Are you flying less X-country?

Jay Honeck

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Jay Honeck
This could also be titled "Where have all the pilots gone?"

As many of you know, my wife and I own the Midwest's only aviation themed, all-suites hotel, the Alexis Park Inn & Suites. For the last six years, we have worked to create the ultimate fly-in destination, with each suite celebrating a different era of aviation history. We're both pilots (and now our 17-year old son is, as well) -- and know exactly what *we* want (and rarely find) when we travel by GA, and have endeavored to provide it.

To that end, we provide things for pilots that most hotels wouldn't dream of offering. A free courtesy vehicle, for instance. (My insurance guy goes NUTS about that!) A full-sized flight simulator to practice approaches or landing in. Free aviation movies, wireless internet, hot tubs -- you name it, we've got it.

For the last six years, fly-in business has been steadily growing, although, quite frankly, fly-in pilots have always represented less than 5% of our guests. Still, in the summer months especially, this would climb to maybe 10 - 15%, as more and more pilots took their flying family vacations.

This year, so far, fly-ins are way down. Last week we had a couple of A&P mechanics who were working on a local Wilga restoration, and a couple who drove in (rather than fly) -- but our courtesy van isn't moving much. It's getting depressing.

Our FBO reported his business last quarter was down a whopping 50%, which seems to jive with what we're seeing. Thankfully, we're having our best year, ever (obviously the aviation theme is popular with non-pilots) -- but if we had to rely on our fly-in guests we'd be out of business.

Mary and I have continued to travel by personal aircraft (we just returned from a 7-day flight to Texas and all points in between), and plan on attending OSH again this year -- but it *is* becoming harder as gas prices have soared.

So let's have it: Are you flying fewer cross country flights? Are you planning on taking any flying vacations this year, or are you sitting it out to see what happens with fuel prices?
 
Jay, it's a confounding question.

If you talk to flight schools, many of them are as busy as they have ever been, but a huge proportion of that business is foreign students (many of whom, on the radio, sound just like "Bob" in Dell Technical Support).

There is no question in my mind that the dramatic run-up in fuel prices (av and ground) over the last year or so has substantially impacted the recreational use of flying, especially for those pilots who are on the lower edge of the affordability spectrum.

For some of these folks, the change in expense truly is the difference between being able to afford to fly (and participate in other recreational activities which require fuel, including RV-ing, boating, etc.), but I think that, for the greater number, it is a simple matter of "sticker shock," the numbers being so much higher that folks are just suspending their pleasure flying.

At the same time, of course, I see fly-ins and the like around here generating very substantial interest, and (one data point) this year's Gaston's Fly-In was a huge success by every possible measure (including adrenaline).

Jay, I really think that, after the marketplace has had a chance to acclimatize to fuel pricing as it is now (yes, prices are high, but not impossible as a proportion of the already-silly notion of total airplane-operation-expense), you'll see most of these people renewing their bond with the sky. All this presumes no new and dramatic shocks in the form of substantial additional increases triggered by new and confidence-sapping world events- something, say, like another global-consequence terrorism event or an invasion of Iran, those sorts of things.

And, of course, we could have a significant reduction in oil price, but while I hope for that and believe that the market should deliver it, I am not counting upon it.
 
Nope, I'm flying more. But that's because the opportunities come up, and for me it's still affordable. :)
 
Jay,

I'm glad you asked the question because I was not familiar with your inn. However, I will make it a point to stay with you next time I'm in the vicinity or flying across the US in need of an overnight stop.

Jon
 
Personally, I'm more conscious of where I stop to purchase fuel and will put up with a bit more to get a discount.

In the P-Baron, I just couldn't stop at some of the places I could with the A-36. I can't really move it around myself on the ramp and putting in up to 190 gallons is a chore; so, I didn't self serv much. Last trip to CA from Dallas, I stopped at a more affordable place to get fuel.

Hasn't affected the number of trips, but may if things continue in their current direction.

