Apple Worth 1 Trillion
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SkyDog58
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Canis Non Grata
Is the daughter spending $750 on a phone one of the three that you are supporting? I'm not judging but
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FormerHangie
En-Route
Is the daughter spending $750 on a phone one of the three that you are supporting? I'm not judging but
Yes, yes she is, and it's not $750, it's a full AMU.
I jost got a bill from her university for her first semester's charges. Makes the phone look like pocket change.
LoneAspen
Line Up and Wait
While I don't consider myself an Apple fanboi per se, they do hold a special place in my technology life, going all the way back to when I had an Apple //e in high school. Had a complete setup with the extended 80-column card, monitor shelf, green screen monitor, and two Disk ][ drives. I loved that little system, and wish I still had it.
After owning clamshell phones from a variety of vendors, when I switched to smart phones, the only line I've ever had are iPhones. While they've frustrated me at times, it's never been enough to make me switch to Android.
And at my last company, all the engineering staff used Macbooks for development. I'd never used Mac at work, only Windows, so wasn't sure I'd like it, but turns out I love it. It's a great platform for development, and I really love the Magic Mouse gesturing. As hokey as it sounds, I find myself much more productive using a Mac than Windows, and don't think I'll ever switch.
When I think how Jobs and Woz got started, and what they did, I think it's freaking amazing. As much as I've read that Jobs could be a real a-hole to work for, I think what he and Woz (and all the others there in the early days) did was really special. I'd never want to work for Apple, as I prefer working for small companies, and I've read the place can be a real meat grinder. But I do respect what they've done, and I'll continue using their products and giving them money.
Still wish I had that Apple //e.......
After owning clamshell phones from a variety of vendors, when I switched to smart phones, the only line I've ever had are iPhones. While they've frustrated me at times, it's never been enough to make me switch to Android.
And at my last company, all the engineering staff used Macbooks for development. I'd never used Mac at work, only Windows, so wasn't sure I'd like it, but turns out I love it. It's a great platform for development, and I really love the Magic Mouse gesturing. As hokey as it sounds, I find myself much more productive using a Mac than Windows, and don't think I'll ever switch.
When I think how Jobs and Woz got started, and what they did, I think it's freaking amazing. As much as I've read that Jobs could be a real a-hole to work for, I think what he and Woz (and all the others there in the early days) did was really special. I'd never want to work for Apple, as I prefer working for small companies, and I've read the place can be a real meat grinder. But I do respect what they've done, and I'll continue using their products and giving them money.
Still wish I had that Apple //e.......
AKiss20
Line Up and Wait
Their hardware design, especially in the MacBook pros has annoyed me in this generation, but I still really love the OS. To me it’s basically “Unix that works on a daily basis.” I use and support Linux daily at work and really don’t want to have to deal with all that on my personal laptop. I grew up on windows but switched to Mac for college and will never go back. Can’t stand windows anymore really.
Dav8or
Final Approach
I am too. Between my wife and I- 2) iMac (one I really need to sell) 3) Macbook Pros 2) 3) iPads (one iPad one I really need to sell) iPhone 6s 1) iPhone 4s (spare) 1) Apple TV 1) Time capsule 3) iPods 1) 20" Cinema display used as a second monitor and 1) G5 tower I really need to sell.
I will say though that I run and repair these products as long as they will go, or the software gods will let me. We do not go out an buy all the latests releases. The list above doesn't even cover all the Apple products I've trashed, sold or given away over the years.
Catalo
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Catalo
I wasn't trying to troll him just an observation and a little bit of shockDon't you just "hate" people that refuse to be trolled?
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
denverpilot
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I didn’t take it as a troll, either.
I’ve said my piece about their downhill quality slide. Popularity does not equal quality.
It does however, pay their bills nicely.
deonb
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deonb
It just doesn't get any shorter than that...
denverpilot
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Aztec Flyer
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DaleB
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And corporate drones. I think the iPhone is the only corporate issued device now that Crackberries have gone away... haven't they? I haven't paid attention to them in years. I'd give anything to switch to an Android device... except the monthly cost of paying for my own phone and service.
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Aztec Flyer
I'm holding out for the iPlane.
