn't infer that you were lying, but rather that perhaps the issue was blown out of proportion since updates are easily rolled back) and referring to the entire operation as "beta" and not ready for production is a cheap shot at a platform that often exceeds that which Apple puts out.
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Let me take another run at this.
The Nexus was a very good and stable device, running plain vanilla Android. However, each device manufacturer makes their own mods to firmware and software, and each carrier then makes a cumulative set of changes on top of that.
So, no two Android devices are created equal, and supporting them becomes challenging to say the least.
Then add to that that apps can be as stable or flaky as the developer chooses, and you set the stage for a wild range of OS versions, firmwares, carrier specific issues, plus wildly inconsistent apps, and you have a maintenance and support nightmare.

For my personal phone or tablet, I'll choose what I like and self support. But when trying to integrate them into an organization, that's not OK.

But me and my IT department were trying desperately to stay away from Apple devices. Email failures happened to me, my IT Director, and my City Manager. Some were attributable to software updates, some were never clearly identified to a root cause.
But now, I have an IPhone, simply because I don't trust Android.
And going back to the OP, I'm deploying iPads because they work.

PS, on the "perpetual beta" thing, if I have a problem with my GoDaddy.com email account, website, or other services, I call (480) 505-8877, 24x7x365.
If I have a problem with my Google account, who do I call? Where is support? There is none, go to a forum and look for answer.
That's the difference between a beta product and a production-grade product.
 
PilotAlan said:
PS, on the "perpetual beta" thing, if I have a problem with my GoDaddy.com email account, website, or other services, I call (480) 505-8877, 24x7x365.
If I have a problem with my Google account, who do I call? Where is support? There is none, go to a forum and look for answer.
That's the difference between a beta product and a production-grade product.
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http://www.google.com/support/a/bin/static.py?page=contacting_support.html

Google Support Page said:
Available for system critical event emergencies
Business and Education editions, 7 days a week, 24 hours a day
Estimated response time: Within minutes

U.S. Technical Support: 1-877-355-5787
International Technical Support: 1-404-978-9282
We recommend having your Support and Customer PINs handy when calling in.
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BTW - Google pulls apps out of Beta when development is completed. Its a slightly different model than most companies use, where they develop in Alpha, then test in Beta, then release and patch those releases.

Google develops in development, tests in Alpha, releases in Beta, and pulls out of Beta when the majority of all development stops. For reference, see Gmail, which is no longer beta.
 
SkyHog said:
Google develops in development, tests in Alpha, releases in Beta, and pulls out of Beta when the majority of all development stops. For reference, see Gmail, which is no longer beta.
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Yeah, but Gmail was in Beta for OVER FIVE YEARS.

And I don't buy what you're saying anyway - Now that GMail is out of beta, do you think they've stopped developing it?
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Yeah, but Gmail was in Beta for OVER FIVE YEARS.

And I don't buy what you're saying anyway - Now that GMail is out of beta, do you think they've stopped developing it?
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Its being developed, but not as actively as Google's other product offerings that are still "beta."

Remember, Dev is Dev, Alpha is Beta, Beta is production, Production is final.

Windows XP SP3 is the final version, but its still getting hotfixes and updates as necessary. That is where non-beta Google software lives. Supported and fixed, but not actively developed. I don't think you'll see any stunning NEW features in Gmail unless there is a major upgrade at some point.
 
SkyHog said:
Its being developed, but not as actively as Google's other product offerings that are still "beta."

Remember, Dev is Dev, Alpha is Beta, Beta is production, Production is final.
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I still fail to see how Google is significantly different than anyone else in that regard, though. Compare to Apple, for example - Dev/Alpha is all internal, Beta goes to developers, Production goes to the world. By the time it gets that far, there are very few bugs remaining.

Microsoft with their once-a-week updates is NOT how the rest of the industry operates, so Google really isn't that phenomenally great, they're just like everyone else (except MS).

Also, just because you can't see the updates happen doesn't mean that the bugs aren't there - I'm sure they still find bugs in GMail from time to time and fix them, but you never know the difference.
 
SkyHog said:
Its being developed, but not as actively as Google's other product offerings that are still "beta."

Remember, Dev is Dev, Alpha is Beta, Beta is production, Production is final.

Windows XP SP3 is the final version, but its still getting hotfixes and updates as necessary. That is where non-beta Google software lives. Supported and fixed, but not actively developed. I don't think you'll see any stunning NEW features in Gmail unless there is a major upgrade at some point.
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Gmail/Google Apps is definitely still under very active development.
 