Best,

Dave
 
Well Jay, My Answer is YES. But let me explain, I changed jobs so i dont have the time to fly X/C's and and also my buddy is using my plane from his IR trianing ,so i let him fly it more then he usually does. If i get out that way i will stay with you and your place sounds Very Interesting.
Dave G:blueplane:
 
I think the nation is traveling less and this translates into light planes as well.
The newspapers indicate that miles driven are down
Last weekend, our neighbors put on one of the best fireworks displays I have seen- it appeared there were more people home so they shot the fireworks here instead of elsewhere
 
Fuel prices aren't effecting my flying time. Work and weather (and a house addition)
have interfered with my flying. Now that my folks are moved in, I hope to fly
more...ok, I'm just hoping to fly.

Since my 140 only burns around 8 gph, the cost of fuel isn't a factor for me.
 
Flying more.

I expect fuel prices to continue to increase, so I'm doing what I can while I can.

Nothing sadder than "I wish I had"...
 
Flying more. I expect fuel prices to continue to increase, so I'm doing what I can while I can. Nothing sadder than "I wish I had"...

I agree!

Mary and I talked about this very subject as we 'drove' to and from the Beach this morning (1.5 each way). I volunteered to swap furniture in their condo for her Aunt & Uncle so I was forced to drive! I don't mind since they never take a dime from us when we stay there, it's the least I could do for them.

Mary commented on how little flying we have done, I responded that our hours are actually up from last year. Granted, my IR lessons are piling up the numbers but we have been flying. This summer we did Block Island (BID), First Flight (FFA), a trip planned for Lewisburg, NC (LHZ) to visit family in August and we will be flying down to Nags Head, NC (MQI) for vacation the week after Labor Day.

I can't wait until we can just pick up and go. Lock up the house and take the real cross country to do things on our list of places to go and people to see.
 
Well, um...actually I have more x-country fights this summer. Does it matter if they're in the aluminum tube? Oh, wait, you're the wrong guy to ask on this one :)

Seriously though, this year has been a slower flying year. Mostly it's been a scheduling thing or weather during the winter. I'm expecting to pickup the pace in late summer/early fall as I start the flying portion of my CP cert. Still, I'm betting I don't hit 100 hours this year.
 
Jay, I'm curious as to how far your flyin guest usually fly from. If a resort like yours was with in a 2-3 hr flight ( cherokee) from where I'm located I could say that we would definity make it a point to visit. However from the East Coast where I am that trip would blast a huge hole in my budget. I'd think you would do a good business in the 2-3 hr flight range as well as folks traveling from coast to coast and north to south. My current X-C trips are limited to 1-200nm. I just can't afford bigger trips now. I really don't know if I can keep up if fuel hits $7.00 gallon here as it has in some places. Then again there is a good agrument that if your gonna spend the$$ spend it on a great trip not just a $100 hamburger.
 
Nothing sadder than "I wish I had"...
Amen. That's why I went ahead and bought my airplane: I knew that I could, and wanted to make sure I didn't miss out. Now that I've got it, I'm not going to miss out on flying it.

I can't say I'm flying more or less, because there's nothing recent to compare it to.
 
I'm a renter, and the cost of renting has gone up about five dollars an hour this summer because of the higher cost of fuel. Not a real big deal as I am an employee and I get a 25% discount anyway. The big thing that I'm looking at is the possibility of picking up a deal on a plane this winter. I am wondering if there might be some owners that will want to get out from under their planes with the prospect of a cold winter and rising gas prices. If that is the case, I'm pretty well situated to scoop one up.
 
Much less. But, I also sold my plane, and refuse to ever have any more loan payments on anything now that my house is paid off. Maybe next year at this time, I'll be seriously looking for a plane. Until then, I don't see myself doing any more than 6 more hours of flying for the rest of the year.
 
We have been flying less so far this year, between the weather, the prices, and Leslie's surgery. We did get in Gaston's, and are still planning on Mackinac, Sidnaw, and the Bahamas before the end of the year. Your place looks perfect for a weekend getaway, and we may try to fit it in, since you're less than 1.5 hrs away. But the fuel (and thus the rental) prices have definitely been a factor.
 
I've been flying more this year than I had last--and the price of rentals has increased by a significant amount. I wouldn't have been able to pay these prices a couple years ago.

Not much you can do, you can either not fly, or you can make more money to offset the increased costs.
 
