April 6th: WTF Is Going on at with Delta at KATL?

FormerHangie

FormerHangie

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FormerHangie
I've been trying to get my wife and daughter back from KMDT since Wednesday evening, Delta has been holding them hostage since then. Now, I'm looking at Delta's flight statuses and the delays they are showing are insane, five hours or more, and lots of cancellations, even coming from areas where the weather is good. I'm looking at Southwest, and their delays are much shorter.

It looks much worse than yesterday, even though the weather is much better today.
 
All depends on where each carrier moved their aircraft to avoid the storms.
 
Storms and tornados. Not much they can do. They're just playing catch up now.
 
FormerHangie said:
I've been trying to get my wife and daughter back from KMDT since Wednesday evening, Delta has been holding them hostage since then. Now, I'm looking at Delta's flight statuses and the delays they are showing are insane, five hours or more, and lots of cancellations, even coming from areas where the weather is good. I'm looking at Southwest, and their delays are much shorter.

It looks much worse than yesterday, even though the weather is much better today.
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Probably the result of trying to reschedule all the flights that were cancelled yesterday.

Didn't ATL get pounded yesterday?
 
Fearless Tower said:
Probably the result of trying to reschedule all the flights that were cancelled yesterday.

Didn't ATL get pounded yesterday?
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Yes. I live south of ATL and I was checking the radar mid day yesterday and it was solid red pretty much over all of Atlanta.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Probably the result of trying to reschedule all the flights that were cancelled yesterday.

Didn't ATL get pounded yesterday?
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We had a pretty good batch of thunderstorms move through a few times, nothing particularly unusual for us, about an inch and a half of rain. Maybe a little more than your average stormy day for us.

What I can't figure out is why Delta is seeing these 3 - 6 hour delays when Southwest is seeing an hour or less. Plus, Delta is cancelling literally half its flights from some locations, many of which have good weather. For example, St. Louis to Atlanta, five of the eight scheduled flights were canceled and the last one that departed was four hours late.
 
FormerHangie said:
What I can't figure out is why Delta is seeing these 3 - 6 hour delays when Southwest is seeing an hour or less. Plus, Delta is cancelling literally half its flights from some locations, many of which have good weather. For example, St. Louis to Atlanta, five of the eight scheduled flights were canceled and the last one that departed was four hours late.
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SWA doesn't have anywhere near the presence at ATL as DAL does, so less overall impact. SWA also doesn't follow a traditional hub and spoke model either.

ATL is Delta's biggest hub, so when the hub gets hammered, the impact is much bigger.
 
FormerHangie said:
What I can't figure out is why Delta is seeing these 3 - 6 hour delays when Southwest is seeing an hour or less. Plus, Delta is cancelling literally half its flights from some locations, many of which have good weather. For example, St. Louis to Atlanta, five of the eight scheduled flights were canceled and the last one that departed was four hours late.
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Back in January a similar situation occured. Many inbounds to ATL experienced re-routes and cancellations due to T-storms. A handful of flights were diverted into Nashville and as they were beginning to re-sequence, ATL was under a ground stop for all inbound Delta flights however SWA was getting released. I assume it to be the mass amount of Delta flights needing gates and re-scheduling over other airlines that serve a smaller portion of ATL.

Edit: as Fearless stated. Same situation would likely occur if this happened in DAL or MDW.
 
FlightAware is showing that Delta canceled 26% of its flights today, it's crazy. The flight my wife was supposed to be on Wednesday leaves MDT at 6:15 PM. The airplane arrived pretty much on time, and then the gate agent announced the flight going back was canceled and that they should all go get lost. Today's edition of that flight is now scheduled to depart at 1:15 AM, a mere seven hours late, and will arrive sometime after 3 AM. That's bad, but it's better than having to buy two nights in a hotel and miss two days at work.
 
FormerHangie said:
Ah, the truth comes out: http://www.ajc.com/travel/delta-exe...s-another-500-flights/FVDUUpfUXTuyLTZb9jQz0I/
Chances are that the flight that's still waiting to leave MDT is either waiting for an airplane or a crew.

EDIT: I don't know what they're going to do when a real storm hits.
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From the reports this was a real storm. The FAA implemented ground delays and ground stops at ATL on Wednesday. According to the news report I read Delta departs more than 1000 flights out of Atlanta daily and Southwest has 125 flights.

Recall the Delta crash at Dallas in 1985. Rather have my family on the ground in the terminal, than in the air when this sort of weather happens.
 
There were several waves that came through the area on Wednesday. The most active ones went right over KATL. it was not pretty.
 