SKYHOG:

Nick: What is your latest report re your Asus eee Pad Transformer? It's to be the Black Friday Special at Best Buy for $250.00. And the Keyboard for $99.00.
Should I camp out for the Friday midnight opening at Best Buy?

HR

I'm looking for something that, when I do craft fairs with my photos, enlargements, and greeting cards on display, I could access my extensive files of other images "back home" on my PC. "Oh, you're from Boothbay Harbor? Let me show you my aerial photos of that area. I can bring them right up on this Tablet." Could I do that with the Transformer?
 
Lawreston said:
SKYHOG:

Nick: What is your latest report re your Asus eee Pad Transformer? It's to be the Black Friday Special at Best Buy for $250.00. And the Keyboard for $99.00.
Should I camp out for the Friday midnight opening at Best Buy?

HR

I'm looking for something that, when I do craft fairs with my photos, enlargements, and greeting cards on display, I could access my extensive files of other images "back home" on my PC. "Oh, you're from Boothbay Harbor? Let me show you my aerial photos of that area. I can bring them right up on this Tablet." Could I do that with the Transformer?
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Its been a while now and i still love it. For what you're talking about, check out the dropnox app.
 
Avilution is imho the best moving map android app for pilots. It has a split screen feature that lets you view a map and other info (charts, plates, airport diagram, etc) simultaneously. Its not on the market. Avilution.com
 
I went to the Android dark side 1st due to the bargain HP Touchpad, of which I have *cough* 4. I just got the Samsung Galaxy Note over my long-awaited iPhone 4S. I've been sinking lotsa time just exploring apps. Google Navigator is amazing.

No regrets.
 
mikea said:
I went to the Android dark side 1st due to the bargain HP Touchpad, of which I have *cough* 4. I just got the Samsung Galaxy Note over my long-awaited iPhone 4S. I've been sinking lotsa time just exploring apps. Google Navigator is amazing.

No regrets.
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A co-worker just got one of those. He looks retarded with it up to his head. They're huge.
 
edcokpareke said:
Avilution is imho the best moving map android app for pilots. It has a split screen feature that lets you view a map and other info (charts, plates, airport diagram, etc) simultaneously. Its not on the market. Avilution.com
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How does it compare to Naviator? I've been using that for a bit and really like it.
 
mikea said:
I went to the Android dark side 1st due to the bargain HP Touchpad, of which I have *cough* 4.
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Four? Of the $99 specials?

[pulls out calculator... slaps forehead... "Coulda bought an iPad":D]
 
denverpilot said:
A co-worker just got one of those. He looks retarded with it up to his head. They're huge.
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LOL.

152554.strip.gif
 
rpadula said:
Four? Of the $99 specials?

[pulls out calculator... slaps forehead... "Coulda bought an iPad":D]
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All are 32GB for $149-$200. One iPad wouldn't give me 4 (5) screens. I was thinking I could sell one off, but I'm liking teh idea of having smart picture frames where I am.

I'm sure I'll get an iPad 3 so I'll have 5 tablets...and at any given time they'll all have dead batteries.
 
denverpilot said:
A co-worker just got one of those. He looks retarded with it up to his head. They're huge.
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We don't say retarded. You're on the list.

It's only a matter of having a big enough head and hands.

They sold a million units so far.

NSFW! Look at that! BEHOLD!
 
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jtheune said:
How does it compare to Naviator? I've been using that for a bit and really like it.
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So I haven't used Naviator, so I can't make a direct comparison. However, it has a couple of good features that I "think" naviator does not.

Like I mentioned, the split-screen functionality is a HUGE plus once you actually try it out. I don't think even foreflight has this. It also stitches sectionals, lo and hi charts etc nationwide. From some comments on Naviator's market page, it appears Naviator may be lacking there.

Finally, though it doesn't [yet] have geo-referenced tracking on approach plates, it has this awesome feature called "Runway Finder". Basically, it imposes your position relative to any runway of your choice at the destination airport. I then includes a DTK, DIS, and Descent Rate to the Runway threshold.

Again, I haven't used Naviator, but it appears it doesn't have some of these features. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Last edited:
Hi All. Just wanted to clear up some misinformation here. Naviator does indeed have a split screen feature, and in fact we have had that feature longer than AviationMaps has.

Sectionals and other charts are not currently stitched, but on the flip-side the margins of the charts are still viewable in Naviator. We may consider stitching the charts once the FAA decides what they are going to do about the proposed digital chart fees and product restructuring.

We do currently support geo-referenced approach plates and airport diagrams via Seattle Avionics ChartData and we have a few big features in the pipeline that will be released very soon.

Cheers,
Mike
 
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