Well heck! I totally forgot about the fly in hotel today. I was supposed to fly from Ames Iowa to the Madision WI area but scrubbed due to high winds at the destination. I tried to get a friend to have lunch in Cedar Rapids but no luck. So, already being aloft I headed downwind to Keosaqua to buzz an old pal and land at that funky airport in the river bend. I should have come to Iowa City and seen Jays hotel and cool Ercoupe! Logged 4.3 and 6 landings in the Fly Baby in some fairly good X-winds. In the last 2 weeks I've flown over 20 hours so MY hours are up but I doubt that's a reflection on the general trend. Gotta say I love that 4+gal./hour Flivver and I'm starting to mix in car gas. I don't think it gets any cheaper.
 
Well heck! I totally forgot about the fly in hotel today. I was supposed to fly from Ames Iowa to the Madision WI area but scrubbed due to high winds at the destination. I tried to get a friend to have lunch in Cedar Rapids but no luck. So, already being aloft I headed downwind to Keosaqua to buzz an old pal and land at that funky airport in the river bend. I should have come to Iowa City and seen Jays hotel and cool Ercoupe! Logged 4.3 and 6 landings in the Fly Baby in some fairly good X-winds. In the last 2 weeks I've flown over 20 hours so MY hours are up but I doubt that's a reflection on the general trend. Gotta say I love that 4+gal./hour Flivver and I'm starting to mix in car gas. I don't think it gets any cheaper.

Well, shoot, Matt -- that's okay. Mary and I took off at noon and flew the 'Coupe to lunch with another couple in their 172. (For once *they* had to throttle back for us!) So we wouldn't have been there to give you the nickel tour, anyway.

Sundays are "recovery" days at the hotel. We sell out every weekend (and, since the flood, we've been running 97%+ occupancy, so we're sold out virtually every day) so our housekeepers spend all day Sunday putting everything back together. Therefore, Mary and I utilize Sunday afternoons as "family time" and go fly somewhere...

Well, we did -- until we got this cool little 2-seater. Now we leave the kids home!

:yes:

Next time you're passing through, though, drop me an email!
 
So let's have it: Are you flying fewer cross country flights? Are you planning on taking any flying vacations this year, or are you sitting it out to see what happens with fuel prices?

Oddly enough, for the last 9 months or so I've been flying less to save up $$$ to buy an airplane! :rofl:

But, I've been flying very little since the weather got nice simply because I'm losing my job at the end of this month and I want to be working at the next one before I go back to my usual "budget? what's that?" type of flying.

However, I am using the "permanent vacation" as an opportunity to take my longest XC ever. It'll be about 2.5 weeks and between 3500-4000 nm. The club already has enough of my money to cover the flight, and I'm getting a nice chunk of severance pay that I can dip into a bit to pay for food and lodging (though I'm planning on doing some good old-fashioned camping as well.)
 
Hey, has anyone considered doing a "Gaston's" type get-together at Alexis Park? Jay, could you deal with that many of us? (We had 30 plus planes at Gaston's this year.) You have an idea of what could be involved with a flyin like this. I really like your cancellation policy (
our special pilot's "IFR Cancellation Policy" allows you to cancel without penalty right up till 6 PM due to poor weather.
), but I'm worried that you'll take a bath if a flyin occurs when there's bad weather.
 
Flying quite a bit more. We've taken more trips in the past eight months than I have the past five years (aside from flight training with students). Even with the high price of Avgas I'm cutting back elsewhere to afford my habit.
 
Hey, has anyone considered doing a "Gaston's" type get-together at Alexis Park? Jay, could you deal with that many of us? (We had 30 plus planes at Gaston's this year.) You have an idea of what could be involved with a flyin like this. I really like your cancellation policy (), but I'm worried that you'll take a bath if a flyin occurs when there's bad weather.

Hi Grant,

We have done many successful group-type fly-ins at the hotel, and we always welcome them. In fact, you could say that our whole purpose in existing is to cater to this kind of activity/crowd. (My main goal in opening an aviation-themed hotel was so that I could hang out with pilots all day long...just like I do on days off!)

:)

However, we have recently learned some bitter lessons WRT fly-ins. For example, the American Barnstormers Tour was supposed to be here in June, and had reserved the entire hotel for four days. (We were a main sponsor of the event.)

