Approach and IAF

Indiana_Pilot

Indiana_Pilot

Line Up and Wait
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
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802
Location
Connersville, IN
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Flying "B"
Does ATC see that I included an IAF? say I want to shoot the RNAV 22 into Lexington.. I am just off NERVE the have filed my next waypoint as VICGO (IAF).... if it's available will you guys see this or will you just show NERVE then LEX? Just curious as it would make planning and programming the GPS easier :)
 
It's there somewhere. It may or may not just be showing on the Flight Progress Strip, but it is accessible to them. Big question is did you get Cleared as filed. If you didn't, was VICGO included in the clearance you did get? Did you get any amendments while enroute? If the last clearance you received included VICGO, then yes they know it, not that you filed it, but it's what you got. This is going to lead to Lost Com stuff. If your last clearance received was KLEX via NERVE Direct, then going NERVE VICGO and doing the Approach is a good way to go whether you 'filed' it or not. If you choose to go to some point in the sky directly over KLEX first and then UPRAW they'll work around it
 
I am never have filed an IAF before but I am going to this time.. and I am guessing if I receive "cleared as filed" then I am good.. guess I have never asked myself this before and usually fly direct or get vectored.. Thanks!
 
Indiana_Pilot said:
I am never have filed an IAF before but I am going to this time.. and I am guessing if I receive "cleared as filed" then I am good.. guess I have never asked myself this before and usually fly direct or get vectored.. Thanks!
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Cool. They may not using 22 when you get there. Ain't nothing wrong with filing it though. Well kinda. There are some places that prefer you don't try to guess what Approach you're going to get when you file
 
I'm not an expert. But, in my experience, controllers have always routed me in the way that is most expedient for traffic flow, once I've reached the terminal area, regardless of how I've filed. If I want to do the full procedure, I usually have to tell that to the controller. There's usually a hand off of some kind from the enroute portion to the terminal area, and when told to contact XYZ approach on such and such frequency, the controller usually says something like, "N12345 say approach requested and how will it terminate?" This is my cue to tell them I want a specific approach from a specific IAF. And, if I want to fly the full procedure, I tell them that as well. Has that not been others experience?
 
If you filed the IAF in your flight plan and CD cleared you as filed, you're good. If they can't allow it they either won't clear you for it, or amend it to something else.

Even filing NERVE then KLEX would be sufficient. You're going to get vectors anyway at KLEX for either the runway and/or the approach in use.
 
Indiana_Pilot said:
I am never have filed an IAF before but I am going to this time.. and I am guessing if I receive "cleared as filed" then I am good.. guess I have never asked myself this before and usually fly direct or get vectored.. Thanks!
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Give it a shot, but in my experience it’s more miss than hit.

From a lost com standpoint, filing to the IAF is not a bad idea. From a practical standpoint, ATC almost always vectors me off the route during the arrival for sequencing.


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Fearless Tower said:
Give it a shot, but in my experience it’s more miss than hit.

From a lost com standpoint, filing to the IAF is not a bad idea. From a practical standpoint, ATC almost always vectors me off the route during the arrival for sequencing.
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I used to subscribe to that philosophy but ultimately decided it didn't matter. Weather changes, wind changes, preferred approaches at towered airports change.

Lost comm aside, especially for nontowered airports, it's easy enough to get to a point in the flight where you know which approach you want and ask for Direct to it from whomever you are talking to at the time. So long as traffic allows, they'll accommodate.

On a very short flight, sure. You have a pretty good idea of the weather and, if your clearance is "as filed" or otherwise includes that waypoint, it will be a workload saver.
 
Indiana_Pilot said:
Does ATC see that I included an IAF?
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Not normally at a TRACON. If a center is running the approaches to the airport, they have the ability to easily see your entire route. Our arrival strips just show the destination airport and a fix paired to an entry point into our airspace.

If you want to increase the likely hood a controller sees your requested IAF (and for some reason don't want to verbalize this on initial contact) then the best way would be to add it to the remarks section of your flight plan. i.e. remarks: req iaf VICGO. You have to keep remarks short if you want it all displayed on the controllers strip. More than likely in busy airspace you will be vectored by the controller and not be on flight plan route when you enter the TRACON's airspace.

The only time a TRACON controller is going to request a strip be delivered from flight data on an arrival to view your full route would be if you were indeed NORDO to see what you're going to do.

