Archer II to Super Musketeer

TexasAviation

TexasAviation

Pre-takeoff checklist
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TexasAviation
I'm taking a look at a Musketeer Super III (200hp fuel-injected) in the morning. Might want to buy it as my first plane.

On paper, the specs look pretty close to the Archer II, the plane I trained in and the only one I've flown. If the numbers on RisingUp.com are correct, the Super Mouse cruises 5 kts faster than the Archer. Seems like a stretch to me, even with a 20-hp advantage. And useful load looks very similar, around 1,100 lbs. for both planes.

I like that it's a simple plane to keep maintenance and insurance costs down. Fixed gear. Fixed prop on this particular plane. It's got an older, IFR-approved GPS and single-axis autopilot.

Anybody have a pirep on flying/owning a Super III?
 
Pipers are forgiving of airspeed diversions on final.
For the Mouse, fly the numbers, don't force the landing, and retract the flaps before braking.

Forcing the landing if you are floating down the runway from carrying too much speed, catches the nose gear first. Rubber donuts compress and throw the nose back into the air, PIO, normally about the 3rd PIO nose gear strike and it snaps the gear. You will now be a true nose dragger sliding down the runway.

Great planes, enjoy!
I've flown the newer, Beech Sport, Sundowner and Sierra.
 
I'm a piper fan but the baby beeches are great too. I think the super Musketeer only has one door unlike the other muskateers.Two doors is a big advantage other than that fly what you like.
 
Just make sure that it does not have the Continental engine. That one was a stinker.
 
BillTIZ said:
PIO, normally about the 3rd PIO nose gear strike and it snaps the gear. .
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This is easy to do in these planes. But if you learn to fly and land it correctly you won't experience this. Roomy cockpit. As BillTIX states, Sundowners and Sierras also included in this warning. :)
 
That's a lot of engine for a fixed prop, seems like you'd be wasting HP/fuel in ether climb or cruise, once you start getting around 180HP I'd be wanting a CS prop.
 
I go on breakfast runs weekly in my friend's Super. His has two doors as do some of them and it is a very nice feature to have. I have 50 hours or so in a PA28-161 (Warrior II) and the Mouse is easier to get in and out of and once you're in, it's much roomier. He generally cruises at 65% (2350 rpm at 3500' or so) and burns 8.7 gph at peak). The thing really climbs well - not uncommon to see 1000+ fpm with almost full tanks and 400# of pilot and copilot. Some Supers have a Constant Speed Prop and the climb rate should be much better with one of those. Cruise speed is almost as fast as my Cardinal :). I have never seen him bounce or PIO down the runway. He changed the donuts about 10 years ago (they should be changed every 15-20 years) and the airplane lands beautifully. It is a simple, reliable airplane.

Almost forgot... His is for sale here.
 
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Make sure your pre-buy inspection looks at the main spar for corrosion.

A former participant on the red board bought a Mouse and then had to replace the main spar with one from a junkyard. The "new" one wasn't corrosion-free either.

-Skip
 
James331 said:
That's a lot of engine for a fixed prop, seems like you'd be wasting HP/fuel in ether climb or cruise, once you start getting around 180HP I'd be wanting a CS prop.
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I'm running an O-540 carburetored 250HP on a fixed pitch prop. Lean for DA, no issues and runs strong.
PA-25, glider tow. Less maintenance issues.
 
BillTIZ said:
I'm running an O-540 carburetored 250HP on a fixed pitch prop. Lean for DA, no issues and runs strong.
PA-25, glider tow. Less maintenance issues.
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If all you're doing is climbing that's fine, but for planes which need both max climb and max cruise, a constant speed really is nice.
 
JohnAJohnson said:
I go on breakfast runs weekly in my friend's Super. His has two doors as do some of them and it is a very nice feature to have. I have 50 hours or so in a PA28-161 (Warrior II) and the Mouse is easier to get in and out of and once you're in, it's much roomier. He generally cruises at 65% (2350 rpm at 3500' or so) and burns 8.7 gph at peak). The thing really climbs well - not uncommon to see 1000+ fpm with almost full tanks and 400# of pilot and copilot. Some Supers have a Constant Speed Prop and the climb rate should be much better with one of those. Cruise speed is almost as fast as my Cardinal :). I have never seen him bounce or PIO down the runway. He changed the donuts about 10 years ago (they should be changed every 15-20 years) and the airplane lands beautifully. It is a simple, reliable airplane.

Almost forgot... His is for sale here.
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John:

Help out a noob here: what does "almost as fast as" mean? I've seen pretty widely varying figures from various sources so an objective answer would be a help. Thanks.

ML
 
I would check out the Beech Aero Club. Well worth the $50 membership, and the wealth of knowledge about Baby Beeches, including Skippers and Duchii, is legendary.

http://www.beechaeroclub.org/forum.php

If you are seriously considering any type of aircraft, I wholly recommend joining a relevant type club or at least a active type forum. Beechtalk (for non-baby Beeches), Mooneyspace, CPA, CPO (Cardinals), Twin Cessna, ICS, etc.

