roncachamp
Final Approach
Why is that important?
approaches to private fields?
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Why is that important?
olasek
Pattern Altitude
I guess this is the only way if as claimed before this was really a GPS-WAAS approach.
roncachamp
Final Approach
Wally, what are some examples of published IAPs that you've designed?
roncachamp
Final Approach
So descent below the MIA in IMC is okay as long as the landing site is not an airport?
Not in that order.
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EdFred
Taxi to Parking
Hard to land without losing altitude. I don't know too many MRA/MEA/MOCAs at 0AGL.
roncachamp
Final Approach
You have an amazing grasp of the obvious. Why is it important to lose altitude without being out of radar contact for any longer than necessary?
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
Just to clear up airspace. Not that there is a lot of traffic up there, but a V does run within 4nm of the field, and it wouldn't be out of the question for it to take 30 minutes or more to be able to cancel after on the ground. The pay phone may or may not work, and cell service is almost non-existent.
Doggtyred
En-Route
If your approach takes you below the min Alt of the victor airway, and the missed would take you to some hold point, why would a no-radar approach lock down the victor airway?? I can understand holding the airspace for the approach and missed. Your rationale, while well intentioned, doesn't make much sense.
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
I *thought* and I could be wrong was that the airspace gets locked down until they have RADAR contact, or until the plane is verified on the ground. There are no assumptions that the plane is out of the air. But I don't have all that memorized.
Doggtyred
En-Route
The APPROACH does. With regards to your assumptions regarding the approach you are on the right track. The victor airways are not the approach.
If I'm on the victor airway and you descend 500 feet below me on your transition to the approach, we have separation.
If YOU go missed you fly to your MAP and you get reassimilated into the enroute structure with or without radar contact. The world around you carries on without incident, unless they are holding for the approach (or airspace impacted by that approach) to open back up.
John Collins
En-Route
My understanding is that the private approach will be included in the GPS database. For example, Heavens Landing (GE99), a private airport with a RNAV GPS approach they paid for, is in the Garmin database, but the approach charts are numbered and strictly controlled. So, the approach is in the database for everyone and if you have the chart, you will know the rest of the story.
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
I am just assuming that since I'm so close to the victor, I could in theory pop back up on the scope and cause a lack of separation. There is also another intersecting victor that may be affected as well.
roncachamp
Final Approach
The IAP and airway would have to overlap, but it would only "lock down" the airway from 1000' above the missed approach hold altitude and below.
roncachamp
Final Approach
Nonradar separation procedures could be used.
roncachamp
Final Approach
Minimum vertical separation is 1000 feet.
Legal or Roll Your Own? There is a way to do it legally for sure, even unpublished. I've flown into a few private communities that had published and unpublished approaches. I had a "roll your own" VOR/GPS cross referencing approach in Class G to get into my ranch back then. It would safely get me to 300' AGL over a known high visibility reference point (Porn Shop/Truck Stop with bright flashing lights, can't buy a beer but we got 3 Porn Shops...) 6 miles down a major highway to a landmarked turn to a 2 mile final. The path is basically unobstructed above 50' agl.
There would be maybe 10 days a year where this would fail to get me in.
They ain't lookin dude... We all know it's not legal, fine. That does not necessarily make it unsafe. There are huge parts of this country that are flat and sparsely obstructed. We don't really have to concern ourselves with minimum clearances because we can enter values of "infinity". I fly at the lowest IFR altitude to the IAF I created on the V-Airway, ask if he has any traffic near me, cancel my IFR and descend into G airspace. I've already called my wife and got the altimeter and ceiling. I have a missed approach that has me in safe terrain in G until I can get back with ATC and on the Airway to an ILS. Some places it's safe to do, other places it's not.
azure
Final Approach
I don't think this one was very safe. It was a 2 mile leg that you timed based on how long it took you under different, not very well controlled conditions. At 60 kts, that's 2 minutes +- at least 5 seconds. So to really give yourself a safety buffer, you have to add a few seconds to your time. But from the power line to the approach end of the runway is about 1500 feet, or 15 seconds at 60 kts. Wait 5 seconds too long before starting down and you're slipping it in unless you have a strong headwind (unusual at night).
I'm too lazy right now to do the math to verify that all that works out, but that was my experience flying it visually in daylight. Basically if I was going to use that runway at night I'd wait until I was practically over the threshold and slip it in. Usually I just landed the other way at night, even if it meant a slightly downwind landing.
Ted
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iFlyNothing
This is referring to a Roll-Your-Own approach, i.e. doing your 5 nm leg GPS approach. In that case, it would not be in the database. You would have to manually input the waypoints.
In the case of the private field that has a paid for legal GPS approach, that is another matter.
Doggtyred
En-Route
IFR altitudes are 1000 ft apart. VFR aircraft cruising altitudes are interspersed between the IFR ones. If you are at 6000 ft and I'm VFR at 5500, we are separated wether we see each other or not.
roncachamp
Final Approach
True, but irrelevant to this discussion.
Doggtyred
En-Route
How is it irrelevant?
roncachamp
Final Approach
Because the issuance of an approach clearance wouldn't "lock down" the Victor airways (or the additional Class E airspace that would have to be established to contain the IAP) to VFR operations. Separation would be an issue only between IFR aircraft.