aspiring pilot hitting some bumps in the road. Help?

kyle17428

Filing Flight Plan
Joined
Dec 4, 2015
Messages
13
Display Name

Display name:
Kyle
Here's the deal:
I have NO experience in aviation. Since I was young (younger than 5) I have always loved planes and anything related. When I was 18 I looked into going to become a pilot but found that its very unlikely to get any kind of employment in the field until you are 21-23. So I set it aside and lived life for a while. Now I am 24 and started on the path to getting into the profession.

The first thing I did was start to look into some ways to get the proper credentials to fly professionally. The "cheapest" and quickest reputable school I found was a place called Aviator College in Fort Pierce, FL. I contacted them and started getting myself setup to get started. The admissions contact convinced me that it would be prudent to fast track my entry to January 4th in order to avoid an eminent tuition increase. I started doing the necessary stuff required to move from where I live now, Maine, to Florida while maintaining contact and paying a couple fees to get into the school and get my transcripts sent over. Now, today, less than a month from heading out, I was getting nervous because even though I am approved for all the available federal financing I still haven't heard from the financial aid person AT ALL. I know I'll need private financing and they say they want you to wait for financial aid to help you apply for the private financing. I called repeatedly and nothing from them. Finally I gave up and took it into my own hands. I called the companies the school works with on the loans to get approved and they all said I need a cosigner. Cool. Call my parents and find out they can't cosign for me because they filed bankruptcy two years ago, therefore are forbidden from being on any loans for another 5 years. stonewalled man. So here I am, already am committed to move out of my place, my job is over (it was a temporary job, and I didn't look for another because I had been intending to move) and my plans for my next step are up in smoke. In a way it's my fault, if I had been more thoughtful I could have forseen this and checked the financing from square one.

My goal isnt to become a pilot for a major airline, I want to fly the smaller stuff and work for a smaller company. Sounds weird, I know, but it just seems more adventurous. Im not looking into doing this for the money, I genuinely want to have the experience and fun of it. Therefore, I dont see why it is necessary to have a college degree. I haven't heard of a regional airline that looks for it.

I have looked at other ways to get your ATPL, many of them are a pay out of pocket deal. No financial aid, no FAFSA. Some are the same as the program I intended to go to- part fafsa but mostly private lended. Some are Community college things that have you get all of the necessary certifications while attending school for an associates degree. There is a college near me that offers a professional pilot program as a bachelors degree but the flight time is spread out thinly over the whole 4 years and it seems like you would be doing more unrelated general studies programs more than learning to fly. I found two community colleges, both in colorado, that offer it as an associates or certificate and have much more time flying all at once but cost alot if you are an out of state student like me (try $600 a credit hour) so I'm hung on what I should do here.
What im looking for:
A program that wont take forever to complete
A program that teaches me what i need to know, and gives me the proper licenses to fly as a career.
A program that will work with my FAFSA and does not need to be funded privately.

Yes, I realize that it must be prohibitively expensive to run any kind of flight training. Theres equipment, maintenance, fuel, instructor pay all to consider.
Im willing to travel anywhere in the continental US to do this.
I know this was long, but what do you guys think?
 
That sucks dude, hopefully someone can chime in with suggestions how to get financed. Do you have any aunts, uncle, grandparents, family friends that would be willing to sign?

Welcome to POA
 
In University programs you can get aid for tuition but usually not for flight costs. You'll most likely need to pay out of pocket for most, if not all, training.

Sorry this wasn't that helpful but I think what your looking for is a big ask.
 
Consider attending Embrey Riddle or a university with low cost flying club that you can receive grants and scholarships to pay for this.
 
That sucks dude, hopefully someone can chime in with suggestions how to get financed. Do you have any aunts, uncle, grandparents, family friends that would be willing to sign?

Welcome to POA
My grandfather is not a US citizen so he thinks he can't do the cosign. not actually sure on the truth of that but as long as he thinks it, it's final. and aside from him I can't really come up with much as far as credit worthy family members who I have a close enough relationship with to ask to take on that kind of responsibility for me. Ive pretty much put the idea of attending a school that requires private financing out of my head.

And, yeah, I realize it's a big question. I guess some advice from other people doing it can only help steer me in the correct direction. Every college/university that has a flight program that I have seen so far considers the flight time as credit hours or a higher tier. for instance a regular credit hour might be $250 but a credit hour for flight time would be $400. the determination of if FAFSA will cover it depends on the cost of the program in total and how much of that program is spent elsewhere from my research.
 
How about getting another job, live with your parents, ask them if you can do it rent free. Become a hermit, don't spend any money except for absolute necessities. If you can find something at $15 an hour, 40 or more hours a week, after 6 to 8 months, you should be able to save $10 grand. Go down to the local FBO and get your license.