You know, smooth organic white surfaces, imbedded touch screens, no headphone jack, inadequate battery capacity, the works...
CC268
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CC268
It’s gonna put everyone outta business
Dav8or
Final Approach
One trillion dollars. One trillion dollars dude. Maybe, just maybe, that many people paying more than they have to know something you don't. Maybe Microsoft and Google will get there someday with their super awesome superior products at low, low Walmart prices, but then again, if they continue to sell their wares for what they are worth, it's going to be really, really hard to get to one trillion.
denverpilot
Tied Down
They know they enjoy that feeling of smugness one gets from buying a Benz or a Bentley at a stop light, but they found out Apple will sell them smugness on monthly payments.
Hip hop world star and high school fears of belonging all wrapped up in a nice origami box to alleviate the fears of not being one of the enlightened who camp out on city streets just to touch it, and then be told they’re holding it wrong when the antenna isn’t designed right.
Cultists will spend whatever it takes to remain in the cult. See: Scientology. The other cult with “amazing tech”. LOL.
Tarheelpilot
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NJP_MAN
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They would never make a concealable subwoofer. Then all the followers wouldn't know who's product is shoved where the sun don't shine. Apple's subwoofer has a white tail that conviently shows itself to let everyone know.
I'm an old IT dog; most "innovations" I've seen are renames/repackaging of older ideas - sometimes multi-decades older. Cell phones are great. Internet access on a phone is handy. But I don't get religious about OS', DBs, development platforms, virtualization tools, etc. Or computer controlled radios.
Personally, I prefer being able to change a battery. But 'twixt Apple and Android based devices, there is not a groat's worth of difference. Make a call, text, check email, find a gas station.
Personally, I prefer being able to change a battery. But 'twixt Apple and Android based devices, there is not a groat's worth of difference. Make a call, text, check email, find a gas station.
denverpilot
Tied Down
Run ForeFlight. I wish they’d fix that but there’s other decent options these days so, still haven’t renewed.
Dav8or
Final Approach
Just sayin'. A trillion dollars in market cap. If Apple was really selling snake oil to the sheeple/cultists I think by now a lot of them would have smelled a rat by now. It's been decades. I'm sure if the product was really inferior and/or wildly over priced as you say, they would be on a downward trajectory by now. You are wrong. Many of Apple's products do offer real value and consumers are willing to pay extra for it, but you'll likely never see it that way.
denverpilot
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They’re nearly identical products to others, technically. The vast majority of consumers are using the laptops as nothing more than chromebooks.
The phones have been behind now for quite a while, with the occasional tech bump, at a 25% higher profit margin for the same hardware.
Tablets? Nothing new there at all in a very long time. Just different sizes and the venerable “pencil” almost no one needs, and even fewer actually use if they have it.
The value is in the snobbery at this point. They once were years ahead of the competition but they let the innovators and that culture go a long time ago.
If consumers knew how to “smell a rat” they wouldn’t buy BMWs to be seen in them. There’s not a single published article that has ever once said they’re not an expensive maintenance nightmare with overpriced parts in the last two decades. They’d be over at the Honda dealership buying an Accord. People don’t buy BMW for true quality. They buy BMW for snobbery.
So you’re right, they see “value” but they don’t see technical value, they see a herd mentality value. A cult value. A marketing wank value.
The vast majority of Apple customers aren’t qualified to even speak on technical value, software engineering, user interface design, or anything technical really. I bet 2% of their customer base has ever written any code.
Coders... and I get this... like anything with Unix under the hood and a solid UI. Almost none want to be on a Windows box. That’s technical value, and they’re stuck with the horrid touchbar and flat keyboard to get the OS. If Apple offered a legal way to buy OSX to run on other hardware most techies would never buy another laptop from them again. And yes, it does run just fine on other hardware. It’s just an Intel laptop anymore, not running any proprietary Apple hardware.
Match the hardware and you can run a hackintosh easily. Cheaper. And better if you need a powerful workstation class desktop with multiple monitors. But not legally. Which only really matters in business. At home, a well built Hackintosh is a far better value in system performance these days.
