Apple Lovers no longer allowed to have a optical drive

Actually, I can't blame them. Disc drives make heat, suck electrons, and break. Moreover, why let you use something for free when they can sell you something. Makes pretty good business sense.

All that said, compatible external disc drives are inexpensive.
 
I really have to wonder about the business models of companies that think they can force consumers to do things. Microsoft tries to do it too.
 
Palmpilot said:
I really have to wonder about the business models of companies that think they can force consumers to do things. Microsoft tries to do it too.
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Like USB when the first iMac came out? Like dropping the floppy drive? Like only having 21" and 27" (no 24") on the current all-in-one Mac line-up? That sure hurt 'em.
 
They're definitely going under. Computers without BluRay immediately cease all operations. ;)
 
We used a thumb drive to ISO Windows 7, Parallels and MS Office to the MacAir. Now I can use any hard drive I need or want. Say again why I need a optical drive?
 
Well, I'm a programmer and I work with computers in general a LOT so here's my take..

I can see why they did it. I have an optical drive in my old macbook and I have no need for it about 99% of the time, same with my desktop. The trouble is when I need it for that 1%, I need it. The other thing that's been removed from the macbooks anyway is an ethernet port- they're now wifi only. Again I've maybe plugged my laptop into the lan maybe twice in the past few years but when I needed that feature I needed it.

Macs have a consistently high build quality, while there are well built PCs it's hit and miss. And if you don't need to run any software that's windows only the mac OS is simply superior. It uses the hardware more efficiently, doesn't tend to get in your way like windows does, etc.

Windows is popular for reason- it's compatible with everything and just about everyone who has ever used a computer already knows how to use it. The backwards compatibility it gives with old software is a must for businesses. However, it's the fact that apple will simply drop an old component of the OS or hardware when it isn't needed 99% of the time that keeps the machines running 'lean and mean'.

So will my next machine be a mac? If money was no object, that would be a yes. But the lack of the ethernet port and optical drive combined with the price premium is probably going to be a deal breaker for me.
 
And you're thinking about buying an airplane? What's wrong with this picture?

cowman said:
Well, I'm a programmer and I work with computers in general a LOT so here's my take..

I can see why they did it. I have an optical drive in my old macbook and I have no need for it about 99% of the time, same with my desktop. The trouble is when I need it for that 1%, I need it. The other thing that's been removed from the macbooks anyway is an ethernet port- they're now wifi only. Again I've maybe plugged my laptop into the lan maybe twice in the past few years but when I needed that feature I needed it.

Macs have a consistently high build quality, while there are well built PCs it's hit and miss. And if you don't need to run any software that's windows only the mac OS is simply superior. It uses the hardware more efficiently, doesn't tend to get in your way like windows does, etc.

Windows is popular for reason- it's compatible with everything and just about everyone who has ever used a computer already knows how to use it. The backwards compatibility it gives with old software is a must for businesses. However, it's the fact that apple will simply drop an old component of the OS or hardware when it isn't needed 99% of the time that keeps the machines running 'lean and mean'.

So will my next machine be a mac? If money was no object, that would be a yes. But the lack of the ethernet port and optical drive combined with the price premium is probably going to be a deal breaker for me.
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I removed the optical drive from my MBP and put in a second hard drive in its place.

The drive caddy wasn't this brand, but there's a billion of them out there...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0058AH2US

I used the optical drive maybe three times? It's sitting here in the drawer and hasn't been used ever. I bought it an external enclosure just to make it operational instead of junk in a drawer.

Once OSX went to installing a bootable recovery partition, that killed my only possible need for an optical drive -- and I was already imaging the install discs to thumb drives at that point anyway.
 
Traket92X said:
Like USB when the first iMac came out? Like dropping the floppy drive? Like only having 21" and 27" (no 24") on the current all-in-one Mac line-up? That sure hurt 'em.
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I guess I'm just a Luddite! :)
 
Palmpilot said:
I really have to wonder about the business models of companies that think they can force consumers to do things. Microsoft tries to do it too.
Click to expand...

I have several issues with Apple but not with their business model. It is pretty darn solid. They're on track to be the first company with a trillion dollar market cap....

Actually I also hate it when they take away something I need 2-3% of the time too but not supporting dead parts does add to the reliability a lot so I get over it...
 