EppyGA said:
There were several waves that came through the area on Wednesday. The most active ones went right over KATL. it was not pretty.
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Yes, but that was on Wednesday. I was referring to the number of cancellations on Thursday. Actually, here it is on Friday, Delta has already canceled 11 percent of their flights today, and if you look at the national weather map, it's one of the calmest days you'll see. Here in Atlanta the skies are blue with winds at 10 - 15.

Southwest has canceled 1%, JetBlue 2%, American 1%, Spirit 3%... Delta 11%. I'm not sure what they're doing differently but they might want to rethink it. My wife and daughter are finally at Hartsfield, 2 and a half hours late. They were waiting for crew. I'm usually a Delta supporter, but they've made a miserable response to the weather situation.
 
FormerHangie said:
Yes, but that was on Wednesday. I was referring to the number of cancellations on Thursday. Actually, here it is on Friday, Delta has already canceled 11 percent of their flights today, and if you look at the national weather map, it's one of the calmest days you'll see. Here in Atlanta the skies are blue with winds at 10 - 15.

Southwest has canceled 1%, JetBlue 2%, American 1%, Spirit 3%... Delta 11%. I'm not sure what they're doing differently but they might want to rethink it. My wife and daughter are finally at Hartsfield, 2 and a half hours late. They were waiting for crew. I'm usually a Delta supporter, but they've made a miserable response to the weather situation.
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It's a ripple effect. Flights canceled yesterday never made it to where the plane was supposed to go...so now today the weather is clear but the airplane is still 1,000 miles away with no crew. It takes a while to sort things out, and with the tarmac delay rule set a few years ago, airlines are very quick to cancel a flight if there's a risk passengers will get stuck sitting on a plane.
 
When a major weather system rolls through a major hub like Atlanta, it can disrupt the schedule for upwards of a week. It takes time to get all the airplanes and crews back into position. Contrary to what seems like popular opinion, airlines do not keep a bunch of spare airplanes and crews around for the occasional storm.
 
FormerHangie said:
Yes, but that was on Wednesday. I was referring to the number of cancellations on Thursday. Actually, here it is on Friday, Delta has already canceled 11 percent of their flights today, and if you look at the national weather map, it's one of the calmest days you'll see. Here in Atlanta the skies are blue with winds at 10 - 15.

Southwest has canceled 1%, JetBlue 2%, American 1%, Spirit 3%... Delta 11%. I'm not sure what they're doing differently but they might want to rethink it. My wife and daughter are finally at Hartsfield, 2 and a half hours late. They were waiting for crew. I'm usually a Delta supporter, but they've made a miserable response to the weather situation.
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None of the others you cite hub out of Atlanta.
If the FAA shut down DFW or Chicago, it is likely American would have some fun too.
 
Brad Z said:
It's a ripple effect. Flights canceled yesterday never made it to where the plane was supposed to go...so now today the weather is clear but the airplane is still 1,000 miles away with no crew. It takes a while to sort things out, and with the tarmac delay rule set a few years ago, airlines are very quick to cancel a flight if there's a risk passengers will get stuck sitting on a plane.
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So, the moral of the story is that if it less than transcontental, drive. Avoid flying if possible.

It's a 12 hour drive from here to Penn State. If my daughter decides to go there, she'll be driving, mostly.
 
Time to spare, go by air! A while back I needed to be in Orlando at a certain time/date, and weather almost cancelled my flight. If it had been cancelled, my only recourse would have been to jump in the car and drive all night.
 
FormerHangie said:
So, the moral of the story is that if it less than transcontental, drive. Avoid flying if possible.

It's a 12 hour drive from here to Penn State. If my daughter decides to go there, she'll be driving, mostly.
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If I can drive in 8 or less, I'll avoid the airlines. And yes, driving leaves you with the most control over meeting travel deadlines.
 
All we can do about the weather is complain. Folks have gotten so used to instant gratification and then something throws a wrench into the works and folks start whining about their little problems.

Rough, I know. I got stuck in Seattle for 4 days once due to weather and subsequent delays. I just took it as it is, others ranted continuously and loudly complained.
 
Bill Jennings said:
If I can drive in 8 or less, I'll avoid the airlines. And yes, driving leaves you with the most control over meeting travel deadlines.
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When we were traveling back and forth between Dubuque and Kansas City, we had the choice of flying or driving. Door to door it was almost exactly the same time either way. My preference was to drive. Sharon's preference was to fly.
 
Zeldman said:
I just took it as it is, others ranted continuously and loudly complained.
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My wife at the time was flying from Germany back to the US a number of years ago. Something mechanical went south on the plane, and doing the re-booking the ranting was long and loud. Lufthansa rebooked most everyone on a flight from an airport across the border in France, the net result of which was a 6 hour delay in arrival time here in the US. They also provided the bus.

When the Ranter in Chief started proclaiming loudly that "This is a Disaster!" she went up to him and loudly said: "No. A disaster is when the wings fall off the plane and everyone dies. This is six hours... get a grip!"