Not so sure about that. The A11 Bionic benchmarks faster than a Snapdragon 845 and it has a dedicated SIMD engine for neural networks while the Qualcomm chip is still doing GPU offload. I think most of the Android world is still using eMMC while iOS devices switched to NVMe a while back.
denverpilot
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Really depends on the device and what you’re doing with it. CPU and GPU benchmarks aren’t really all that accurate of what the user experience is. A fast CPU is worthless if it’s not doing something, same with a fast GPU.
As others here have mentioned, ForeFlight runs great on iOS devices that were purposefully (and incredibly insecurely) held back to iOS 10. The OS bloat eats up a lot of that faster CPU, and in Apple’s case, they really only have themselves to blame for poor OS performance.
Word on the street is the iOS 12 beta brings a lot of life back to older hardware right now. Whether Apple can manage to leave that well enough alone or if they have to cram in more crap to slow the devices back down before iOS 12 is released, remains to be seen. I’ve talked to four IT pros who’ve purposefully shoved the iOS 12 beta onto their iPhone 6/7 era devices just to get them back to something close to how they performed when originally released on iOS 10.
It’d be really nice to say soonish that Apple just completely screwed up iOS 11 performance-wise and fixed it in iOS 12, but I’m not holding my breath.
One friend who’s analyzed what they’re doing in iOS 12 says it’s about now they’re scheduling the CPU for full speed. In iOS 11 code runs a while before the OS lets the CPU ramp up to full speed anyway, another thing benchmarks usually miss or ignore. The methodology for battery saving by not allowing the CPU to run full speed is significant.
Faster hardware *usually* also means more power consumption and a significant hit to battery life.
iOS 12 is a different methodology per him. It immediately goes to full CPU per application and ramps DOWN after launch, giving a much snappier user experience while still trying like hell not to crush the battery power.
I don’t know the Android power and speed games as well, but they’re similar. None of these hardware devices are really allowed to run at full speed for more than a few seconds at a time. Battery tech and power just isn’t there to do it and the consumer doesn’t want larger devices or changeable batteries.
Well, some of us want changeable batteries because we know the tech limitations. I’d happily take a changeable battery and a “to full speed” setting in the OS and keep an extra battery on charge and nearby with the rapid charging tech now available, since that same tech also kills the cells much much faster than slower charges. And a choice of charging rates on the chargers.
But we don’t get that stuff. The manufacturers want to make devices for dumb people only.
LoneAspen
Line Up and Wait
That's one thing I'll bash Apple on. As much as I like my Macbook, MacOS, and Magic Mouse, I absolutely HATE their flat-key keyboards, both on the Macbook and their standalone keyboards.
At my last job, when they dropped off my Macbook they also left one of the Apple keyboards. I took it back to IT and exchanged it for a PC keyboard instead. I'd rather use a cheap $20 PC keyboard than the flat-key disaster from Apple.
Dav8or
Final Approach
Wow. Who's the snob now?? As a consumer, why in the hell should have to write code to be able to choose the best machine for me?! I love it, then you go on to say-
You basically admit that the Apple OS is superior to all other choices that the consumer has. The Mac OS is the value in buying Apple. The fact that the Apple product also comes in an attractive form that all the other companies copy (mostly badly) is just a big plus, but not the real reason for purchase. Only a computer snob would suggest that I not speak an opinion on computers unless I were a coder, or that I should build a Hackintosh.
Get over your bad self.
If we're talking about generational speed improvements, no. Just no. A very blunt example is the switch from HDD to SSD. Faster and less power. A slightly more subtle example is the switch from planar to FinFET, but really we see it every time a process change goes to a smaller geometry.
Even then, it's not power that we care about WRT to battery life. It's energy. Say gen1 consumes 1W and takes 1 second to do a task while gen2 consumes double the power but takes 200ms to do the same task. Despite the lower power consumption, gen1 took a much larger hit to battery life.
denverpilot
Tied Down
Ummm no. Saying that coders want Unix is like saying humans breathe. LOL. Windows is a crappy development platform. But besides that it doesn’t indicate the OS is all that great, it just indicates that it’s Unix, which makes it “greater than” stupid Windows.
I offered up that users of OSX literally don’t have the chops to know whether they’re using something well written or total crap. As long as the UI looks pretty theyhave absolutely no idea what they’re talking about when it comes to assessing the “value” of the operating system.