My biggest issue with this is the people out there that don't have a broadband connection. It will be difficult for people buying new Macs without an optical drive to get new software or watch movies. Apple is turning the iMac into an internet appliance that will be worthless without a broadband connection. I am sure lots of people in the country do not have a high sped connection. I also like to backup items I want to keep permanently, ie pictures, to a backup HDD and DVD disc for double protection. I do not want my stuff on a cloud and have to pay for it.

Also, the new iMac can only have new memory installed. It is designed not to be opened ever. Throw away machine.

And the hybrid drive they introduced is not new technology. They just changed the name. SSD and HDD drive hybrid has been around for a year or two now.

David
 
You can use an external as long as Apple doesn't disable the ability to use an external drive.

Broadband may get to be a real issue as more and more broadband providers work to cap data usage. It could get really expensive really fast if you download a few movies.
 
wsuffa said:
You can use an external as long as Apple doesn't disable the ability to use an external drive.
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Externals work fine other than they lock their DVD player against playing a DVD from an external. There are hacks.

Probably more driven by the recording industry than Apple. Who knows?

Easy fix? Load VLC. Done. Plays fine.
 
denverpilot said:
Externals work fine other than they lock their DVD player against playing a DVD from an external. There are hacks.

Probably more driven by the recording industry than Apple. Who knows?

Easy fix? Load VLC. Done. Plays fine.
Click to expand...

You mean Apple's OS blocks external DVD's?

Wow.

David
 
flhrci said:
You mean Apple's OS blocks external DVD's?

Wow.

David
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Not so much blocks, their player doesn't know the external drive exists. Probably to avoid crappy USB speeds and have to buffer.

Plenty of other players though, as mentioned. VLC is a better player than their cheesy player anyway.
 
Watching movies on DVD & Blu-Ray is obsolete. I can just download a 1080p movie off the Internet faster than you can get a physical medium in your hands.

Don't think I'm an Apple supporter either, my computers are all either IBM Thinkpads or Lenovo Thinkpads (T60, T61), my phone is an Android (HTC Evo D), and I don't own an iPad.
 
Yup.

I got a MacBook Pro with Retsyn, er, uh, Retina Display about a month ago. It's sweet - Thinner, lighter, and man that display is phenomenal! Hell, it almost even makes Windows look good. :D

I don't miss the optical drive. Yet, anyway. I haven't used the optical drive on the old machine in... Well, a REALLY long time. I think the only thing I ever did with it was to rip some DVD's.

Here are what I see as the potential uses for an optical drive, and why they're really no longer relevant for the most part:

1) Watching movies. Really, it felt to me like I was hardly started moving my movie collection to DVD when Blu-Ray came out. So, I've given up on movies on physical media - It's obsolete too fast. Between iTunes and Netflix, I can get pretty much anything I really want without having to go to the store, and without having to store the physical media somewhere. BIG improvement over DVD's and Blu-Ray.

2) Installing software. It's been a really long time since I installed something off a DVD. These days, software is sold mostly through the Internet, and especially so since the Mac App Store became operational a couple of years ago. Even the things that I've acquired outside the Mac App Store were downloaded items.

3) Backup. Manual backups really don't work well. Time Machine automated backups built into the Mac OS are the way to go, and really there isn't enough storage available on today's optical discs to do full backups on optical media. Hard drives are cheap. Better yet, NAS. My Time Capsule ensures that Time Machine will back up my laptop whenever I'm home with absolutely no intervention on my part. These days with "power nap" functionality, I don't even have to wake the computer up for it to back up automatically. Very well done.

So... I'm glad I don't have to carry the useless optical drive around any more. If I did need one, there's an external available. I doubt I'll need one for a long, long time though.
 
I use my MacBook for video projection at church. Speakers will often show up with a DVD they want me to play a clip from, or a CD they want to play a song from. If I had to carry an external drive around with me that would be mildly annoying. If I couldn't rip or play from the DVD drive, that would be a show stopper.
 
Some people are movie collectors. Some are not. Since I am, I'll take Blue-Ray anyday, over an internet source. They're hardly obsolete.

L.Adamson
 
L.Adamson said:
Some people are movie collectors. Some are not. Since I am, I'll take Blue-Ray anyday, over an internet source. They're hardly obsolete.