Then the floods of 2008 came, and they had to cancel. We lost our butts, and there was literally nothing we could do. It was our worst experience since opening the hotel in 2002.

Needless to say, we're a bit gun shy on that sort of thing now -- but I'd be willing to give it a whirl.

Just realize that we *are* small -- only 30 suites, comprised of 44 bedrooms. With our very high (97% this month, thus far) occupancy rate we've talked about expanding, but we're afraid that we'd lose the ability to do the things that have made us successful. For example, we deliver a continental breakfast to each guest suite, each morning. It's hard to imagine how we could do that with, say, a 100-room hotel...

And, of course, we never wanted to be big-box hoteliers, running a generic McHotel, catering to the masses. We've always wanted an exclusive, get-away weekend-type place, so we're pretty happy with the way things have developed -- with one HUGE exception:

We want more fly-in guests! It's great to be successful beyond expectations, but neither of us dreamed that success would come from NON-pilots, to the exclusion of pilots. But, with flying so far down, I guess I should be thankful.

Richard Collins reported in Flying magazine this month that GA flying was down some 30% in 2007, and more in 2008 thus far. We've got to find a way to counter this trend, before we lose the infrastructure (FBOs, avionics shops, etc.) that we all depend on!
 
My XC flying is down this year but it is not related to fuel. It is related to time. I seem to be on short supply of that.

Jay: One idea is that for fly ins to protect yoursefl you get to keep some money on cancellation. This is not unheard of in the hotel business. Nor is Gaston's not doing this. I had to cancel my Gaston's trip and paid $100 for the privilege. I consider that fair. I had made a commitment to be there and then back out. No matter the reason I made the call.
 
My XC flying is down this year but it is not related to fuel. It is related to time. I seem to be on short supply of that.

Jay: One idea is that for fly ins to protect yoursefl you get to keep some money on cancellation. This is not unheard of in the hotel business. Nor is Gaston's not doing this. I had to cancel my Gaston's trip and paid $100 for the privilege. I consider that fair. I had made a commitment to be there and then back out. No matter the reason I made the call.

We normally have a 72 hour cancellation policy for reservations, and a 7-day cancellation policy for groups. This adequately protects us from the vagaries of modern life. Many inexperienced travelers don't understand that a "reservation" is a contract, and that the act of giving a hotel your credit card number entitles them to exercise that contract if you don't hold up your end of the bargain. But that's a whole 'nother thread...

For fly-in guests, however, we extend the the IFR cancellation policy that allows pilots to cancel if conditions drop below 1000' and 3 miles. This works great for couples -- but the "gray area" is when we have a fly-in, which is technically a group. We SHOULD enforce the 7-day cancellation to protect ourselves, but we don't want to discourage fly-ins...

It's a tough nut to crack. But we're all about flying, so we'd rather err on the side of pilots...
 
Jay, I don't know how much you charge for rooms but to encourage you to have a fly in how about having pilots commit to a reasonable reservation fee that is paid ahead of time. If the whole thing goes sour and people don't show up at least you get something to cover some expenses. I think that pilots would understand the situation and be happy to pay. If the weather is good and just a few don't show they can feel good about subsidizing a great event.

As to the size of the event and your limited number of rooms, pilots can team up which saves costs for them, sleep on floors, and perhaps you can have a tent area too. Even with only 44 bedrooms you could house an airforce.

On another forum we're discussing a possible 50th Fly Baby reunion. Your place would be great for it. Don't worry, it's a ways off and we'd let you know before showing up.
 
My XC flying is down, ironically, because of an increase in "gotta be there" scenarios.

"Time to spare, go by air" really does have a basis in fact, and I got NO time to spare these days. So increasingly I find myself opting for the relative certainty of arrival times by car/airline vs. GA.
 
I have flown less this year, but not because of costs. If I were really worried about that I wouldn't be a pilot. The weather is year has been particularly crappy in the Midwest, and it's kept me grounded. That could be a significant part of what you've seen.
 
XC time has dropped to 0 this year. Two reasons. One, I'm working on my IR and all my flying has been under the hood with the CFII. Second, the diagnosis of prostate cancer in April scotched my medical. So I can't just hop in a plane and go somewhere with my wife. Got that removed on Friday, so (all going as planned) I should be able to get my medical back early next year. So, next year, perhaps. Club rates have gone up due to the price of gas, but that hasn't been a factor, yet.
 
