Archer vs c172 flight controls

E

evapilotaz

En-Route
Joined
Feb 13, 2012
Messages
2,623
Location
Gilbert AZ. VFR All Year Baby
Display Name
Display name:
Drone airspace abuser
i have made a transition from flying c172 to Piper archer. The archer controls seem heavy to the feel than c172. What is the arrow dynamic reason for this? Is it high wing vs low wing?
 
Nothing to do with high vs low wing. Reasons are typically different geometries in the control cables and rods, counterbalances (or not) on the control surfaces, things like that.
 
When I transitioned from 172 to pa-28 I felt like e was just way more stable and more docile. Crosswind landings were easier. Just felt nicer to control overall.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Even with the anti-servo tab, the controls of the PA28 are poorly balanced and harmonized. Very awkward to flare smoothly. I've always found it ratchety, compared to even a C-172. All Beech products do a much better job on the control harmony front. And I say this as a multiple PA-28 variant owner through the years. Cirrus is about the only one I've found most awkward and unappealing to hand fly, due to the position of the half-yoke and the spring-centered trim. Terrible lack of feedback and coarse pitch harmony, especially when attempting to merely break out of the null zone in pitch.

None of this is a make or break though. Merely design and production variances. The only go/no-go I consider relevant when it comes to control feedback issues on these recreational cans (or bathtubs for our fiberglass cohort), is on the Piper T-tails. That was unadulterated inferior design and objectively detracts from control performance and safety during critical phases of flight. And just like a POS stretched 737, they ask you to "just fly 'er fast so you don't run out of...." in order to ameliorate the effects. No thanks. I can compromise on cosmetics and cabin layout. But on engines and control surfaces, I don't accept operating concessions, I just go fly/own something else.
 
MAKG1 said:
The PA28 has a stabilator. You're moving a lot more weight and aerodynamic cross section.
Click to expand...

That is completely wrong. Because you have an aerodynamic balance on both sides of the pivot point, stabilators have quite light control forces; that's why they usually are equipped with antiservo tabs.

An older Cherokee 140 has elevator control forces that are probably lighter than a C172 of the same vintage.
 
M
evapilotaz said:
i have made a transition from flying c172 to Piper archer. The archer controls seem heavy to the feel than c172. What is the arrow dynamic reason for this? Is it high wing vs low wing?
Click to expand...

No clue....but enjoy not having to drag that fuel hose to the top of a ladder and hold it while fueling. Also makes icing more visible. Paint the nose of the fuel caps black.
 
When I first flew a 172 I thought how heavy the controls were, compared to the European aircraft I was accustomed to! Now I fly a Grumman AA5, delightfully light controls!
 
creweite said:
When I first flew a 172 I thought how heavy the controls were, compared to the European aircraft I was accustomed to! Now I fly a Grumman AA5, delightfully light controls!
Click to expand...


Stepping out of a 152 into the Archer I was like, man this Piper is sluggish. The 152 felt to light and twitchy on the yoke. Small inputs equaled instant response.

Each airframe is so different. Coming from 200 hours in an Archer right into the Lance, I commented the Lance feels like flying a brick with wings. Other Lance drivers say I'm crazy and they fly the same. No effin way I say but everyone has an opinion- and generally, know one wants to hear it.
 
creweite said:
When I first flew a 172 I thought how heavy the controls were, compared to the European aircraft I was accustomed to! Now I fly a Grumman AA5, delightfully light controls!
Click to expand...

What European aircraft?
 
Unit74 said:
Stepping out of a 152 into the Archer I was like, man this Piper is sluggish. The 152 felt to light and twitchy on the yoke. Small inputs equaled instant response.

Each airframe is so different. Coming from 200 hours in an Archer right into the Lance, I commented the Lance feels like flying a brick with wings. Other Lance drivers say I'm crazy and they fly the same. No effin way I say but everyone has an opinion- and generally, know one wants to hear it.
Click to expand...

That's because you're flying a T-tail lance. If you're asking straight tail lance owners, that's where the disparity come from. If it's other T-tail owners, then you have a point, they're biased. I owned almost the exact sequence of airplanes as you (C-150, PA28-161) and my observations match yours every step of the way. Where you and I part company is on the T-tail of course. That control setup is a POS imo, in the PA28/32/44 line.
 
dmspilot said:
That is completely wrong. Because you have an aerodynamic balance on both sides of the pivot point, stabilators have quite light control forces; that's why they usually are equipped with antiservo tabs.

An older Cherokee 140 has elevator control forces that are probably lighter than a C172 of the same vintage.
Click to expand...

This is correct, but I can attest that the feel is much heavier than that of a 172.

I don't know if it's the antiservo tab or what, or maybe it's just linkage/pulley design differences. But it's definitely heavier feeling.
 
fiveoboy01 said:
This is correct, but I can attest that the feel is much heavier than that of a 172.

I don't know if it's the antiservo tab or what, or maybe it's just linkage/pulley design differences. But it's definitely heavier feeling.
Click to expand...
Need to lube the yoke shafts and perhaps other linkages. PA-28 should be quite light in pitch.
 
Keeping the yoke shafts clean and lubed does make a huge difference I've found.

It's probably not as bad as I state. But I've flown 3 Archers and the forces on the stab(particularly what's needed in terms of backpressure to rotate) are heavier.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top