Then rinse, repeat as necessary.
 
How about getting another job, live with your parents, ask them if you can do it rent free. Become a hermit, don't spend any money except for absolute necessities. If you can find something at $15 an hour, 40 or more hours a week, after 6 to 8 months, you should be able to save $10 grand. Go down to the local FBO and get your license.

Then rinse, repeat as necessary.

I have never had a job that pays $15 an hour in my life. But I guess that is a good concept- just pay as you go for what you can afford. I wonder what the total cost would be doing it this way. and if it even would work out- I mean if it takes 10 years to get it done that would suck.
 
Move somewhere you want to live. Get a job. Get a second job.

Start working. Save some money, establish residency in that state.

Start taking classes at local community college. Start taking flying lessons as you can afford.

It will take time. But not as long as the 6 years you wasted from 18-24 as you were too impatient to do this from 18-21.

Time to mature and earn something and not rely others to finance you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Move somewhere you want to live. Get a job. Get a second job.

Start working. Save some money, establish residency in that state.

Start taking classes at local community college. Start taking flying lessons as you can afford.

It will take time. But not as long as the 6 years you wasted from 18-24 as you were too impatient to do this from 18-21.

Time to mature and earn something and not rely others to finance you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
When you say "rely on others to finance you" you're making it sound as I expect someone to just gift me the money for this, which is inaccurate. Or you are saying that trying to get a loan to do this is immature? therefore the implication would be that everyone else who goes to school with student debt is also immature?
 
I'll 2nd the find a decent job and become a hermit for 6-12 months method. It will add up quick, and you won't owe anyone anything. What part of the country do you live in?
 
Join the army, go to college with your GI Bill benefits, save some money, take flying lessons. Will probably take about 10 years but no reason to wait any longer.
 
I'll 2nd the find a decent job and become a hermit for 6-12 months method. It will add up quick, and you won't owe anyone anything. What part of the country do you live in?

I live in Maine, so east coast.
 
To get all ratings up to ATP and build hours it's gonna be expensive and unfortunately there is no way around it. I don't think what PaulS said would work unless your willing to work for 5-6 years to save up the money. For example, at the best college aviation programs in the US (UND, MTSU, Purdue,WMU...) out of state tuition will be $18k (UND) to $21k (MTSU) to 26k (WMU) to $30k (ERAU) 40k (Purdue). The good news is that for all of these except ERAU (which is private) you can get FASFA aid and loans and you can get scholarships for all. The bad news is that very few scholarships will cover flight costs which, for UND at least, cover PPL, CPL, Instrument, CFI, CFII, ATC intro, atl chamber, and CRJ FTD. Other programs are around there but could be more expensive for less (WMU and Purdue) because they use Cirrus aircraft which run about $50 more per hour that G1000 Skyhawks. Some of those classes at UND are extra in terms of the bare min you would need but are nice to have if the program offers them. University programs also include classes focused on many aviation related subjects and aim for a more all-around approach rather than just the hours.

You can go to a Community College and fly at an FBO on the side which would probably be cheaper but would most likely take longer as you would need more hours to qualify for the RATP and may not have access to large, well maintained fleets and a schedule built around moving through lessons fast (at least 3 flight blocks per week).

Hope this was helpful in terms of explaining some of the costs you'll be facing at Universities and CCs.
 
Paging Andrew Finne!! Andrew Finne, please reply to the white courtesy thread.

Andrew is likely a good info source for you, Kyle. He recently graduated a four year college program that got him his required credentials and time. And in the late summer, interviewed for a regional airline and got the job. He is now flying right seat for them in the northeast part of the country.

His handle here is ARFlyer if you wish to send him a private message.
 
To get all ratings up to ATP and build hours it's gonna be expensive and unfortunately there is no way around it. I don't think what PaulS said would work unless your willing to work for 5-6 years to save up the money. For example, at the best college aviation programs in the US (UND, MTSU, Purdue,WMU...) out of state tuition will be $18k (UND) to $21k (MTSU) to 26k (WMU) to $30k (ERAU) 40k (Purdue). The good news is that for all of these except ERAU (which is private) you can get FASFA aid and loans and you can get scholarships for all. The bad news is that very few scholarships will cover flight costs which, for UND at least, cover PPL, CPL, Instrument, CFI, CFII, ATC intro, atl chamber, and CRJ FTD. Other programs are around there but could be more expensive for less (WMU and Purdue) because they use Cirrus aircraft which run about $50 more per hour that G1000 Skyhawks. Some of those classes at UND are extra in terms of the bare min you would need but are nice to have if the program offers them. University programs also include classes focused on many aviation related subjects and aim for a more all-around approach rather than just the hours.