L.Adamson
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And when the internet connection goes down, the blu-ray discs still work! LOL

David
 
:stirpot:

Apple is really doing about the same thing as the robber barons: forcing folks into their ecosystem and using market power to crush the competition. The process extends to iTunes/Apple Store, which seeks to be THE content provider - by eliminating alternatives from their machines, Apple can drive more traffic to their store, increasing revenues. It's no wonder that A may end up being the first company to $1 trillion market cap.

"You can have any color as long as it's black".... "You can use any software/device as long as we allow you to"....

Much as Microsoft is lothed, it built it's business model on being compatible with as much "stuff" (hardware and software) as possible at a reasonable cost. Yes, it's caused virus and malware issues, but it certainly has permitted consumer choice of hardware & services. It's part of the way that MS "beat" the mainframe market, which was very closed.

The only bit of surprise here is that the anti-trust folks have chased MS, but have not spent much time going after A.

:stirpot:
 
wsuffa said:
You can use an external as long as Apple doesn't disable the ability to use an external drive.

Broadband may get to be a real issue as more and more broadband providers work to cap data usage. It could get really expensive really fast if you download a few movies.
Click to expand...

I use a Clear wifi hotspot $50 a month flat rate true unlimited data no throttle. I use it for Netflix on the iPad and much more.
 
There are issues with getting all your movies online, too.

I cut the cord about a year ago. Netflix has a decent collection of older TV series and movies available to stream, but it is by no means comprehensive. Shows and movies are also liable to be pulled at any moment (e.g. Stargate SG-1 grr..). There may be one or two newer movies, but don't count on it, and you can forget any current TV shows.

Amazon is much better at having current TV shows and movies, but it isn't complete either. We wanted to have a Halloween movie party and actually watch the original Halloween. No luck on either Netflix or Amazon, for some reason. Had to sign up for a free trial of Hulu Plus (which I'll immediately cancel, because it's pretty awful) in order to see it.

To really be able to watch the movies you want to, you either need to own the DVD / Blu-ray, or be able to rent the physical disk from Netflix (which is fairly comprehensive) or your local rental shop. Both options require you to be able to play the disk.
 
bluesky74656 said:
Had to sign up for a free trial of Hulu Plus (which I'll immediately cancel, because it's pretty awful)
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What, you don't like watching ads on top of ads and paying for it? :rofl:

What else don't you like about it? I briefly considered getting it just for The Daily Show, but I think I'll do something else for that...

To really be able to watch the movies you want to, you either need to own the DVD / Blu-ray, or be able to rent the physical disk from Netflix (which is fairly comprehensive) or your local rental shop. Both options require you to be able to play the disk.
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If it's so old you can't get it online, then it probably doesn't have a Blu-Ray, and DVD players are pretty cheap nowadays.

I'm looking at setting up my old unibody MacBook Pro as a media server, once I find a spare hard drive to put in place of the fried one (at least, that's what I think is wrong with it - And before you haters go nuts, it was a 3rd-party drive). First step will be to just get it running again and put my iTunes library on it for movies and TV shows (and I should be able to play those either via a direct connection or through the AppleTV). Next, I'll get a bluetooth keyboard and trackpad so I can get things like South Park or The Daily Show that are available for free on the web but not as easily accessible via an AppleTV. Finally, I'll get one of the EyeTV boxes from El Gato so that I can use it as a DVR.

And that should make me plenty unproductive. :D
 
flhrci said:
And when the internet connection goes down, the blu-ray discs still work! LOL
Click to expand...

I prefer to play movies/TV via a machine that's on the WiFi network and already has 'em downloaded if possible. That'll still work when the internet connection goes down too, at least until I run out of unplayed content. :thumbsup:
 
wsuffa said:
Much as Microsoft is lothed, it built it's business model on being compatible with as much "stuff" (hardware and software) as possible at a reasonable cost. Yes, it's caused virus and malware issues, but it certainly has permitted consumer choice of hardware & services.
Click to expand...

It's also the reason MS has such a tough job with Windows - They have to support EVERYTHING and it's pretty difficult. No wonder they're falling further behind Apple when it comes to modern OS features... :stirpot: :D
 
flyingcheesehead said:
What, you don't like watching ads on top of ads and paying for it? :rofl:

What else don't you like about it? I briefly considered getting it just for The Daily Show, but I think I'll do something else for that...
Click to expand...

Mainly what you said-- I'm paying to be able to watch shows with ads. Pretty awful.