The RIC shut up quickly, but he was not happy about it....
 
FormerHangie said:
We had a pretty good batch of thunderstorms move through a few times, nothing particularly unusual for us, about an inch and a half of rain. Maybe a little more than your average stormy day for us.

What I can't figure out is why Delta is seeing these 3 - 6 hour delays when Southwest is seeing an hour or less. Plus, Delta is cancelling literally half its flights from some locations, many of which have good weather. For example, St. Louis to Atlanta, five of the eight scheduled flights were canceled and the last one that departed was four hours late.
Click to expand...
Ah yeah that would be because like must travelers you have a rather one dimensional thinking of how airlines work.
 
Bill Jennings said:
If I can drive in 8 or less, I'll avoid the airlines. And yes, driving leaves you with the most control over meeting travel deadlines.
Click to expand...

For the last two summers I drove from NM to Alaska and back. Partly to avoid air travel, mostly because part of the adventure was the drive though northwest US and western Canada. 8 to 10 hours total travel time by air, 5 to 7 days driving one way.
 
Bill Jennings said:
If I can drive in 8 or less, I'll avoid the airlines. And yes, driving leaves you with the most control over meeting travel deadlines.
Click to expand...

I never drive more than 3 hours that's my limit. I'll never be one of those guys that gets an RV and putzes around all over the country. Ever wonder why it's so easy to find a low mileage RV ? That sounds like pure torture to me. Maybe if they had a self driving one but I doubt it.

I'd much rather either fly myself or ride up in the Jumpseat and make some new friends while solving world problems.
 
Zeldman said:
All we can do about the weather is complain. Folks have gotten so used to instant gratification and then something throws a wrench into the works and folks start whining about their little problems.

Rough, I know. I got stuck in Seattle for 4 days once due to weather and subsequent delays. I just took it as it is, others ranted continuously and loudly complained.
Click to expand...

Was that on your nickel or your employer's? We're looking at about $800 worth of additional travel expenses and lost wages

ifly4fun said:
Check SWA next time a hurricane or storms roll through BWI. Or Better yet, Let a simple router fail...
https://www.dallasnews.com/business...-grounded-flights-equated-thousand-year-flood
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All we had was a cold front passage that triggered thunderstorms. This one lasted longer than most, but the most severe ones bypassed Atlanta. The Weather Channel didn't even bother to name it.

Art VanDelay said:
Ah yeah that would be because like must travelers you have a rather one dimensional thinking of how airlines work.
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Or in this case, not work.

Zeldman said:
For the last two summers I drove from NM to Alaska and back. Partly to avoid air travel, mostly because part of the adventure was the drive though northwest US and western Canada. 8 to 10 hours total travel time by air, 5 to 7 days driving one way.
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That sounds awesome!

Art VanDelay said:
I never drive more than 3 hours that's my limit. I'll never be one of those guys that gets an RV and putzes around all over the country. Ever wonder why it's so easy to find a low mileage RV ? That sounds like pure torture to me. Maybe if they had a self driving one but I doubt it.

I'd much rather either fly myself or ride up in the Jumpseat and make some new friends while solving world problems.
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That's nice if it's available to you. It isn't to most.
 
Bill Jennings said:
If I can drive in 8 or less, I'll avoid the airlines. And yes, driving leaves you with the most control over meeting travel deadlines.
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This. We had the choice of driving or flying from Denver to Wichita for training. They would either buy us an airline ticket or rent us a car. I always chose to drive. Others made a different choice.
 
Art VanDelay said:
Ah yeah that would be because like must travelers you have a rather one dimensional thinking of how airlines work.
Click to expand...
It's amazing, right? I would have thought that on a pilot board at least most here (as aviators) would maybe have an inkling of the complexity and variables that would go into airline operations when it comes to weather and maintenance. It surprises me that there are so many that speak like the general public when it comes to irregular operations ("These airlines are lying to us! They said the flight was delayed due to weather, and there's blue skies outside! LIARS!)
 
Sluggo63 said:
It's amazing, right? I would have thought that on a pilot board at least most here (as aviators) would maybe have an inkling of the complexity and variables that would go into airline operations when it comes to weather and maintenance. It surprises me that there are so many that speak like the general public when it comes to irregular operations ("These airlines are lying to us! They said the flight was delayed due to weather, and there's blue skies outside! LIARS!)
Click to expand...
It would help if they were a little more honest. These days, anyone can check current weather. So if the delays are caused by airplanes and crews being out of position because of yesterday's weather, it might be a better idea to state that fact.
 
Art VanDelay said:
Ah yeah that would be because like must travelers you have a rather one dimensional thinking of how airlines work.
Click to expand...