You can go to a Community College and fly at an FBO on the side which would probably be cheaper but would most likely take longer as you would need more hours to qualify for the RATP and may not have access to large, well maintained fleets and a schedule built around moving through lessons fast (at least 3 flight blocks per week).

Hope this was helpful in terms of explaining some of the costs you'll be facing at Universities and CCs.

That is actually hugely helpful. Thats the first time Ive seen any kind of useful list that includes tuition. I will do some more research on those schools!
 
Glad I could help. Let me know if you have any more questions.
 
Thank God your parents filed bankruptcy. They would be fools to co-sign a loan like that. As would any other relative or friend. Stop asking your family to risk their future financial stability like that.

Get a job. Get a second job. Cash flow this deal or don't do it. You'll barely be able to pay rent and eat on a regional salary, let alone repay a loan. If you default on a loan that is co-signed you've screwed someone else, not just yourself. At least if YOU get the loan you're only hosing yourself, not your parents.
 
Do you have any semi-local airports nearby that offer flight training? See if you can get a job working for the flight school and exchange labor for time. Then live at home while you continue to build hours and obtain ratings to keep the costs down. If you do it right there would be no need for student loans and you could have all the same ratings as the guys who went through a flight college while remaining debt free (or close to it).

This is how I got all of my ratings except my private. I worked a full time job as well to pay my bills. The other thing that nobody really mentions is that if you do it this way you'll likely make a lot more contacts that could lead to flying jobs than you will going to a big school. I'd also say that you'll experience more real world flying and see more of how an airport works than what a lot of those guys seem to see.
 
How about that jetblue zero hour program?
 
Find an Air National Guard unit nearby. Join up, do your 3-9 months of training and then you'll have $30,000+ to spend towards flight training and school. Plus you can usually pick up training days to supplement your other job. Minimal obligation and lots of reward.
 
Never heard of them. Just from the sounds of this story compared to the history of the industry, it sounds like you are walking into a $40,000 student loan nightmare that is going to haunt you for the next 30 years. May or may not happen, just sayin all the earmarks are in place.
 
Move to Nebraska, get two jobs, preferably ones with tips. Live ultra cheap. Bust your ass working to get money. Rent our airplanes and pay as you go. We'll knock out your private and instrument for less money than most any other place out there can. Then buy a really cheap airplane to get to 250 hours in. Sell it as soon as you have those hours. Then we'll get you your CFI and I'll feed you students. Bust your ass doing that and you'll have atp minimums.

The above plan would absolutely work and you would walk away debt free. Would it be easy? Probably not. But it would happen if you were willing to put in the sweat equity.
 
Move to Nebraska, get two jobs, preferably ones with tips. Live ultra cheap. Bust your ass working to get money. Rent our airplanes and pay as you go. We'll knock out your private and instrument for less money than most any other place out there can. Then buy a really cheap airplane to get to 250 hours in. Sell it as soon as you have those hours. Then we'll get you your CFI and I'll feed you students. Bust your ass doing that and you'll have atp minimums.

The above plan would absolutely work and you would walk away debt free. Would it be easy? Probably not. But it would happen if you were willing to put in the sweat equity.


Something like that would be the BEST choice.

However just getting ATP mins isn't normally good enough for the nicer corp jobs as PIC.
 
Last edited:
Hey Jesse, forget Kyle. Can I move to Nebraska and live in your basement!?
 
Move to Nebraska, get two jobs, preferably ones with tips. Live ultra cheap. Bust your ass working to get money. Rent our airplanes and pay as you go. We'll knock out your private and instrument for less money than most any other place out there can. Then buy a really cheap airplane to get to 250 hours in. Sell it as soon as you have those hours. Then we'll get you your CFI and I'll feed you students. Bust your ass doing that and you'll have atp minimums.

The above plan would absolutely work and you would walk away debt free. Would it be easy? Probably not. But it would happen if you were willing to put in the sweat equity.
Sounds like a good plan. Much better than going into immense debt. Although I know nothing about the job and housing situations of Nebraska
 
Sounds like a good plan. Much better than going into immense debt. Although I know nothing about the job and housing situations of Nebraska

It's a great plan. For a self-starter.
 
Sounds like a good plan. Much better than going into immense debt. Although I know nothing about the job and housing situations of Nebraska

Plenty of jobs and very affordable living.
 
Sounds like a good plan. Much better than going into immense debt. Although I know nothing about the job and housing situations of Nebraska

That's better than just a good plan you need to jump on this offer!!!
 
That's better than just a good plan you need to jump on this offer!!!