Personally, I'm more conscious of where I stop to purchase fuel and will put up with a bit more to get a discount.

In the P-Baron, I just couldn't stop at some of the places I could with the A-36. I can't really move it around myself on the ramp and putting in up to 190 gallons is a chore; so, I didn't self serv much. Last trip to CA from Dallas, I stopped at a more affordable place to get fuel.

Hasn't affected the number of trips, but may if things continue in their current direction.

Best,

Dave

I wish that Airnav would publish flow rates on the self serve fuel pumps. Some places run between 20 and 30 gpm which is great when you're taking on 100-150 gallons. On the other end of the scale I've run into several that barely manage 4-5 gpm which translates to about 30 minutes of pumping gas.
 
I think I'm flying as much XC as usual this year but like Dave S, I'm paying more attention to fuel prices when picking destinations and fuel stops. If anything, what I've cut back on is flying the Baron locally, just for the heck of it.
 
I find that my flying has diminished for a few reasons. On the fuel cost front, I find that I don't do any more "bore holes through the sky" type of flying that usually come about when I have a couple of hours to kill on a nice afternoon. But that may also be because I have fewer of those "couple of hours to kill" too...

The other is that I've got three [young] kids now so the Warrior won't fit all of us. Upgrading to a 6-seat Cherokee Six/Saratoga is not in the budget now so I guess I have to wait until I either hit the lotto or my career takes a different direction. Of course related to this scenario is the effort it takes to supervise the young ones.

I'm just glad to keep my IFR currency/profiency at a reasonable level.

Marco
 
I'm down quite a bit - but not just XC.

Left old job, moved, new job, income down, cost of fuel, major international travel and travel to NYC (Amtrak's a better option), etc. etc.

HAving said that, I've done recurrent training to keep up skills, and I expect to be flying more near future.
 
Not less cross country but less joy riding. Wife like to travel but doesn't tolerate boring holes like she used too.

Jay, now that Mom is full time AZ, I look foreward to trying out your Inn next time I visit relatives in eastern IA.
 
Not less cross country but less joy riding. Wife like to travel but doesn't tolerate boring holes like she used too.

Jay, now that Mom is full time AZ, I look foreward to trying out your Inn next time I visit relatives in eastern IA.

It's funny -- we,too, had pretty well stopped flying just to bore holes in the sky -- until we bought this Ercoupe.

What a gas to fly! We've flown 16 out of the last 28 days, and are just enjoying the heck out of flying with the top down!

We'll look forward to your visit!
 
My XC time has gone down significantly in the last year, but I can't pin too much of it on aviation fuel costs. Since I have access to a Cherokee at $40 dry (tach) it offsets the fuel some. (PS if anybody around KJNX is interested PM me - we're looking for more pilots).

Mine is due more to a combination of: wife changing careers to a (much) lower salary, not flying with me anymore, picking up trailer camping as an activity that we can do together, and the increased costs of everything else (auto fuel etc) eating into my flying budget. I rarely go anywhere just to burn holes in the sky or for a $200+ hamburger anymore, and my Angel Flight activity has dwindled to almost nil.

--
Allen Johnson
 
It's funny -- we,too, had pretty well stopped flying just to bore holes in the sky -- until we bought this Ercoupe.

What a gas to fly! We've flown 16 out of the last 28 days, and are just enjoying the heck out of flying with the top down!

I've often thought of something low and slow. Cub, one of the new LSAs, even a Mooney Mite. If I had something that sipped gas and was as close as you to the airport..... Well I understand.
 
I've often thought of something low and slow. Cub, one of the new LSAs, even a Mooney Mite. If I had something that sipped gas and was as close as you to the airport..... Well I understand.

Is this a Mooney driver complaining about fuel efficiency? :) Are you running fully rich?? ;)
 
Is this a Mooney driver complaining about fuel efficiency? :) Are you running fully rich?? ;)
Not effciency just a different kind of flying. Can't beat a Mooney for getting somewhere. Going nowhere on 3-4 gph is fun too.:cheerswine:
 
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