Frankly I'm amazed airlines can get back on schedule as fast as they can, what a logistical nightmare. Planes and crews scattered about and it's your job to put the puzzle back together? No thanks, I'd lose my hair.

Art VanDelay said:
or ride up in the Jumpseat and make some new friends while solving world problems.
Click to expand...

Wow, I never knew the jumpseat had such magical powers.
 
FormerHangie said:
Was that on your nickel or your employer's? We're looking at about $800 worth of additional travel expenses and lost wages.
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I was jump seating on my way to work. Lost 3 days work at about 600 per day, plus hotel bills I was not used to paying. I would have been ****ed if I was on my way home for my days off....:lol:
 
Everskyward said:
It would help if they were a little more honest. These days, anyone can check current weather. So if the delays are caused by airplanes and crews being out of position because of yesterday's weather, it might be a better idea to state that fact.
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You think they're being dishonest, or do you think they are giving information to the least common denominator? They just can't win. I deadhead a whole lot for work, and I'm always sitting in the concourse listening to the "armchair airline captains" explain to their families, seatmates, me, or anyone else who will listen how the airlines are lying and they know better. "It's BS! They say they are out of crews! Look at all these pilots around here (points to FO trying to jumpseat on flight, who doesn't even work for the same carrier). Just get him to fly it!"

To be fair, I've heard guys go the other way and explain in minute detail about the MEL they have on the APU generator and blah, blah, MEL, blah, blah, slot time, blah, blah, start one engine at the gate, blah, blah... Enough... We get it. The plane is broken, but it isn't going to be an issue. Thanks for the systems ground school.

People don't understand how a small thing can turn into a big deal. God forbid one seat in a row is stuck in recline mode and won't come upright. That probably MELs two rows of seat, and would wreak havoc on trying to get out on time. But make a PA and say that the flight is going to be 2 hours late because 19B won't come to the full upright position and see what the reaction is from the masses. They'd be incredulous! They don't understand that they probably have to remove that whole row, and replace them, and not every station has extra seats lying around, and even when it does get fixed, the paperwork for that would take at least 30 minutes to get right.

I didn't get it either until I worked for an airline. There is much more that goes into safely operating a flight from DSM to ORD than meets the eye.

And this is why I'm glad I'm in the cargo world now. I don't have to deal with any of those issues, and not one of my "passengers" ever complained about me landing...
 
The other problem is the flights are so full. If they cancel one flight and flights are averaging 90% full, that takes 10 flights to make up getting that one flight to next destination. I have a feeling that 90% number is too low, seems like the flights are darn near 100% on a lot of the flights I am on. Now that I have used a few facts and logical arguments on POA, I am going to say the airlines suck, they don't give a crap about their customers, look at their policies on changing anything or use of FF miles. I only fly American or Delta and Delta is much more friendly than American. I hate AA.
 
Brad Z said:
It's a ripple effect. Flights canceled yesterday never made it to where the plane was supposed to go...so now today the weather is clear but the airplane is still 1,000 miles away with no crew. It takes a while to sort things out, and with the tarmac delay rule set a few years ago, airlines are very quick to cancel a flight if there's a risk passengers will get stuck sitting on a plane.
Click to expand...

I do not travel on airlines much but have been delayed a couple of times for relatively short amounts of time. I really prefer to be stuck in a terminal than a spam can, even for a half hour.

Art VanDelay said:
Ah yeah that would be because like must travelers you have a rather one dimensional thinking of how airlines work.
Click to expand...

This is one reason I lurk here, some really good knowledge floats around and I see a different perspective. There are always complainers but maybe the airlines could help themselves by telling folks they could be cramped in their seat instead of the terminal...
 
Greg Bockelman said:
When a major weather system rolls through a major hub like Atlanta, it can disrupt the schedule for upwards of a week. It takes time to get all the airplanes and crews back into position. Contrary to what seems like popular opinion, airlines do not keep a bunch of spare airplanes and crews around for the occasional storm.
Click to expand...

This. And crews timing out. I listened to three crews in the tango line for departure tell the controller they just timed out and needed to return to the gate (well, return somewhere, all the gates were full) on Wed evening during the fourth wave of thunderstorms via LiveATC.

One crew even tried to negotiate...

"Think we'll be departing here shortly? We're number one at the hold line. Ground said to ask you, since we're about to time out."

"Once we get everyone in the elephant line down the runway here, to turn the airport around to the west, you'll be first to go. Be about six minutes."

"We've got two."

"Sorry, that isn't happening."

I felt a little bad for those guys. Number one and nope...

Later I heard them ask to return to the gate and they were taxied down the runway to an exit past the conga line. Never heard how long it took them to get a gate. Probably as long as it would have taken to just fly the trip. LOL.

What a mess.
 
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