Obviously people on those forums will have a bias towards their type, but it's pretty easy to separate the wheat from the chaff in most cases.

Richman
 
MikeLima said:
John:

Help out a noob here: what does "almost as fast as" mean? I've seen pretty widely varying figures from various sources so an objective answer would be a help. Thanks.

ML
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I joke with him quite a bit about and how mice are susceptible to bird strikes from the rear, but in reality, he cruises within a couple of knots of my Cardinal's 119 ktas at 65%. Our normal breakfast run takes him 1.2 hours and 1.4 for me when we take my plane. My airport is 6 miles farther from the destination than his, so I the additional 12 miles accounts for my additional .2 hours, making both airplanes the same speed for all practical purposes. Folks that tell you not to buy brand x because it is two knots slower than brand y are buying into marketing hype and emotion. On a full day's cross country with two or three fuel stops, the difference can be made up by simply stopping for 35 minutes instead of 40 minutes at one of the fuel stops.
 
Richman67 said:
...If you are seriously considering any type of aircraft, I wholly recommend joining a relevant type club or at least a active type forum. Beechtalk (for non-baby Beeches), Mooneyspace, CPA, CPO (Cardinals), Twin Cessna, ICS, etc.
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A minor correction if I might, Richman. The Cardinal Flyers Online (CFO) is the premier Cardinal type club.
 
TexasAviation said:
If the numbers on RisingUp.com are correct, the Super Mouse cruises 5 kts faster than the Archer. Seems like a stretch to me, even with a 20-hp advantage.
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I just looked at the RisingUp numbers too and 130 knots to me is a bit optimistic. They don't say what the power settings are but cruise performance is normally quoted at 75% and I would think closer to the low to mid 120's would be more realistic.
 
James331 said:
If all you're doing is climbing that's fine, but for planes which need both max climb and max cruise, a constant speed really is nice.
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I'll agree, but a draggy Pawnee is not going to go much faster just by changing a blade angle.
I use about 2300rpm for cruise on less than 10gph ar about 10K MSL,and the speed needle still bounces between 85-90knts.
 
So I looked at the plane on Friday. Seemed like a pretty good bird, although not one I fell in love with at first sight. Started and taxied nicely (owner's medical expired, but he offered to have another pilot to take me up sometime if I'm serious about it). My wife liked how much wider the back seat was than the Archer.

The big question mark for me is how much it will take to get it ready for IFR. That, and how much the sitting has hurt it. It hasn't been flown much in the last few years, and I don't think it's been flown once this year.

The owner said it cruises at 115 mph. Sounds very slow for a 200-hp plane to me, so I don't know whether it's the plane or whether he's just pulling way back on the throttle.

Was surprised to see the POH exactly matches the numbers on RisingUp. That cruise speed of 130 kts TAS is at 7,500 ft., 2700 RPM (74% power). I believe the redline on the tach is 2,700 RPM, too, so it would feel like abusing the engine in my head. Don't know enough about them to know whether that would shorten the life or not.

And I'll definitely follow the suggestion on type clubs. Already joined the Beech board to see the info on the two-door Super III listed above.

This is the first plane I've checked out in person. Want to see a few more before I make an offer.
 
If it was in a hangar I wouldn't worry about it sitting as long as the prebuy goes well.

Getting it ready for IFR, well that can mean a lot of diffrent things,

Getting it ready to use today just get your ticket it, with not needing to get any IMC time, well that's easy and probably not too expensive as long as it has at least one working nav and nav head with glide slope

If it has a IFR GPS and that autopilot, albeit I'd rather have GPSS and altitude hold at least, sounds like you're mostly already there as long as everything works. GPS database update isn't anything to worry about, just make sure everything functions.

As for the owners numbers for the plane, I never even bother to ask, just take the plane up and compare it to the POH, be sure to stall it too, bad rigging is easiest to see in cruise and especially in a stall.
 
There's a comparison chart on Beech Aero Club that details the differences between the constant speed and fixed pitch. The speed difference wasn't much, I don't believe, just 2 or 3 knots. I think the climb difference was a bit more dramatic, but I'd have to pull the chart.
 
I got my PPL in a '69 B23 Musketeer, in addition the following 150 hrs or more. 180 hp Lycoming, and aside from not liking auto gas it was a great airplane. Single door, nice control feel, pedals are spring loaded to airlerons. I'd buy another one without question. The 115 cruise sounds right, and the trailing link gear makes for super smooth roll on landings. For the intended mission I loved it.
Delivered a newer Sundowner for a customer, and aside from two doors and newer avionics it was the same airplane.
Never felt the need for a 200 Hp, but wouldn't want to go down to the 160hp sport.
 
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