I personally just file /G direct to destination and when I'm talking to the controller that runs the approach for my destination airport I simply request the approach and entry that I want. i.e. req direct xxxxx for the rnavxx or req VTF for the rnavxx
 
Radar Contact said:
Not normally at a TRACON. If a center is running the approaches to the airport, they have the ability to easily see your entire route. Our arrival strips just show the destination airport and a fix paired to an entry point into our airspace.

If you want to increase the likely hood a controller sees your requested IAF (and for some reason don't want to verbalize this on initial contact) then the best way would be to add it to the remarks section of your flight plan. i.e. remarks: req iaf VICGO. You have to keep remarks short if you want it all displayed on the controllers strip. More than likely in busy airspace you will be vectored by the controller and not be on flight plan route when you enter the TRACON's airspace.

The only time a TRACON controller is going to request a strip be delivered from flight data on an arrival to view your full route would be if you were indeed NORDO to see what you're going to do.

I personally just file /G direct to destination and when I'm talking to the controller that runs the approach for my destination airport I simply request the approach and entry that I want. i.e. req direct xxxxx for the rnavxx or req VTF for the rnavxx
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Nice.. that is what I was wondering..
 
Radar Contact said:
Not normally at a TRACON. If a center is running the approaches to the airport, they have the ability to easily see your entire route. Our arrival strips just show the destination airport and a fix paired to an entry point into our airspace.

If you want to increase the likely hood a controller sees your requested IAF (and for some reason don't want to verbalize this on initial contact) then the best way would be to add it to the remarks section of your flight plan. i.e. remarks: req iaf VICGO. You have to keep remarks short if you want it all displayed on the controllers strip. More than likely in busy airspace you will be vectored by the controller and not be on flight plan route when you enter the TRACON's airspace.

The only time a TRACON controller is going to request a strip be delivered from flight data on an arrival to view your full route would be if you were indeed NORDO to see what you're going to do.

I personally just file /G direct to destination and when I'm talking to the controller that runs the approach for my destination airport I simply request the approach and entry that I want. i.e. req direct xxxxx for the rnavxx or req VTF for the rnavxx
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What is the character limit for Remarks before it is truncated?
 
luvflyin said:
If anyone adds FRC is it still put up front? That would make about 18 what you should limit it to if you want it all seen.
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Yes, if amended to an FRC then you'd lose 4 spots for that. Gotta keep remarks brief or at least get enough in that the controller would want to FR the strip to read it all.

I'm still a fan of verbalizing what you want on initial contact with the controller running the approach. Unless it's just crazy busy I will always approve whatever the pilot is asking (i.e. different IAF's, VTF, RNAV vs ILS, procedure turn vs straight in, circling, etc)
 
Radar Contact said:
Yes, if amended to an FRC then you'd lose 4 spots for that. Gotta keep remarks brief or at least get enough in that the controller would want to FR the strip to read it all.

I'm still a fan of verbalizing what you want on initial contact with the controller running the approach. Unless it's just crazy busy I will always approve whatever the pilot is asking (i.e. different IAF's, VTF, RNAV vs ILS, procedure turn vs straight in, circling, etc)
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Yeah. Using 'remarks' to request an approach probably isn't worth the time, but it can't hurt either
 
I've not had them often realize that my last waypoint before the field was the start of an approach, not sure what they see on their end
 
James331 said:
I've not had them often realize that my last waypoint before the field was the start of an approach, not sure what they see on their end
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James,
I touched on it a bit earlier in this thread. No, we don't see what you file prior to the destination. The only fix that displays on our arrival strips is a fix pair for the entry point into our airspace.
 
I file IAFs on some training flights. An example is KJNX - OWWEN - KSOP. Going direct OWWEN keeps me out of Fayetteville Class C and is the IAF for the RNAV 23 approach into KSOP. Works for everyone. If the weather is VFR, we'll hood it down the RNAV 23, do the missed straight out to the course reversal for the ILS 5, shoot that approach, go missed to the nearby VOR, then "vector" us back for the LOC 5 or RNAV 5 to a circle to land on and go get lunch. If it's IFR, we do the same thing, just stay with the Fayetteville approach control and cancel prior to landing, or on the ground if it's that low.
 
I sometimes think here in the NE ATC doesn't give a damn what you filed. Even if you get "cleard as filed" all bets are off once you launch. You gotta just roll with it.
 
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