I agree. Of all the above paths, this will get you flying with the least strings attached.
But be sure you can get a Class 1 medical before you leave home.
 
Hello from a fellow Mainer!

Where-about in Maine do you live? If you're in the Bangor region then Umaine has a some great aircraft to rent for cheap and get your private in.
 
Hello from a fellow Mainer!

Where-about in Maine do you live? If you're in the Bangor region then Umaine has a some great aircraft to rent for cheap and get your private in.

I live in Old Town, I just spoke with Carter Aeroworks at Dewitt airfield about getting started. They rent a Cessna C-150L for $85 an hour wet and the flight instructor rate is $35 an hour

How can I get info on using UMaine's planes?
 
In my opinion, working at an FBO as others have suggested is a great way to go. I think there's a good chance you'll establish some contacts and be able to possibly meet someone who will sympathize with you and give you a good rate on aircraft, and many FBO's offer labor-for-hours deals. This week on this forum someone offered to fly with me in their Bonanza and I spoke with a pilot last week who offered to help me build multi time by flying in his King Air on maintenance trips, and I'm younger than you are.

Good luck! The Nebraska deal sounds like a good plan. Live, breathe and sweat aviation.
And if you join the Armed Forces and can get into a good program, they'll pay for your flight training, plus you get a salary, so that's a good deal if you're interested in that kind of thing. Not to mention GI bill for college later.
 
I live in Old Town, I just spoke with Carter Aeroworks at Dewitt airfield about getting started. They rent a Cessna C-150L for $85 an hour wet and the flight instructor rate is $35 an hour

How can I get info on using UMaine's planes?

http://umaine.edu/flyingclub/

It's open to everyone but students at UMaine get a discount.

UMaine has a Cessna 152 for $65 an hour wet. Instructors charge their own price but most are around $35 per hour. You can use any instructor you can find. In my experience there are a few good and a few bad instructors in the Bangor/Old Town area so try one and if you're not convinced they're earning their $35 an hour then switch to another.

The 152 is an older plane but well maintained. I've flown it a bit and it flies very well. It might do something annoying like throw a battery or an instrument that might trap you somewhere after you land but I've never felt unsafe in it. It's a great trainer at a bargain price.

UMaine also has a very nice G1000 Cessna 172 for $125 wet. This is a huge plus to getting your IFR down the road but you'll want to train in the 152 to start. As you get later in your training see if you can do a few intro flights in this to both see a modern avionics system and fly a slightly bigger plane.

The only bad news is the club charges a starting membership fee of $130, a monthly fee ($25 per month if I remember), and a $300 refundable security deposit. So if you just wanted to rent this plane once then you're going to waste a lot of money. If you are in for the 45-60 hours you'll need for your private pilots license and beyond then this will probably be the cheapest flying you'll find.

If you want to go for a quick flight around Bangor some time before it gets really cold let me know.
 
http://umaine.edu/flyingclub/

It's open to everyone but students at UMaine get a discount.

UMaine has a Cessna 152 for $65 an hour wet. Instructors charge their own price but most are around $35 per hour. You can use any instructor you can find. In my experience there are a few good and a few bad instructors in the Bangor/Old Town area so try one and if you're not convinced they're earning their $35 an hour then switch to another.

The 152 is an older plane but well maintained. I've flown it a bit and it flies very well. It might do something annoying like throw a battery or an instrument that might trap you somewhere after you land but I've never felt unsafe in it. It's a great trainer at a bargain price.

UMaine also has a very nice G1000 Cessna 172 for $125 wet. This is a huge plus to getting your IFR down the road but you'll want to train in the 152 to start. As you get later in your training see if you can do a few intro flights in this to both see a modern avionics system and fly a slightly bigger plane.

The only bad news is the club charges a starting membership fee of $130, a monthly fee ($25 per month if I remember), and a $300 refundable security deposit. So if you just wanted to rent this plane once then you're going to waste a lot of money. If you are in for the 45-60 hours you'll need for your private pilots license and beyond then this will probably be the cheapest flying you'll find.

If you want to go for a quick flight around Bangor some time before it gets really cold let me know.

Thats really good though! I paid Curt Carter out of KOLD $85 an hour wet to use his C150 plus the $35 an hour instructor rate. maybe ill use UMaine's plane to solo to save money. Curt was a great instructor, I would certainly be friends with him otherwise, and he was great about advocating self study as much as possible and he pretty much charges per-lesson rather than per hour and has a curriculum pre written
 
Never flown with Curt but it sounds like he's a decent instructor. If he's willing to come over to Bangor then you can easily use him as your instructor in the umaine aircraft.
 
Back
Top