Add on top of that the fact that most of what's on there is major network stuff, and I'm already paying TiVo for the privilege of recording that programming which is streamed free to me over the air, and the benefit of it would basically be the Daily Show and Colbert Report. IMHO not worth the additional $8/Month, especially if I still have to put up with commercial breaks that I can't even fast forward through!
 
Hulu just forced me to watch a 2 minute 26 second video before watching an episode of The Aviators. I only have 3 episodes left to watch then I will suspend my Hulu subscription. its ridiculous to pay for watching ads. Thankfully, they did not put in any more ads as part fo the deal.

David
 
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wsuffa said:
Apple is really doing about the same thing as the robber barons: forcing folks into their ecosystem and using market power to crush the competition.
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Heard this argument since the beginning of time.

Too bad there's no force involved at all, and buying their stuff and their "ecosystem" is a choice. It just doesn't hold water.

Oh wait, There's a guy here holding me at gunpoint to make me click "buy" on an iPad mini. Hahaha. Right.

(No, haven't bought one. Don't have plans to.)

It's all about the oldest of human emotions... jealousy. We Americans get testy when someone is "too successful". Normal.
 
denverpilot said:
Heard this argument since the beginning of time.

Too bad there's no force involved at all, and buying their stuff and their "ecosystem" is a choice. It just doesn't hold water.

Oh wait, There's a guy here holding me at gunpoint to make me click "buy" on an iPad mini. Hahaha. Right.

(No, haven't bought one. Don't have plans to.)

It's all about the oldest of human emotions... jealousy. We Americans get testy when someone is "too successful". Normal.
Click to expand...

I suggest you read a little bit about how the robber barons operated and made their fortunes. Back in the day, no one was "forcing" you to ride the railroad, buy oil, or use steel. But folks did, and the barons consolidated the industries by using strong-arm tactics to force competitors out. None of it happened overnight.

There's a fair amount of similarity between some of the tactics used then and some of the tactics used by Apple. Take, for example, the deal that was cut between book publishers and Apple that ended up forcing prices up on Amazon and eventually became subject of investigation by DOJ.

I am frankly glad that they are successful, but I'm more concerned about preserving choice & flexibility for the user. What we need is a Carterfone decision....
 
Why is this even news? I've been carrying around optical disc-less notebooks and tabletpcs since 2003. Oh right. Put Apple in the title to drive traffic to your site.

Whatever. I'll continue to pack optical drives on my main desktop. I couldn't care less what Apple does, but in this case they do have a point about Blu-Ray. If you're installing a Blu-ray drive and think you can just watch movies think again. You need to have the proper HDMI or DVI monitor cabling (to enforce DRM) and codec software as well as the drive. It's just super onerous to set up yourself. Of course, if you buy a computer from a manufacturer they'll probably bundle 3rd party software for you.
 
steamee said:
Why is this even news? I've been carrying around optical disc-less notebooks and tabletpcs since 2003. Oh right. Put Apple in the title to drive traffic to your site.

Whatever. I'll continue to pack optical drives on my main desktop. I couldn't care less what Apple does, but in this case they do have a point about Blu-Ray. If you're installing a Blu-ray drive and think you can just watch movies think again. You need to have the proper HDMI or DVI monitor cabling (to enforce DRM) and codec software as well as the drive. It's just super onerous to set up yourself. Of course, if you buy a computer from a manufacturer they'll probably bundle 3rd party software for you.
Click to expand...

Not that hard to set up. Have graphics card with hdmi, monitor and a tv with hdmi and hdmi cable. Blu-ray drive came with cyber link blu-ray software. Check,check,check and check. No issues. And I built my PC with they options I wanted, not what I was told I could have. To each his own.....

Easy to do.

David
 
wsuffa said:
I am frankly glad that they are successful, but I'm more concerned about preserving choice & flexibility for the user. What we need is a Carterfone decision....
Click to expand...

Is that Judge Greene's Bell breakup fiasco? I and another friend in the industry predicted that one... Ma Bell was broken up and reformed into basically three companies that still hold the vast majority of their "markets". Nothing really changed. Just as monopolistic as before, except now the three mega-companies have all services and the system isn't broken up by service type (local, long-distance, data, etc.) it's just divisions of the three shell companies. You have a "choice" now of the same price from all three. Heh. (The collapse into three didn't fully complete, because a judge blocked the AT&T/T-Mobile merger. Sprint/Nextel was approved though, hmm... Same thing.)