And about that operating system...
As an OS, OSX is a decade or more old design with a ton of idiotic cruft laid on top of it that makes it do some incredibly stupid things.
Example: Anybody who knows OSX internals has typed this to get around Apple’s hideous self-built DNS cache...
sudo killall -HUP mDNSResponder
The Apple caching DNS server built into their OS is about the dumbest implementation of a local DNS cache anyone has ever seen. And theres a lot of them out there. Some written by the people who write the core DNS servers on the internet and that were available to Apple to use if they wanted to, but they “do their own thing” on certain modules of their OS and many of them are utter garbage.
mDNSResponder will not update itself even if every DNS source it has shows an updated record. Even if the zone SOA serial has changed. Nothing but a timer. It won’t even check after the query later for speed and later accuracy. It’s *insanely dumb code*. And a core OS module. Sith twenty years of experience running enormous DNS architectures for ISPs, I cant even begin to describe how bad mDNSResponder is.
There’s a whole bunch of crufty hacks like that in OSX.
If you ever have to interact with the full disk encryption when something goes wrong in it, you’ll wonder as a twenty year Unix guy, what crack pipe their engineers were smoking.
Neat idea back when they released it, first if it’s kind, and revolutionary back then, but sadly they got stuck there and never made it sane.
I loathe Windows as an OS and still have to solidly say BitLocker is a better and much smarter design than Apple’s. Apple got stuck on their desktop OS in the early 2000s and hasn’t moved the needle significantly in OSX design in all that time. It has some truly awful underpinnings that users don’t know are under there, and admins cuss at. You want to see an angry person? Have something happen to an encrypted disk in a Mac that the GUI can’t deal with. Something fixable but requiring work at the command line in the real Unix underneath. The number of “WTFs” that come out of the admin’s mouth will be in direct proportion to the amount of crack the OS coders were smoking in Cupertino the year they created that disk overlay idea OSX uses.
If we really want to talk about Apple’s largest failing to date in OSX, we could talk about Apple’s complete inability to build ANY centralized controls into OSX for corporate environments and even their completely failed “OSX Server”, both major variants of it, that look like a kid in their basement slapped OpenLDAP on a Linux box and tinkered with it for ten minutes. iOS has really decent corporate controls now, built in. OSX has absolutely nothing worth talking about.
Try to do a corporate audit of what’s installed on 100 Macs in a solid objective way for a security audit without third party software. That stuff should be IN the OS by now. We’re closing on 2020. You can’t even associate 100 Macs with a corporate Apple ID. Managing 100 Apple IDs for Macs is a disaster. Windows is light years ahead of Apple with Active Directory for centralized management, and Powershell as screwed up as it is, offers a very consistent code interface to that management.
With correct credentials on a Windows network, checking and testing that whole disk encryption is turned on for a thousand machines is a three line Powershell script. All you have to do is join the Windows boxes to a Domain and your entire security policy will be pushed to them and enforced immediately.
Without centralized key management and pre-made logins on thousands of Macs, that type of thing is literally impossible. They’re now two *decades* behind on that with TWO major initiatives and versions of OSX Server trying to accomplish it. Utter failure.
The above are just the tip of the iceberg on OSX. iOS is better. It gets the love at the space donut and has for a while now. OSX is hideous at all sorts of things under the hood.
Coders liking OSX isn’t any “admission” of the OS being better at anything other than it being Unix based. Most of that is that it has a sane scriptable shell and even that’s getting a big run for its money with Powershell on Windows. Windows Server doesn’t even need a GUI enabled by default anymore and has full security and policy management that’s auditable and confirmable.
Nobody runs OSX as a server. Not anyone sane anyway. And saying a Unix box is so screwed up it shouldn’t be used as a server in production ever, is saying a lot.
All OSX is for me is a pretty GUI over the shell of a Unix box that can be used to SSH into or run the AWS API on to manage Linux boxes and Windows servers via RDP. I wouldn’t let OSX do any heavy lifting or put it anywhere near a data center. It’s crater in ten minutes and be nearly unmanageable without weeks of custom code to do it.
Dav8or
Final Approach
denverpilot
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Aaaack! Help! I'm being crushed under a wall of words!!
I can switch to music if you like that better...