Telco got better at implementing new tech, but costs to the consumer have risen far faster than inflation across the board on all products, including the ubiquitous POTS line, which is nearly dead now. Who'd pay $40/month plus six different federal taxes (rural broadband fees, 911 fees, etc.) for a POTS line?

It's still a natural monopoly. And Cable jumped into the game, but they're worse monopolies than telco even in the Bell System days. Same high prices, too.

So.... the breakup just created three huge colluding companies who price fix, by following each other's pricing to the letter. VZ announces "share plans", AT&T (really Southwestern Bell, the engineering laughingstock of the original Bell System who bought the AT&T brand name) follows suit a month later, same price within $5 or so, nationwide. Shopping the popular products does no good, they're all about the same price. All people shop is mobile network coverage, not price.

The big winners were the people who laid the fiber everywhere. Anchutz along the railroad right of ways he bought for next to nothing, Global Crossing with their broom closet in an office building in Bermuda as "Corporate HQ" to avoid taxes, etc.
 
Forgot the other part...

Learn about robber-barrons? You think we got rid of them? LOL! Awesome. The media brainwashing is working. You're not going to compete with a modern robber-baron!

This country's systems are specifically *designed* to support and maintain robber-barrons. Most folks are just trying to figure out how to become one.

Step one is realizing what George Calin said was right. "It's a big club, and you're not in it."

WARNING: Language. Don't start the video if you can't handle George's language...


An example... Copyright... Should die when the individual dies. Disney makes a bloody fortune off of dead people's stuff, for example. They even get non-permanent permanent TFRs over their businesses. Huge power. And they paid $4,000,000,000 for George Lucas' "little" movie company. They hire artists and pay them a fraction of what the art makes them now. Normal American "iconic" business.

Just one example. There's tons. Most are codified in things called "law".

Lawyers spend lifetimes making sure the power stays with those who have the means to pay them. This is not news. Most folks don't state it that way, but that's the nitty gritty of it.

You can't become Walt Disney today, if you tried. You think you'd be able to build a cartoon company into something powerful enough to request permanent TFRs over their business facilities?? Right.

And you sure as heck can't start a phone company big enough to compete with the Big Three (Four).

Going to start the next big Football, Baseball, or other sports league? Haha. Even college games are just NCAA maintaining a nice place to live for their slaves (literally, the kids can't be paid! Brilliant!) while they get an "education". That whole game is nothing but recruiting fresh meat every year. Does it make the kids who get recruited lives better? Sure! But they're not being handed tenure at graduation. See ya. Hope the NFL picks you up! :)

America *loves* our robber-barrons. That isn't going to change. One guy in a million figures out how to become one.

Did you know the government tried to strip Henry Ford of his business because they claimed he wasn't smart enough to run such a large successful powerful organization by himself after he built it? They held Congressional hearings about whether or not Ford Motor Company could remain under his control? He wasn't part of the in crowd then, you see.

When they tried to nail down his knowledge of various business topics, he said he had a telephone, a relatively new technology... where he could call any expert on anything and ASK them. Holy cow... What a game changer!

Henry Ford got to remain in charge of his own business, because he had a phone. Seriously.

And that loops back around to the phone monopoly. Cool how it all interrelates, isn't it?

Sooooo... Apple is the modern boogieman. Big whoop. They're the so-called robber-barons. Fine.

We used the stuff the Rockefeller built, and we'll use the stuff that Apple built.

If you think they're bad, wait for the next one. And the one after that. And after that. We will keep making more robber-barons... That's what we do! (I have no problem with that. Barron away, barrons. I doubt I'll be invited to the party.)
 
denverpilot said:
Telco got better at implementing new tech, but costs to the consumer have risen far faster than inflation across the board on all products, including the ubiquitous POTS line, which is nearly dead now. Who'd pay $40/month plus six different federal taxes (rural broadband fees, 911 fees, etc.) for a POTS line?
Click to expand...

I do, because when the power goes out for an extended time (it has three times where I live, and just ask the folks in NJ about now) the POTS line still works. No batteries needed (other than the central office). But, I will admit I'm having thoughts about dumping it. Maybe, sometime...
 
Actually, the real robber barons lived along the Rhine and other European rivers and collected "tolls" on anyone who transited said rivers. Collected at sword point of course. In that case the rivers were indeed the only means of commerce.

Still a non issue, since inexpensive external disc players can easily be added to any Mac. The only thing I've ever used discs for it software installation.
 
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